30-Yard Challenge

[EPG]

TYC Shooters,

It IS possible to shoot 190+ with a 177 at 40 Yards.

I submit both of these cards for the 40 Leaderboards:
191-7X for the 40-Masters
191-10X for the 40-Challenge

Conditions got to be about the best I’ve seen here in weeks – in terms of wind (see pic of my finally still “flags”). So I ran out and shot the 40-Masters card – hoping to break 190…

…when I did, I ran back in and grabbed a 40-Challenge card – hoping to break 190 for the Challenge leaderboard as well. Mission accomplished.

I will say that I could do better with one of my Sightron 36x or 45x scopes. The 24x Midas Tac is not quite enough magnification to really be precise on your holds on this tiny target at 40 yards.

I also hurried the 40-Challenge card because light was fading. For example, I deliberately held too high on the two #1 Targets because I didn’t think I had enough daylight time left to shoot more sighters.

You will note the horrendous sighters on the 40-Masters card. Well, I had not left the rifle/scope outside long enough to adapt to the 45F temperature.

I wound up leaving the rifle for 10 minutes more before starting the card – and I shot a few more sighters on some dots I drew on the cardboard. I think this is important info for cold weather shooters – you CANNOT drag your rifle from 68F inside temps to 40F outside temps and immediately start target shooting. PCPs seem to need time to adapt to the temperature before they start performing as expected.

I’m super happy with these results today – didn’t think .177 would break 190 at 40 yards – but this 13.4g pellet seems to be a game changer for little .177.

-Ed

 

[tommyb]

When we change the hammer spring setting we may change velocity but we will change the harmonics of the shot. I don't think the velocity change is as significant to accuracy as the harmonics of the gun changing.

Geez Jim - This would now explain why all that tuning ( I.e., turning my HW100 HST up and down ) didn’t improve my accuracy with the 30y targets. Now I feel better.

 

[EPG]

Geez Jim - This would now explain why all that tuning ( I.e., turning my HW100 HST up and down ) didn’t improve my accuracy with the 30y targets. Now I feel better.

Jim & Tommy,

Yep, it could be more harmonics and turbulence as the pellet leaves the barrel - more than the actual velocity.

In any case, adjusting the hammer spring can dial in the best harmonics and overall calmness of the shot cycle.

It makes sense what Jim says cause I’ve had unregulated rifles that were super accurate across a velocity spread of 50fps - shooting from full fill across entire bell curve. So velocity isn’t the only thing impacting pellet accuracy when you adjust hammer spring preload.

-Ed

 

[tommyb]

Jim & Tommy,

Yep, it could be more harmonics and turbulence as the pellet leaves the barrel - more than the actual velocity.

In any case, adjusting the hammer spring can dial in the best harmonics and overall calmness of the shot cycle.

It makes sense what Jim says cause I’ve had unregulated rifles that were super accurate across a velocity spread of 50fps - shooting from full fill across entire bell curve. So velocity isn’t the only thing impacting pellet accuracy when you adjust hammer spring preload.

-Ed

"It makes sense what Jim says cause I’ve had unregulated rifles that were super accurate across a velocity spread of 50fps - shooting from full fill across entire bell curve. So velocity isn’t the only thing impacting pellet accuracy when you adjust hammer spring preload."

It makes sense, as I have noticed that my HW100 was equally accurate from 770 FPS to even as high as 850 FPS at 30 yards. I am sure at 50Y, the pellets would have needed more oomph!

 

[JimD]

I haven't shot a target yet to prove it but I think my retuned P35-25 is more accurate now. But it had a lot of room for improvement (155 score). The velocity with the same 20 grain pellet is too high now (about 1000 fps) but it likes JSB 33.95s. They are only going about 800 fps versus the 20 grain at the previous tune going 870. 49 fpe now versus previous 32 fpe. But the gun seems to like the new tune better. I need to shoot a few targets with it and then maybe re-tune the P35-177 and see if I can get it to shoot a little better. I will probably decrease velocity slightly. I think guns definitely prefer certain hammer spring settings but I think they probably also like different regulator settings more than others. My P35-25's increase in power was mainly installation of a larger plenum, the hammer spring is too weak to support turning the regulator up much (I tried). It's at about 135 bar. Working on a new stock for the 25 too - its just a cosmetic change.

