30-Yard Challenge

[tommyb]

@tommyb - congratulations on the awesome 30-Masters Tommy.

I shot 4 forty-yard cards yesterday - in the wind. I shot 190+ on all 4 cards. I used Taipan Vet 2 .22 using heavy MRD 25.4g pellets. There is no question that the heavy pellets fare better in wind than the 18.13g.

You are really “Challenged” at 40 yards shooting 13.4g .177s. We have seen from Greg, Marvin, Airgunnero and Beerthief that you can shoot huge scores at 40 yards with .177 - if the wind conditions are very mild.

Yesterday, we lost our legendary hound dog “Hoover” after 15+ years… so I was shooting the Taipan despite the wind - just to keep my mind off the ole hound.

Oh, Becky & I got married Saturday - but I still got a 191 40-Challenge card in with the Crown on our wedding day - to occupy my mind before the ceremony, lol.

-Ed

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Ed,

Congrats on your wedding day! Those pictures tell the story as you both look terrific! Are you taking your air rifles on the Honeymoon?

I am very sorry to hear about Hoover, your dog. 15 years is a good long time to build great memories with your dog. They really do become our best friends in life!

This really hits home for Lucy and me because we had to go to our long time vet yesterday with Ellie ( our 3rd Golden Retriever) who is 12 this October. She had two infected cysts removed and then she got a biopsy for a baseball sized lump underneath her front paw arm close to her chest. The Vet looked under the microscope and saw suspicious cells. Doesn’t look good but we are praying for a miracle. I would be totally lost without her. Cancer is extremely prevalent in the larger dogs, as we lost the other two both due to cancer of the heart.

It’s amazing how attached we become to our pets. So many of us can relate.

Yep, 40Y is tough with any gun, but the 13.4g light pellets makes it that much harder.

Again, congrats on your big day!

 

[JimD]

Congratulations on the wedding. Sorry about the hound. My late wife was afraid of dogs so when she was with us we did not have any. Both kids got married after she went to heaven and we all now have dogs. They are members of the family. Both my kids dogs are getting older now. We will all be sad when their time is up.

I know nothing about tuning Daystates but my P35-25 became significantly more accurate when I got the speed of the MKII JSB heavies up around 800 fps. I suspect more would help further but it won't currently do it. Not enough hammer spring for a higher regulator setting. I don't know what the best speed is but I always start out trying for something like 880. You seem to have the power to drive them faster but tuning to 880 or even 850 would give you more shots. I don't shoot these targets often with my only unregulated airgun, my Prod, but it is similarly limited in shot count. I find I need to aim a little high at the start and end of a target. It has a 30 or 40 fps ES over 24 shots. Doesn't seem to affect accuracy but does seem to affect trajectory a little. I think unregulated guns are fun but regulated guns consistency is helpful for target work.

 

[NAProf]

@tommyb - congratulations on the awesome 30-Masters Tommy.

I shot 4 forty-yard cards yesterday - in the wind. I shot 190+ on all 4 cards. I used Taipan Vet 2 .22 using heavy MRD 25.4g pellets. There is no question that the heavy pellets fare better in wind than the 18.13g.

You are really “Challenged” at 40 yards shooting 13.4g .177s. We have seen from Greg, Marvin, Airgunnero and Beerthief that you can shoot huge scores at 40 yards with .177 - if the wind conditions are very mild.

Yesterday, we lost our legendary hound dog “Hoover” after 15+ years… so I was shooting the Taipan despite the wind - just to keep my mind off the ole hound.

Oh, Becky & I got married Saturday - but I still got a 191 40-Challenge card in with the Crown on our wedding day - to occupy my mind before the ceremony, lol.

-Ed

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Ed,
Sorry about Hoover. I always think of it as the end of an era when a great dog passes. They are joy and love machines who make our lives better.


Congrats to both Becky and you! She must be a good sport to put up with you and all of your "big boy" toys!

Cheers,
Greg

 

[tommyb]

Shot (3) 30Y Masters cards and (4) 40Y Challenge cards.

Wind was very switchy, but I tried to wait it out and took more time between shots.

