30-Yard Challenge

[Florida_Man]

Nice shooting and very good looking rifle

I'm looking forward to my Monday rifle delivery. I might have to set up a Milwaukee work light to shoot a target after work. Most likely not shooting it until Tuesday.

 

[EPG]

Shot some 30 Yard Challenge cards at 40 yards today - using Prophet Performance V1 with .22 polygonal barrel.

Used MRDs @ 900-905 fps for the 1st two cards and shot 178 5X and 171 3X. I was hungover from too much bourbon, but I was surprised at the low scores.

I then immediately shot two groups @ 40 yards and they were great - .12” center to center for 5 of 6 shots - but one shot dropped low (even though it had the highest velocity of the 6 shots). So the MRDs were a bit inconsistent at 40 yards, even though they grouped excellent.

For a change I tried 18.13g with the same tune - they shot 1,012-1,013 fps - very tight velocity spread and the 5-shot group was .14” c-t-c (awesome)

So I shot 2 TYC cards at 40 yards using the FX 18.13s at 1,013 fps…

… and shot 193 9X and 189 10X !

This is the 2nd rifle (Wolverine is the other) where it’s shot EXTREMELY accurately with 18.13g pellets at over 1,000 fps. Both the Wolverine and the Prophet have Lothar Walther barrels with polygonal rifling.

Everything you read tells you to keep velocity around 880fps for best accuracy. However, I’m finding that Lothar Walther polygonal rifling barrels seem to be an exception to this rule - they shoot VERY well at higher velocities. At least that’s been my experience - and I’ve showed you the results.

193 9X at 40 yards! At this distance, the 6x24 Midas Tac is just barely enough scope at 24X! To give you some perspective, the center dot on a Midas Tac is very small - but at 40 yards and 24X, the dot almost completely covers the 10 ring on the Thirty Yard Challenge card.

-Ed

 

[Florida_Man]

Great shooting and great information. My rifle showed up early today. Unfortunately it was raining when UPS arrived with it and hasn’t stopped. My Notos arrived also and I shot it out my back window to a target 18 yards away. I am very happy with it. Cleaning the barrel without a straw did make things take 5x as long.

 

[JimD]

Interesting. I have not changed the tune of my P35-22 other than to get the hammer spring matched to the regulator. The hammer spring is just slightly less than the force that gives the maximum velocity. I have had bad previous experience when the hammer spring was well below the force that produces maximum velocity (ES was high and first shot was high or low, don't remember which). Anyway, that gives me about 830 fps on the 21 grain Baracudas it likes but I got good results with 18 grain JSBs but the groups were a little bigger at 35 yards. About the same at 25 and 30. Velocity of the 18s was at least 900 fps.

The comments on staying to 880 or so on velocity often exclude JSB redesigns in the comments. Ted from Ted's Holdover also stated that higher velocity is undesirable for windy conditions. My Avenger shoots FX 25 grains at about 930 fps and is quite accurate to 35 yards. The one time I shot it at 100 yards groups were around 3 inches but it was pretty windy.

 

[Florida_Man]

Not looking good today. I hope they cancel our range day tomorrow at work, our range will be under water.
2.5" since Friday and its raining the hardest now.




teaser

 

[EPG]

Still shooting the 30 Yard Challenge at 40 yards…
Yesterday, I shot:
189 10X
193 9X

With RTI Prophet Performance .22 LR - shooting FX 18.13g @ 1,013fps

Today, I tried my other Prophet Performance .25 caliber LR - shooting FX 25.4g @ 915fps and 875fps - best card was 182 5X. I have not yet found the right “tune” for the .25 caliber. It groups tight at 40, but doesn’t score near 190 yet.

My last two cards of today I shot the Daystate Wolverine R HP .22 at 40 yards:
189 9X
197 12X (!)

Using the usual FX/JSB 18.13g that I feed the Wolverine - 1,025 fps.

DAMN!! I was not expecting to shoot a 197 at 40 yards - at least not yet. Wolverine is absolutely amazing shooting 18.13s at that high velocity.

 

[EPG]

Was shooting this challenge at 40 yards today - even tried the .177 Dreamline at 40 yds. It was too breezy for .177 - especially for the 2nd half of the card - shot a 180 6X.

So then I rezeroed the Dreamline at 30 yards (4 shots to zero) and shot my 1st “Master’s Card” - notice that I didn’t even shoot any sighters - 20 straight shots. I was thinking “hey, maybe a Master’s 200” until Target pair #7 - felt myself pull that one slightly. Light was getting dimmer (see photo) and the breeze died down from earlier in the day and…

196 16X !! I’m really happy with that for my 1st time shooting a Master’s Thirty Yard Challenge card.