 

[JimD]

I was bored and curious this morning so I shot a target, just one, with my retuned P35-25. Please don't add this to the spreadsheet, Ed. Both these targets were not my best shooting and both were shot with the Primary Arms 4-14X scope this gun normally wears. With my eyes, I know putting a higher power scope on will help. But it is a reasonably before and after re-tuning example in my opinion. I was surprised with the difference. I ordered a new barrel because of results like that 155 target. It is not just the score, you can see on the "before" target several shots that were barely a 5. There was none of that on the "after". I need to get serious, strap on my Vector 8-32 and see what this gun can now do. I'm sure I can get it into the 180s, maybe even low 190s. Quite a difference from just adding a plenum and turning up the regulator a bit. Makes me want to "tweak" the tune of the P35-177 too.

 

[EPG]

I was bored and curious this morning so I shot a target, just one, with my retuned P35-25. Please don't add this to the spreadsheet, Ed. Both these targets were not my best shooting and both were shot with the Primary Arms 4-14X scope this gun normally wears. With my eyes, I know putting a higher power scope on will help. But it is a reasonably before and after re-tuning example in my opinion. I was surprised with the difference. I ordered a new barrel because of results like that 155 target. It is not just the score, you can see on the "before" target several shots that were barely a 5. There was none of that on the "after". I need to get serious, strap on my Vector 8-32 and see what this gun can now do. I'm sure I can get it into the 180s, maybe even low 190s. Quite a difference from just adding a plenum and turning up the regulator a bit. Makes me want to "tweak" the tune of the P35-177 too.

View attachment 412580

That looks 1,000 times better JimmyD - the vertical dispersion target to target looks really nice now. Definitely a 190 score rifle with a proper scope magnification.

Nice work on the retune !

 

[EPG]

I shot two cards today. It was 33F and started snowing on me during the session. It was breezy, but reasonable to shoot.

I used FX Dreamline PowerPup .22 (500mm) with FX 18.13g.

40 Yard Masters: 185 4X (five 8s, no 7s)
40 Yard Challenge: 183 5X (three 8s, one 7)

Pretty decent in the conditions.

Then this showed up - impulse purchase from AGN buddy - same AGN friend who sold me the Wolverine R HP.

Gave me a good deal. Its a .22 FX Crown “Super” Continuum, lol - as it has 380, 500 and 700mm barrels in the deal. He had never mounted the 700 - even has a carbon liner for the 700.

Never owned a Crown. He never touches the delivered settings. You guys know me, I’ll be taking this apart and making it better - after some initial shooting to “”baseline” it. It’s pretty. 700mm barrel will look ridiculous its so long, lol.

-Ed

 

[NAProf]

I shot two cards today. It was 33F and started snowing on me during the session. It was breezy, but reasonable to shoot.

I used FX Dreamline PowerPup .22 (500mm) with FX 18.13g.

40 Yard Masters: 185 4X (five 8s, no 7s)
40 Yard Challenge: 183 5X (three 8s, one 7)

Pretty decent in the conditions.

Then this showed up - impulse purchase from AGN buddy - same AGN friend who sold me the Wolverine R HP.

Gave me a good deal. Its a .22 FX Crown “Super” Continuum, lol - as it has 380, 500 and 700mm barrels in the deal. He had never mounted the 700 - even has a carbon liner for the 700.

Never owned a Crown. He never touches the delivered settings. You guys know me, I’ll be taking this apart and making it better - after some initial shooting to “”baseline” it. It’s pretty. 700mm barrel will look ridiculous its so long, lol.

-Ed

View attachment 412968

Welcome to the Crown Addicts Club!

Beautiful rifle! I think it looks best with the 380mm barrel, but my 500mm barrel seems to shoot just a bit better. Don't have a 700mm , but I think it was two years ago a fellow won the EBR shooting a 700mm Crown in .22 (with Saber Tactical stock). If you are interested, I have a ton of info on the Crown, including a 3D CAD model of the block I am constructing.

Congats again!

Cheers,
Greg

 

[JimD]

Congratulations on the Crown! I was thinking of one when I got my first P35. Since I shoot from my left shoulder most FXs do not work but I was pretty sure the Crown would. Seems like a great gun.

 

[EPG]

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Leaderboard Update​

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Hi Gentlemen,

TYC Leaderboard Updates as of December 6th:

30-Yard Challenge Submissions:

NAProf – 200 17X with his FX Crown MkII .177 (11/19)

EPG – 198 12X with his RTI Prophet Performance .177 (11/13)

Florida_Man 197 10X with his Daystate Huntsman Revere .177 (11/27)


30-Yard Masters Card:

mreynolds – 200 17X with his Mac-1 USFT .22 (11/13)

EPG – 196 14X with his RTI Prophet Performance .177 (12/1)

TommyB – 191 10X with his FX Royale 400 .22 (11/12)

TommyB – 190 8X with his Weihrauch HW100 .22 (11/13)


40-Yard Challenge Card:

EPG – 191 10X with his RTI Prophet Performance .177 (12/2)

EPG – 183 5X with his FX Dreamline Power Pup .22 (12/6)


40-Yard Masters Card:

EPG – 191 7X with his RTI Prophet Performance .177 (12/2)

TommyB – 185 7X with his FX Royale 400 .22 (11/13)

EPG – 185 4X with his FX Dreamline Power Pup .22 (12/6)


Notable:

· Congratulations to mreynolds for his incredible 200 17X 30-Masters Card !