193-7X 40 yard Challenge for the Leaderboard finally….Geez

 

[EPG]

I have the week off from work, weather is awesome- so I got in some shooting yesterday.

Shot all 40-Masters cards. In the morning, the Taipan shot 192 11X and Wolverine R HP shot 182 5X (I used to score so high with the Wolverine - need to practice with it more).

In the afternoon, wind was mild and I dragged out the Crown. Shot these 40-Masters scores:
198 15X (leaderboard submission)
192 9X
196 13X

Wow! I have no idea why I shoot this rifle so well. The trigger feels “gritty” compared to some of my other rifles.

I was actually rushing and getting tired during the 196 card - the 9s were all my fault. Then I stood up, refocused my mind and concentrated on keeping the crosshairs steadier through follow-thru on the last two rows… result was 8 straight Xs at 40 yards!

I was amped and wanted to shoot another card… new wife wanted to go to trivia night at the pub… I played trivia, lol.

I think this Crown is capable of a 200 40-Masters with 18.13g and this tune. It’s really just up to me.

With the market moving towards higher powered rifles that can shoot slugs, I hope FX always keeps a Crown & Dreamline in its lineup for us pellet shooters.

 

[tommyb]

Nearly perfect on those 40y cards Ed. I have a feeling the Crown and Dreamline will be around for a while.

Look at it this way. At least if you don’t do well in Trivia, the beer will still be cold at the pub!

 

[EPG]

Thanks TommyB, lol.

Shot a 196 12X 40-Masters on my 1st card of today with the Crown.

The wind kicked up on 2nd card (40-Masters). I took no sighters between targets and shot 188 9X (includes a 7!) in a wind the was constantly switching directions. Really proud of my 20X on Target pair #5 - held on the 8-ring on right and the 9-ring on left (wind reads) on the consecutive targets and nailed em both.

6a the wind burned me bad. I’m not sure how to determine from my flags what wind condition causes the pellet to get pushed down.

I should practice using sighters as well. Its also being able to “feel” when the wind is changing - to determine WHEN to use sighters.

The Crown is a good rifle to practice wind reading with…. cause it doesn’t miss. So if you shoot an 8 or a 7, you missed the wind read.

 

[tommyb]

Thanks TommyB, lol.

Shot a 196 12X 40-Masters on my 1st card of today with the Crown.

The wind kicked up on 2nd card (40-Masters). I took no sighters between targets and shot 188 9X (includes a 7!) in a wind the was constantly switching directions. Really proud of my 20X on Target pair #5 - held on the 8-ring on right and the 9-ring on left (wind reads) on the consecutive targets and nailed em both.

6a the wind burned me bad. I’m not sure how to determine from my flags what wind condition causes the pellet to get pushed down.

I should practice using sighters as well. Its also being able to “feel” when the wind is changing - to determine WHEN to use sighters.

The Crown is a good rifle to practice wind reading with…. cause it doesn’t miss. So if you shoot an 8 or a 7, you missed the wind read.

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Theoretically, a straight head wind should push the pellet down and the opposite is true for down range straight tail winds. I.e., should push the pellet up from your POA.

However, you gave me a good idea. It would be nice if there was an automated way to capture your POA and wind hold for each of the 24 bulls vs. manually recording with a pen on each bull. Like you did on 5a and 5b. It would show everyone where the shooter was holding with a given wind condition, but unless the wind direction was also specified, I’m not sure how meaningful the analysis would be. A good idea maybe for a future iPhone / Chrony app
Integration project to help shooters with wind reading.

I suppose I could get an empty target and ‘manually’ record and annotate my hold with each individual bull, but that sounds painfully looooooong and requires an ‘anal’ amount of patience. But, if I was diligent and carefully recorded this info for each shot taken, maybe I could learn something.

 

[JimD]

Congratulations on the shooting Ed. I do not shoot this well but I sometimes play with my P35-177 in the wind at 30 yards to practice reading it. I can see sideways wind pretty well but it's much harder to see wind blowing at an angle towards or away from me. Usually it's towards. As you note, switches are also murder. I console myself with the occasional 20 because there are more lower scores. I think my biggest limitations are getting the angle of the wind flag right, determining wind speed from the tail of the flag, and moving between the flag and the gun before the wind switches.

