30-Yard Challenge
- Thread starter tcarlson777
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I’m with you. Let’s make it easier.
Thankfully, we are seeing more and more airgun manufacturers develop externally adjustable regs, HST, etc so the process of tuning is much easier.
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50+ degrees in Connecticut today - ans close to still conditions.
Shot 3 really good 40 yard cards with Crown. Then I said to myself - grab your best gun in these conditions…
One zero shot and then shot this at 40 - knew it was gonna score high so made Becky take my picture next to it, lol.
196 12X at 40-Challenge!
I’m holding the “wind flags” so you can see how still.
-Ed
Shot 3 really good 40 yard cards with Crown. Then I said to myself - grab your best gun in these conditions…
One zero shot and then shot this at 40 - knew it was gonna score high so made Becky take my picture next to it, lol.
196 12X at 40-Challenge!
I’m holding the “wind flags” so you can see how still.
-Ed
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Follow up 40-Masters. Damn wacky pellet on #8 cost me a new 40-Masters high score… but I’ll take 193 10X Masters at 40 yards, lol.
-Ed
Edit: to give context to group shooters as to how this rifle is performing at 40 yards in today’s conditions- I shot a quick 5-shot group at a paper plate when I was done target shooting. As you can see, all 5 shots fit inside 1/2” circle. This is what you need to enable 190+ scores at 40-yards. All pellets shot straight from tin.
-Ed
Edit: to give context to group shooters as to how this rifle is performing at 40 yards in today’s conditions- I shot a quick 5-shot group at a paper plate when I was done target shooting. As you can see, all 5 shots fit inside 1/2” circle. This is what you need to enable 190+ scores at 40-yards. All pellets shot straight from tin.
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Ed,
The hammer adjustment knob you are describing is the old version of the knob. A later version (which you can get from Huma or Bagnal and Kirkwood) has 23 stops on it. It has a continuous spiral on the back so that each step is a change of hammer spring compression of approx. 0.2mm. Since the IHS adjusts the hammer spring compression by 0.5mm for each full revolution, 5 clicks on the Power Wheel is the same as 2 complete revolutions of the IHS. What the new Power Wheel knob does is dramatically reduce the number of times I need to take the stock off and manually adjust the IHS. When tuning for a new projectile I will typically take the stock off, put the Power Wheel back on, set it to 13, adjust the IHS to about 5mm, and then set the regulator pressure to a value I calculate. I shoot with the stock off until I find the knee in the power curve for the velocity I am interested in (see Sub12Airgunners Crown Tuning video for more detail on this step). I then put the stock back on and use the Power Wheel to search for the setting which gives me the best groups. I also use the Power Wheel to adjust velocity for wind.
Now you might ask how I come up with the Regulator pressure. Yep, SWAG! I read a very swaggy approach somewhere which I have tried, and it seems to get me close. Knowing the projectile weight and a target velocity I calculate the energy at the muzzle. This obviously is kinetic energy (KE). The rifle must produce enough Potential energy (PE) for the projectile to reach that KE. The PE comes from the air in the barrel. Knowing the bore diameter of the barrel (close is good enough, remember it is a SWAG) and the length of the barrel I can find the internal volume. Volume times regulator pressure is the PE. But there is a lot of energy lost to friction, heat, noise, etc. in the time the projective travels the length of the barrel. I have found that a SWAG of
Open for discussion!
Cheers,
Greg
P.S. - Had to edit the numbers after I checked my data again.
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Hi Greg,
Thanks for all the info. I’m a big fan of sub12airgunner - as you know I like to work on my guns and he is a fantastic resource.
I’ll have to get the updated power adjuster knob. I actually have it on my FX Dreamline Power Pup - so I know the knob you are referring to. I just randomly picked a setting of 3 and wound up chronoing at 870-75fps with the 15.89s so I have left it there.
Typically, a good “tune” on a regulated PCP is about 96% of maximum velocity for a given regulator pressure. My reg is about 150bar. I haven’t tested for max velocity with 380mm barrel because I wasn’t sure how to do it on these rifles that have a power wheel in the mix. I’m very used to tuning rifles that don’t have the wheel.
I really have to adjust my Crown’s trigger as it’s inconsistent - almost a bit scary at times.
Even with the trigger, I shot 3 cards with the new to me Crown today - all at 40 yards as conditions were the best they have been in weeks here.
Results:
191 8x — 40-Challenge
191 7X — 40-Masters
190 8X — 40-Challenge
Pretty awesome!! Especially for a rifle I’m not used to with a trigger that is breaking inconsistently.