For fellow Dreamline users, my reg is 95 bar and pellet velocity is 907.2 fps. This Dreamline has been awesome shooting 10.3g at about 905 fps.

-Ed

 

[JimD]

Ed,

Interesting "masters" target. Have you posted a pdf? I've shot a few "flyswatter challenge" targets and I like the sighters on it.

Jim

 

[EPG]

---

Official “Masters” 30 Yard Challenge Target​

---

PDF for download below.

This target is the same as the normal 30 Yard Challenge target - except that you only have 20 targets… so ALL shots count.

I’ll build / post a Masters Target Scoreboard if enough folks are interested…

… you know beerthief is loading up those 70 year old pellets into his SSP as soon as I post this, lol…

Have fun,

-Ed

​

View attachment 30-Yard Challenge Master Class Target.pdf

 

[EPG]

For RTI Prophet Performance V1 .25 LR shooters…tuning data

As you know, I’ve been shooting the 30 Yard Challenge target at 40 yards (120.69 feet) with some of my higher powered rifles. I’m off from work this week, weather is outstanding- so motorcycle and shooting fun!

I got serious about dialing in the .25 Prophet Performance today…

Tuning method and data: I am using the stock RTI V1 hammer (36.5 grams) and stock hammer spring - WITHOUT the delrin spring guide spacer. The spacer is not necessary to achieve most any velocity - and removing it makes cocking nicer as well as reducing pressure on the trigger sear - making the trigger pull lighter.

I have my reg pressure at exactly 100 bar (see picture). At this reg pressure my max velocity with the 25.4g .25 pellets is 950 fps. I then dialed my hammer spring preload down until velocity was 910-911 fps. It was very stable at this velocity through 10 shots.

910/950 = 96% - this is dead in the middle of the classic 95-97% tune suggested for PCP rifles.

Immediately I saw improved results shooting the .25 caliber Prophet at 40 yards in the challenge.

First card was 189 7X, second card was 193 12X. I was actually still zeroing the Sightron SIII ED 36x scope while shooting the first couple rows of the 189 card.

I’m excited about 193 12X at 40 yards. Also, efficiency with this tune is excellent, noise level is low, trigger and cocking lighter.

You can see that I’m shooting this accurately from a less than stable table and chair situation, lol - it just adds to the “Challenge”.

Hope this tuning info helps others shooting a .25 caliber Prophet Performance.

-Ed

 

[ThomasT]

For RTI Prophet Performance V1 .25 LR shooters…tuning data

As you know, I’ve been shooting the 30 Yard Challenge target at 40 yards (120.69 feet) with some of my higher powered rifles. I’m off from work this week, weather is outstanding- so motorcycle and shooting fun!

I got serious about dialing in the .25 Prophet Performance today…

Tuning method and data: I am using the stock RTI V1 hammer (36.5 grams) and stock hammer spring - WITHOUT the delrin spring guide spacer. The spacer is not necessary to achieve most any velocity - and removing it makes cocking nicer as well as reducing pressure on the trigger sear - making the trigger pull lighter.

I have my reg pressure at exactly 100 bar (see picture). At this reg pressure my max velocity with the 25.4g .25 pellets is 950 fps. I then dialed my hammer spring preload down until velocity was 910-911 fps. It was very stable at this velocity through 10 shots.

910/950 = 96% - this is dead in the middle of the classic 95-97% tune suggested for PCP rifles.

Immediately I saw improved results shooting the .25 caliber Prophet at 40 yards in the challenge.

First card was 189 7X, second card was 193 12X. I was actually still zeroing the Sightron SIII ED 36x scope while shooting the first couple rows of the 189 card.

I’m excited about 193 12X at 40 yards. Also, efficiency with this tune is excellent, noise level is low, trigger and cocking lighter.

You can see that I’m shooting this accurately from a less than stable table and chair situation, lol - it just adds to the “Challenge”.

Hope this tuning info helps others shooting a .25 caliber Prophet Performance.

-Ed

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Hello @EPG

Good information to share. You must be one heck of a marksman to shoot such great targets off of that "ironing board" . I wish we lived closer so that I could loan you one of my heavy duty wood bench rest. You probably could shoot 200's at 50-yards .

ThomasT

 

[EPG]

Hello @EPG

Good information to share. You must be one heck of a marksman to shoot such great targets off of that "ironing board" . I wish we lived closer so that I could loan you one of my heavy duty wood bench rest. You probably could shoot 200's at 50-yards .