 

[tommyb]

This whole ‘wind reading’ discussion is complex, especially as it relates to forming shooting techniques for the 30-40y challenge, that result in hitting more ‘10’s or ‘X’s.

There are a few principles that I am trying to improve on, but can’t seem to solve the puzzle:

> knowing exactly when to shoot and when not to shoot, assuming I have 20 minutes to shoot one card
> selecting the best wind condition that gives me the most confident wind hold to nail a ‘10.’
> knowing ‘when’ to take a sighter ( and also when not to) with a quick wind switch and readjust my hold

I wish there was a ‘Wind reading for dummies’ easy to understand guide that I could read to bone up on here.

 

[Demphna2]

This whole ‘wind reading’ discussion is complex, especially as it relates to forming shooting techniques for the 30-40y challenge, that result in hitting more ‘10’s or ‘X’s.

There are a few principles that I am trying to improve on, but can’t seem to solve the puzzle:

> knowing exactly when to shoot and when not to shoot, assuming I have 20 minutes to shoot one card
> selecting the best wind condition that gives me the most confident wind hold to nail a ‘10.’
> knowing ‘when’ to take a sighter ( and also when not to) with a quick wind switch and readjust my hold

I wish there was a ‘Wind reading for dummies’ easy to understand guide that I could read to bone up on here.

What kind of wind do you mostly deal with? At what direction is it blowing and what's the average speed?

 

[EPG]

What kind of wind do you mostly deal with? At what direction is it blowing and what's the average speed?

I live on a hill. The road in front of my house is so steep that I have never seen a bicycle rider in my 4 years here. My bike is sitting unused unless I transport it to riding trails. So, there is always some wind as downdrafts/updrafts move along the hillside.

Here is a card I shot yesterday with Crown. Its not really a 193 - as you can see I reshot 8a and 8b after completing the card.

On pair 8, the wind shifted BEFORE my flags indicated - or the breeze was up closer to me (40 yards and I had 4 flags up) and I didn’t notice the close flag as I was focused downrange.

At first I thought “bad pellet) but as you can see, two consecutive shots landed in exactly the same shifted spot.

Its the wind conditions that shift vertical PoI that are really tough for me to read. Many a great card has been lowered by these types of breezes.

However, I shot consecutive 195+ cards a while back in winds approaching 14mph! Because that day, it was consistent R to L and a pretty steady wind speed. I was amazed and thought I was becoming a “great wind shooter”, lol. I was quickly humbled the next time I faced a switching breeze.

I need to start to using sighters and learn when to use them.

My practice of never using sighters once I shoot the 1st target puts a huge demand on my wind reading (which has improved because of it) but has hurt me in competitions because I tend to avoid using sighters.

I really don’t want to become a “competition shooter” because I’ve played at a high level in other sports - and I don’t want to take the fun out of this airgun hobby for me.

The reason I don’t use sighters is that I have 15 (too many) PCPs and I want to know which ones are my most consistently accurate. Scoring EVERY shot I take on this tiny target at 30 and 40 yards gives me a good idea of which rifles are most accurate for me.

 

[tommyb]

What kind of wind do you mostly deal with? At what direction is it blowing and what's the average speed?

Hey Brandon

As you can tell from pics, I always shoot the Challenge Targets at my local outdoor range. It is pretty wide open, but there are two 20’ BERMs on each side of the 50-60 yard width of the field. I also shoot under a roof, which A well known /respected competition BR shooter has mentioned to me, can also have some tricky characteristics.

The 2nd part of your question is tricky. The average wind speed on a typical day can vary from light ( Zero to two mph); to three-seven mph. Most of the time, I like to have a light tail wind at 180 degrees heading down range. I also like a slight head wind. The cross winds are harder to judge for me, although I have had some good success holding on 8-9 am and 3-4 pm crosswinds holding on the 7 or 8 ring.

Candidly, if the wind blows more than 3 -4 mph, I normally just shoot groups or maybe practice wind reading at 30Y max. These light pellets get affected by even the slightest winds, so it’s almost a waste of time for me to tryfor mid to upper 190’s scores with high wind conditions.