Calm wind conditions certainly helped. Note these great 40-yard scores were with little 15.89g pellets!! (Not 18.13s or heavier).
I raked leaves for quite a while between the 2nd and 3rd card. Dang rogue pellet on Target #1 resulted in a 7 and cost me a better score on the 190 card - as I thought I released a good shot.
I’m liking the Crown with the short barrel. Once I fix the trigger I’m going to see if I can keep the same reg pressure and simply swap barrels for these pellets as follows:
380mm barrel for 15.89 pellets
500mm barrel for 18.13 pellets
700mm barrel for 25.4g pellets
That would be really cool.
-Ed
Thanks for all the info. I’m a big fan of sub12airgunner - as you know I like to work on my guns and he is a fantastic resource.
I’ll have to get the updated power adjuster knob. I actually have it on my FX Dreamline Power Pup - so I know the knob you are referring to. I just randomly picked a setting of 3 and wound up chronoing at 870-75fps with the 15.89s so I have left it there.
Typically, a good “tune” on a regulated PCP is about 96% of maximum velocity for a given regulator pressure. My reg is about 150bar. I haven’t tested for max velocity with 380mm barrel because I wasn’t sure how to do it on these rifles that have a power wheel in the mix. I’m very used to tuning rifles that don’t have the wheel.
I really have to adjust my Crown’s trigger as it’s inconsistent - almost a bit scary at times.
Even with the trigger, I shot 3 cards with the new to me Crown today - all at 40 yards as conditions were the best they have been in weeks here.
Results:
191 8x — 40-Challenge
191 7X — 40-Masters
190 8X — 40-Challenge
Pretty awesome!! Especially for a rifle I’m not used to with a trigger that is breaking inconsistently.
Calm wind conditions certainly helped. Note these great 40-yard scores were with little 15.89g pellets!! (Not 18.13s or heavier).
I raked leaves for quite a while between the 2nd and 3rd card. Dang rogue pellet on Target #1 resulted in a 7 and cost me a better score on the 190 card - as I thought I released a good shot.
I’m liking the Crown with the short barrel. Once I fix the trigger I’m going to see if I can keep the same reg pressure and simply swap barrels for these pellets as follows:
380mm barrel for 15.89 pellets
500mm barrel for 18.13 pellets
700mm barrel for 25.4g pellets
That would be really cool.
-Ed
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nice to get a good day , love when that happens i am under a tornado watch right now according to national WX but no watch under local WX ? we shall see .
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Good cards at 30 yards Ed, never mind at 40. A 196-12x and 193 Masters card is really accurate shooting. These 40 yard attempts are unforgiving for me. I will need zero wind, good out of tin pellets, and a 1/2” consistent MOA group size to break 190.
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Thanks Tommy. Favorable conditions yesterday allowed me to shoot 5 cards - all 40 yards - and scored 190+ on all 5.
Definitely makes me think that I’m getting better on the trigger. I shot very few sighters yesterday. I’m really focused on not letting those crosshairs move as I squeeze, a challenge with a 45X scope on a flexible table. I was always a “Steady Eddie” - good shot as a kid and good photographer but I know my marksman days are numbered because of eyesight. I had 20/10 vision as a kid (measured many times) but now have a condition in my right eye called asteriod hyleosis - see hundreds of floaters in that eye. I don’t notice it normally, but when scope magnification goes above 20X it really becomes prominent for some reason.
The 196 with the Prophet - I brought it outside, let it sit in the rest for 5 minutes to temperature stabilize, dry fired once to clear plenum, shot 1 sighter and then banged out that card. On the two pairs I crossed off, both had an X. I was in the zone. Thought about moving it out to 50 yards to see if I could hit 180 (49.3 yards is all I can get without dealing with swampiness) - but elected to shoot a 40-Masters instead.
Today I’m looking outside at my flags and conditions are not like yesterday, but I’ll shoot a couple cards before the rain starts - probably at 30 yards.
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Tried 40 yards with 13.4g .177 in Prophet. Last time I picked this rifle up I shot back to back 191s at 40 yards (Masters & Challenge)
In case you think I can do it in shifting wind, lol… 169 5X today.
I did have a streak of 3 straight Xs as the wind momentarily died mid-card. I was kinda getting into the challenge of reading the wind, I can appreciate the skills of those guys shooting extreme benchrest in the wind…
In case you think I can do it in shifting wind, lol… 169 5X today.