ThomasT

Well Thomas, its all I really know. The “ironing board” top vibrates pretty bad when you release a shot, but it doesn’t seem to effect accuracy - I’m shooting scores most every card that I’m happy with. Perhaps the ironing board is actually training me to be a better shooter as I must be extremely still and not put any pressure on the rifle other than pulling the trigger straight back - or the board moves.

The bigger issue for me is the chair. As you can see, it sits crooked on the unlevel ground and I’m always stacking more pillows and towels to get my eyeline to the scope where it feels correct.

Despite the “obstacles” I’m having a blast with my new airgunning hobby. I’m relentless and unafraid - I tore down my 2nd Prophet moments ago, did a quick polish of the hammer and hammer spring, dropped reg pressure to 95 bar, got rid of delrin spacer, etc. All because the tune I put on my other Prophet today - 96% tune - felt so much better than the tune I had on this Prophet (that I recently shot 193 at 40 yards with). I’m learning all the time - the data from the 30 Yard Challenge is so valuable to making adjustments to improve.

For example, When tuning Prophet #2, I was adjusting velocity constantly and shooting at a white spot at 30 yards while turning allen keys and watching chrono readouts. I wasn’t “super aiming” and velocity varied from 865fps to 975 fps… below is the group - Despite the massive velocity swings - I’m aiming and holding pretty good, lol - that’s like 25 shots while adjusting and chronoing…

-Ed

 

[JimD]

Ed, I shoot from an adjustable height stool sold at Harbor Freight for use doing car repairs.

Your Prophet tune information is interesting. You are pretty close to the hammer spring setting that gives you maximum velocity, that is what I tune to too. On my Avenger, it actually shoots a little better with about 1/4 turn more hammer spring than the maximum velocity point. On my P35s, I have gotten lower first shot velocity on the 25 with too much hammer spring and on the 22 with a little less than the maximum velocity setting. You might want to verify your first shot after the gun has been sitting to be sure that isn't happening on your prophet. On it's current tune, my P35-22 shot 16 fps low on the first shot on a 24 shot string (shooting a 30 yard challenge target) but the 23 following shots had an ES below 6 with a std deviation below 2. I've tested shorter strings since and the first shot was less than 10 fps low so I hope the regulator is getting used to the new hammer spring setting. I always go a little above and below the HS setting that gives maximum velocity checking accuracy for a "sweet spot".

 

[beerthief]

Really not sure how my FWB 600 would do @ 40 yards ,(if it will go that far ?) i will try after my deck is finished another week i think .

 

[EPG]

Ed, I shoot from an adjustable height stool sold at Harbor Freight for use doing car repairs.

Your Prophet tune information is interesting. You are pretty close to the hammer spring setting that gives you maximum velocity, that is what I tune to too. On my Avenger, it actually shoots a little better with about 1/4 turn more hammer spring than the maximum velocity point. On my P35s, I have gotten lower first shot velocity on the 25 with too much hammer spring and on the 22 with a little less than the maximum velocity setting. You might want to verify your first shot after the gun has been sitting to be sure that isn't happening on your prophet. On it's current tune, my P35-22 shot 16 fps low on the first shot on a 24 shot string (shooting a 30 yard challenge target) but the 23 following shots had an ES below 6 with a std deviation below 2. I've tested shorter strings since and the first shot was less than 10 fps low so I hope the regulator is getting used to the new hammer spring setting. I always go a little above and below the HS setting that gives maximum velocity checking accuracy for a "sweet spot".

Hi Jim,

I’ll have to test the 1st shot out. I almost always dry fire one or two shots to clear the regulator and let it refill the reg after the rifle has been sitting overnight. I don’t think any of these regulators, including Humas, keep a perfect 1st shot for days. I feel my unregulated rifles have more reliable 1st shots than my regulated rifles.

So you are tuning closer to 98-99% of max velocity with your hammer springs… I may give that a try if this 96% isn’t working as well as I’d like. Initial results at 96% were very promising.

It’s become apparent that us Thirty Yard Challenge shooters are “hypertuning” in order to get our rifles to be consistent 190+ (and even 195+) performers…

…as an example, the picture above of the single hole 30 yard group while tuning is about the size of a dime for 25 shots. It has a velocity spread of about 120fps. Many guys would be happy with that “group” of 25 shots at 30 yards, yet we know that a dime covers 1/2 of the 7 ring on the 30 Yard Challenge target - and we don’t like 7s and 8s, lol.

Did you get your new barrel yet?

-Ed

 

[JimD]

Still waiting on the new barrel for my P35-25. I ordered it in April and Krale has received at least a couple shipments from SPA since then but my barrel was not included. The gun is useful for plinking and smacking squirrels with it's current barrel but doesn't do target work very well (155 30 yard challenge). The crown is messed up and it looks like somebody drilled out about an inch of the rifling presumably trying to fix it. Pretty messed up. I like my P35s but SPA has a bad reputation for parts for a reason, I think. I don't have the arsenal you have, Ed, but it's nice to have 4 other guns to mess with for targets. Mostly practicing from field positions to get better at smacking squirrels at the moment. Missed a couple shots on squirrels.