· Congratulations to NAProf for his outstanding 200 17X 30-Challenge Card !

Awesome shooting by all !!

I will eventually create a Hall of Aim for 30-Masters… and maybe even 40-Challenge and 40-Masters if we can get a 200 at 40, lol.

-Ed

 

[tommyb]

I shot 40Y and 30Y Master Cards today.

I started at 40Y with the HW100 .22 shooting the JTS 18.1 at 844 FPS, with an ES of 20 after 13 shots from a full fill. My three 40Y Master cards were a joke. A 171, 179, and a 180-5X. Boy, is that 10 ring small at 40 yards! Does not take much to hit 6's, 7's, 8;s - basically very few 10's. Wind was nil when I set up, and then in around 30 minutes it picked up to 3-5 mph. I can't shoot these 40Y Masters cards in wind. Not even sure I can shoot them in no wind!

Also shot two 30Y Master Cards this past week, which I will submit here. Slight improvement only on both.

 

[EPG]

I shot 40Y and 30Y Master Cards today.

I started at 40Y with the HW100 .22 shooting the JTS 18.1 at 844 FPS, with an ES of 20 after 13 shots from a full fill. My three 40Y Master cards were a joke. A 171, 179, and a 180-5X. Boy, is that 10 ring small at 40 yards! Does not take much to hit 6's, 7's, 8;s - basically very few 10's. Wind was nil when I set up, and then in around 30 minutes it picked up to 3-5 mph. I can't shoot these 40Y Masters cards in wind. Not even sure I can shoot them in no wind!

Also shot two 30Y Master Cards this past week, which I will submit here. Slight improvement only on both.

Nice shooting with the Weihrauch and the Royale Tommy !

Nothing bad about a 180 score at 40 yards. You need a 32x scope or better to really see the holds clearly.

As you stated, breeze impact is magnified at 40. Its a great Challenge.

Look at your 180 card - those holes are darn close to the center at 40 yards - it’s amazing how well we shoot these pellet rifles.

 

[EPG]

Hi TYC Team,

Thought I’d share some initial thoughts on the FX Crown – my thoughts just for the TYC shooters - as you know I’m brand neutral, but many AGNers are not, lol.

My Crown is about 6 months old (1 day new to me) and previous owner put only 2 tins of pellets through it since new. All settings (trigger, reg pressure, etc) are as delivered from factory/retailer.

· It has a very nice laminate stock – finish is very good.
· The trigger is pretty abysmal. It is set at 15.2 ounces (about FX standard). The 1st “stage” is pretty heavy – and once the 2nd stage is reached, it won’t move back to 1st stage position if you take your finger off. I’m seeing this as the “norm” across many high-end air guns – triggers just poorly set up. Sometimes when hitting 2nd stage with Crown this trigger breaks as expected, sometimes it just breaks without hardly any pressure – unexpectedly. This type of thing (sticky, heavy inconsistent trigger) is a good reason for a guy who does not want to adjust his own rifles to purchase from a “tuner” shop – rather than one of the big retailers (Pyramyd, AoA, etc).
· The cocking is reasonably smooth (FX rifles have been the smoothest cocking out of the box). However, I know that it can be much better. The design of the Crown pellet probe is VERY long – the long length creating more friction along the length. I will definitely polish this up.
· The design is not “tuner friendly” – to remove the stock on the Crown Mark 2 requires that you remove the two stock bolts with brass cups (nice touch), remove the safety (including o-ring) and remove the hammer spring wheel (screw, two ball bearings and two springs). Most rifles its just one or two stock bolts and the stock comes off.