I did have a streak of 3 straight Xs as the wind momentarily died mid-card. I was kinda getting into the challenge of reading the wind, I can appreciate the skills of those guys shooting extreme benchrest in the wind…
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Tried today first time ever this 40 yard master challenge (nothing to tell about results 
). FX Maverick VP .25, Hawke Vantage 3-9AO , with FX 34gr pellets. That 9 magnification is not clearly enough. I hardly saw those rings at all and those large numbers were just blurry black dots. Convient as POI was ~2 MOA left so I aimed on those Maybe if that 6 rings was all black then even with 9x magnification I could aim to center of that ring?
). FX Maverick VP .25, Hawke Vantage 3-9AO , with FX 34gr pellets. That 9 magnification is not clearly enough. I hardly saw those rings at all and those large numbers were just blurry black dots. Convient as POI was ~2 MOA left so I aimed on those Maybe if that 6 rings was all black then even with 9x magnification I could aim to center of that ring?Upvote 0
Tried today first time ever this 40 yard master challenge (nothing to tell about results
Mikko
Yeah, you definitely need more magnification. If you look at Ed’s leaderboard, you will see many who use 24-45x magnification across a variety of scopes and brands. Don’t worry because 40 yards is a long way, especially if you are trying to hit the “head of a match” 20 times! Try using more sighters and treat yourself to a new Christmas present ( new scope). This 40 yard masters is exceptionally difficult, but it does make a person focus.
Tom
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Yeah, after that first try, I started to look scope with more magnification
Something with at least of that 24x mag. With that 9x Hawke it did decent (for me) 162/200 just by aiming those "black blurry dots" (numbers and line at the right side of paper as POI was off that ~2 MOA).Upvote 0
I just mounted my Vector 8-32 on my P35-25. Normally it wears a Primary Arms 4-14. The PA has decent glass but I cannot see the 10 ring or X dot with it either. If I had to shoot this target with it I think sighting it so I could aim for the bottom of the target (or top or side) might work better than the center. Something I can see. The Vector is so big and heavy it is just a target scope for me but it is relatively inexpensive. They also offer a 10-40 for about the same price and it has a dot reticle. I think I can shoot as well at 30 yards with my 6-24 power scopes that have better glass than the Vector. But if you already have a lower powered scope that works for most purposes you might think about a Vector 10-40 or 8-32.
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Yesterday I took a bunch of the Crown’s internals apart – actually did the trigger disassembly twice…
… I polished up the hammer and hammer spring – even the spring guide.
I polished up the trigger sears (pacman, etc) I even polished the internal holes that the pins go through for the trigger and the sear. I noticed that the trigger (which was breaking at 14.5 ounces) did not have the 2nd stage “button” engaged. It was basically only a 1st stage, which is why it would go off so inconsistently – especially if it let off the 1st stage and then started pressing again – it was basically working its way up the sear as you pressed – felt like constant creep.
So, I set the trigger up as FX intended – with a “2nd Stage” using the little ball button. Despite all the polishing (and some dry lube) I could only reduce the break weight to 12 ounces in 2-stage mode. I could easily reduce the break weight to 6 ounces if just using a single stage.
It’s a horrible trigger design in my humble opinion – certainly not worthy of how these FX shoot – or their price point. They use this design on all their rifles – including the Impact.
I actually pulled my Dreamline Classic trigger apart to see why it was “better”. Then I remembered that I put in a lighter trigger spring. So I put the stock trigger spring back in the Dreamline trigger and was able to get it down to 10 ounces in 2-stage mode. I attribute this to the weaker hammer spring used in the Dreamline (compared to the Crown) – as I believe the hammer spring tension contributes to the trigger break weight on this trigger design.
Lunch time today I figured I might need to rezero the Crown after all the disassembly and assembly. As the rifle was sighted for 40 yards, I threw up a 40-Masters card, dry fired to clear plenum, and took a zero shot on the cardboard left of the target – it was pretty darn close to zero…
… so I started the card, hit an 8 on the 1st target, then wound up with this 193 10X. (!) It was reasonably good conditions, very mild breeze that I could wait out at times. I was NOT expecting this. This is no bs (you know me) – after putting rifle guts back in, this Crown shot a 193 10X 40-Masters after just one zero shot – with 15.89g pellets !
Even crazier – it was freakin’ 32F and my hands were freezing. I had the vest problem where my down vest was touching the butt of the Crown – which messes with my accuracy. So, I’m gonna shoot another card today – without the vest. I want to see what I can do (while freezing) with this better trigger setup. Even though its heavier than I like, the 2 stages are what I’m used to and definitely helped me.
Yeah, I’m nuts to shoot in this cold - and both hands are bare cause I single shot load using my left hand .
-Ed
… I polished up the hammer and hammer spring – even the spring guide.