 

[EPG]

Vacation day #3 - it’s 78 degrees and sunny in October in Connecticut!! Weather has been like this all week - very mild breezes to.

Taking you inside my airgun world today, lol. Cleaned the Dreamline barrel, filled to 210 bar (reg pressure is 95-97 according to gauge) and shot 3 Masters cards…

192 11X (reg 210 to 170)
198 15X (reg 170 to 140)
196 13X (reg 140 to 112)

You will note I took a bunch of sighters on 1st 192 card, as barrel needed a few shots to settle after cleaning with Patchworm pull through. Only took 1 sighter on the 198 and 196 cards. The 198 is my new high score on the Masters card - I’ve only shot about 6 of them - all with Dreamline.

Tuning data for Dreamline users:
Reg at 95-97 bar shooting the FX 10.3g pellets at 905 fps. I’ve polished the trigger and replaced the trigger spring - breaks at 6 ounces now.
“Barrel” has a carbon fiber FX sleeve on it - not bonded. Only use one of the FX barrel centering disks inside the shroud - out near the muzzle end - use painters tape on either side of it to hold it in place so that it doesn’t move when removing or installing shroud.
I’ve polished the hammer and hammer spring- to reduce friction as much as possible, enhancing consistency.

Counting sighters I took 85 shots over the 3 cards - if you fill to 230 bar you will get over 100 shots with this tune - not bad for a tube rifle.

Pretty stock Dreamline by my standards, lol - just a bit of polishing and fixing the goofy FX trigger.

I have the .22 Dreamline barrel kit (it actually was a .22 originally) - I may try this tune exactly as is - just swap on the .22 barrel and probe - see if it still shoots 195+ on Masters cards.

So my girl shot a couple pictures of me shooting, sun shining, trees turning colors… and target on pizza box - this is my backyard airgun world. I could go to my brother’s house and shoot 100 yards, but 100 yard “tunes” feel so much less “elegant” than 30 and 40 yard tunes.

-Ed

 

[ThomasT]

Hello @EPG

That 198 score on the Masters looking mighty good .

ThomasT

 

[EPG]

Further dialing in my 96% tune on RTI Prophet V1 .22 LR…

Today: Reduced reg pressure from 95 to 90 bar. Also reduced trigger pull weight to 3.5 ounces.

Paper plate shows groups at 40 yards - slightly breezer today. My Chinese clamp on chrono won’t fit over Huma Mod 40 moderator, so I tested with Huma Mod 30. When I decided on 900-902 fps, I switched to Huma Mod 40 for final 10 shot group. Most all groups (7 shot) were 1/2” - except 920 fps. It grouped 5 really tight but threw a couple “flyers” if you want to call them that. The 2 that went left out of final 10-shot group were likely due a bit to breeze.

So how does a rifle grouping 1/2” do on a 40-Yard Masters Card (lol)…

… shot 184 6X - not bad as its a Masters Card at 40 - no mulligans.

I noticed I was getting better as the card went along, getting used to the hold and trigger on Prophet. I regret letting them sit so much this summer with 100 yard tunes on them, I won’t do that again - something about the Prophet just suits me - love shooting these rifles.

Getting better on 2nd 40-Yard Masters Card - 188 8X.

-Ed

 

[beerthief]

Further dialing in my 96% tune on RTI Prophet V1 .22 LR…

Today: Reduced reg pressure from 95 to 90 bar. Also reduced trigger pull weight to 3.5 ounces.

Paper plate shows groups at 40 yards - slightly breezer today. My Chinese clamp on chrono won’t fit over Huma Mod 40 moderator, so I tested with Huma Mod 30. When I decided on 900-902 fps, I switched to Huma Mod 40 for final 10 shot group. Most all groups (7 shot) were 1/2” - except 920 fps. It grouped 5 really tight but threw a couple “flyers” if you want to call them that. The 2 that went left out of final 10-shot group were likely due a bit to breeze.

So how does a rifle grouping 1/2” do on a 40-Yard Masters Card (lol)…

… shot 184 6X - not bad as its a Masters Card at 40 - no mulligans.

I noticed I was getting better as the card went along, getting used to the hold and trigger on Prophet. I regret letting them sit so much this summer with 100 yard tunes on them, I won’t do that again - something about the Prophet just suits me - love shooting these rifles.

-Ed

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very nice shooting ,outside too !