How did she shoot?:

I cleaned the barrel (it was pretty clean as received from previous owner) and I slapped a Sightron SII 36x target scope on and got after it…

· Shot 1 was on the pizza box (@ 30 yards - using my cheap Hatsan Vortex Strike zeroing pellets – 17.75g)
· Adjusted scope and shots 2-6 created a nice .45 inch group (with the Hatsans)
· Switched to Air Arms 15.89g pellets and zeroed that pellet with shots 7-11 (shot 10 was an accident due to trigger)
· Put up 30-Yard Masters card – Shot 190 7X (breezy) – so this Crown shot a 190 Masters with its first 32 shots, lol
· Put up another 30-Yard Masters – 191 10X (slightly less breezy)

You will notice I pulled some shots left – resulting in 8s on the 1st card especially. The scope rings were set for another rifle, so the butt of the Crown was getting trapped in the down vest I was wearing on some shots. It took me a bit to realize this, lol. So, I shot the 191 card with just a flannel shirt on – in 31 degree weather. (buttpad was still catching my flannel shirt pocket occasionally)

· I went out again at end of workday and shot a 30-Yard Challenge card in fading daylight – 195 11X. (freezing in just a flannel shirt)

So she’s a good shooter. This Crown has its reg set at about 150bar.

· I believe that I can get this rifle/barrel to be a consistent 195+ rifle – with just a bit of polishing (hammer and probe) and some trigger work.
· I will have to adjust the scope back as I do not want the butt of the rifle to touch me when benchrest shooting.

In summary, these FX rifles have a unique barrel system. The steel tubes they use don’t look like they would shoot accurately, but they really do. Their “pacman” one piece trigger is the weakest point of their rifles – wish there was an aftermarket replacement with a real trigger. Also, I won’t buy a rifle with two regulators – it seems FX is now moving away from that design as well.

-Ed

 

[tommyb]

I can’t wait to get the .20 cal new Marauder from Rich after Christmas. He told me he machines ever LW barrel he gets and test shoots with the .20 cal JSB 15.89 pellet at 880 FPS. I know from Franklink the BC with that pellet is very good. Rich told me he literally gets a ragged hole at 40y.

Not sure how it will do, but at $735 price, I have to find out.

Thanks..

 

[EPG]

I can’t wait to get the .20 cal new Marauder from Rich after Christmas. He told me he machines ever LW barrel he gets and test shoots with the .20 cal JSB 15.89 pellet at 880 FPS. I know from Franklink the BC with that pellet is very good. Rich told me he literally gets a ragged hole at 40y.

Not sure how it will do, but at $735 price, I have to find out.

Thanks..

If it does well, I’ll be wanting one, lol. That’s a good price for a custom rifle set up properly by a tuner!

 

[Florida_Man]

TYC participants can clearly make out the only target that goes on this side

Nothing great today. It has been a little too windy when I can get out there. It was clear the 13 gr held better than the 10 gr pellets today. I shot the first half of the card with 13 and the 2nd with 10.

 

[EPG]

Lunchtime cards with Crown, hope you boys are getting lead downrange…

 

[tommyb]

Hey Ed

Re. Crown MK2 - Every owner loves this gun. Practically speaking, how much time is involved to adjust the HST, given your explanation of the multiple steps involved ?

My HW100 is a pia. Takes 5 minutes, but then I don’t want to reassemble the action and stock each time I am adjusting HST. As an example, if I know I am going to make several adjustments, I don’t like shooting the action only ( without stock) on my bags while doing each Chrony run and then try and make assessments on accuracy. Why - because I need the whole gun assembled to asses each HST adjustment for accuracy.

My RAW has a very easy to access HST to keep the gun firmly in both rests, without removing stock.

Tom

 

[EPG]

Hey Ed

Re. Crown MK2 - Every owner loves this gun. Practically speaking, how much time is involved to adjust the HST, given your explanation of the multiple steps involved ?

My HW100 is a pia. Takes 5 minutes, but then I don’t want to reassemble the action and stock each time I am adjusting HST. As an example, if I know I am going to make several adjustments, I don’t like shooting the action only ( without stock) on my bags while doing each Chrony run and then try and make assessments on accuracy. Why - because I need the whole gun assembled to asses each HST adjustment for accuracy.

My RAW has a very easy to access HST to keep the gun firmly in both rests, without removing stock.

Tom

Hi Tommy,
The FX Crown has a 7 level hammer spring external adjuster knob. (the ABCDE positions are the same as the 12345 positions power-wise).

If you want further adjustment, you must remove the stock.

The MIN 1-2-3-4-5 MAX should be sufficient for most folks. FX rifles use a “floating hammer” system, so the hammer spring is not under pressure when uncocked. That is why you can hear the hammer move around if you shake an FX rifle.

I want to tune and polish a lot of things, so I need to remove the stock to do the level of tweaking desired. On the Crown, you can’t make any trigger adjustments without removing the stock. This requires the amount of disassembly I mentioned in my previous post.

I love my RTI Prophets - most all adjustments are external (reg pressure, trigger and hammer spring).

-Ed