I polished up the trigger sears (pacman, etc) I even polished the internal holes that the pins go through for the trigger and the sear. I noticed that the trigger (which was breaking at 14.5 ounces) did not have the 2nd stage “button” engaged. It was basically only a 1st stage, which is why it would go off so inconsistently – especially if it let off the 1st stage and then started pressing again – it was basically working its way up the sear as you pressed – felt like constant creep.
So, I set the trigger up as FX intended – with a “2nd Stage” using the little ball button. Despite all the polishing (and some dry lube) I could only reduce the break weight to 12 ounces in 2-stage mode. I could easily reduce the break weight to 6 ounces if just using a single stage.
It’s a horrible trigger design in my humble opinion – certainly not worthy of how these FX shoot – or their price point. They use this design on all their rifles – including the Impact.
I actually pulled my Dreamline Classic trigger apart to see why it was “better”. Then I remembered that I put in a lighter trigger spring. So I put the stock trigger spring back in the Dreamline trigger and was able to get it down to 10 ounces in 2-stage mode. I attribute this to the weaker hammer spring used in the Dreamline (compared to the Crown) – as I believe the hammer spring tension contributes to the trigger break weight on this trigger design.
Lunch time today I figured I might need to rezero the Crown after all the disassembly and assembly. As the rifle was sighted for 40 yards, I threw up a 40-Masters card, dry fired to clear plenum, and took a zero shot on the cardboard left of the target – it was pretty darn close to zero…
… so I started the card, hit an 8 on the 1st target, then wound up with this 193 10X. (!) It was reasonably good conditions, very mild breeze that I could wait out at times. I was NOT expecting this. This is no bs (you know me) – after putting rifle guts back in, this Crown shot a 193 10X 40-Masters after just one zero shot – with 15.89g pellets !
Even crazier – it was freakin’ 32F and my hands were freezing. I had the vest problem where my down vest was touching the butt of the Crown – which messes with my accuracy. So, I’m gonna shoot another card today – without the vest. I want to see what I can do (while freezing) with this better trigger setup. Even though its heavier than I like, the 2 stages are what I’m used to and definitely helped me.
Yeah, I’m nuts to shoot in this cold - and both hands are bare cause I single shot load using my left hand .
-Ed
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That is not so bad
I just fired my first card at 21F (-6C) and last couple weeks it has been around 6-7F (-14C). It is winter here with about 1 feet of snow, but it does not stop me shooting 
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Unfortunately, wind kicked up blowing mostly L to R for Card 2.
Shot 175 6X - didn’t hold for wind. After wind killed score on target pair #2, thought I’d see the effect of wind on 15.89g pellets at 40 yards - so I didn’t hold for the wind - kept shooting at bullseye. Despite wind, this could have been a 180 score if I had just waited out wind on target pair #2.
Note my 3 sighters on cardboard left of target and my mid-card sighter were good - wind apparently has a sense of humor and dies down when I shoot sighters, lol.
I could not adjust chair because legs are frozen into ground - tomorrow will thaw.
-Ed
Shot 175 6X - didn’t hold for wind. After wind killed score on target pair #2, thought I’d see the effect of wind on 15.89g pellets at 40 yards - so I didn’t hold for the wind - kept shooting at bullseye. Despite wind, this could have been a 180 score if I had just waited out wind on target pair #2.
Note my 3 sighters on cardboard left of target and my mid-card sighter were good - wind apparently has a sense of humor and dies down when I shoot sighters, lol.
I could not adjust chair because legs are frozen into ground - tomorrow will thaw.
-Ed
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That is not so bad
Hey Mig-77,
You are my kind of shooter, lol - can’t let a little cold weather stop ya.
Last winter I shot when it was 22F - lost all feeling in my trigger finger by the end of the card. When my hand thawed indoors it hurt. I’m not looking forward to 22F in January, but if the wind is still, I’ll be shooting!
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Thanks Tommy,
I think I was a bit lucky as my crosshairs were moving at times because of my vest. The 2nd card I was very steady, but the 15.89s were no match for the wind that came up between cards.
I shot my final card of the day with the .177 Dreamline Classic. A 30-Masters with FX 10.3g . I shot a 190 8X - temperature was 31F.
It took me a bit to get used to the Dreamline, had not shot in a while. I had also adjusted its trigger last night when adjusting the Crown.
I had a 17 where both misses were above the bull, but centered. Most all 8s and 9s were high but centered. Once I figured that out, I focused on my hold and ended the card with 8 straight Xs or 10s.
The 177 Dreamline is so nice to shoot - using an Arken EPL-4 on it - reticle is great at 24x at 30 yard challenge targets.
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