For 50Y N50 and 100Y BR shooting, my tolerance for higher winds is better, but the pellet/wind dynamics are still tricky. Even so, I try and cherry pick light wind days since this is informal and fun for me vs. preparing for an EBR, etc.

As Ed stated, if this ever becomes a chore vs. hobby, I’ll likely slow down my paper target shooting.

 

[JimD]

I'm almost proud of this one. I was sitting here watching football games I don't care much about and decided shooting a target would be more productive despite the wind. Officially our wind speed is 12 mph now but it is varying both in speed and direction. Always some from the east which is at me and switches from the North to the South but mainly from the Northeast. But angle varies. I shot my P35-22 which wears a 6-24 Veyron scope and shoots H&N Baracuda Match at about 820 fps. Admittedly a lot of my 10s were in periods of less wind but I still had to recognize that. Cell 11 is my last and I got caught on a switch from the South to the North.

I tried a target with my P35-177 shooting H&N Baracuda FTs at about 880 fps. 171 5X. Wind drifts seem to be about twice as much. I did get one 20 2X.

 

[beerthief]

@tommyb - congratulations on the awesome 30-Masters Tommy.

I shot 4 forty-yard cards yesterday - in the wind. I shot 190+ on all 4 cards. I used Taipan Vet 2 .22 using heavy MRD 25.4g pellets. There is no question that the heavy pellets fare better in wind than the 18.13g.

You are really “Challenged” at 40 yards shooting 13.4g .177s. We have seen from Greg, Marvin, Airgunnero and Beerthief that you can shoot huge scores at 40 yards with .177 - if the wind conditions are very mild.

Yesterday, we lost our legendary hound dog “Hoover” after 15+ years… so I was shooting the Taipan despite the wind - just to keep my mind off the ole hound.

Oh, Becky & I got married Saturday - but I still got a 191 40-Challenge card in with the Crown on our wedding day - to occupy my mind before the ceremony, lol.

-Ed

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Congrat's Hope you two have as much happiness as i have had the last 54 years ................................................................................. sorry about your dog .
Stan and Audrey in KY

 

[Demphna2]

I live on a hill. The road in front of my house is so steep that I have never seen a bicycle rider in my 4 years here. My bike is sitting unused unless I transport it to riding trails. So, there is always some wind as downdrafts/updrafts move along the hillside.

Here is a card I shot yesterday with Crown. Its not really a 193 - as you can see I reshot 8a and 8b after completing the card.

On pair 8, the wind shifted BEFORE my flags indicated - or the breeze was up closer to me (40 yards and I had 4 flags up) and I didn’t notice the close flag as I was focused downrange.

At first I thought “bad pellet) but as you can see, two consecutive shots landed in exactly the same shifted spot.

Its the wind conditions that shift vertical PoI that are really tough for me to read. Many a great card has been lowered by these types of breezes.

However, I shot consecutive 195+ cards a while back in winds approaching 14mph! Because that day, it was consistent R to L and a pretty steady wind speed. I was amazed and thought I was becoming a “great wind shooter”, lol. I was quickly humbled the next time I faced a switching breeze.

I need to start to using sighters and learn when to use them.

My practice of never using sighters once I shoot the 1st target puts a huge demand on my wind reading (which has improved because of it) but has hurt me in competitions because I tend to avoid using sighters.

I really don’t want to become a “competition shooter” because I’ve played at a high level in other sports - and I don’t want to take the fun out of this airgun hobby for me.

The reason I don’t use sighters is that I have 15 (too many) PCPs and I want to know which ones are my most consistently accurate. Scoring EVERY shot I take on this tiny target at 30 and 40 yards gives me a good idea of which rifles are most accurate for me.

View attachment 495982

Shooting on a hill is tough, lots of variability to contend with!

 

[Demphna2]

Hey Brandon

As you can tell from pics, I always shoot the Challenge Targets at my local outdoor range. It is pretty wide open, but there are two 20’ BERMs on each side of the 50-60 yard width of the field. I also shoot under a roof, which A well known /respected competition BR shooter has mentioned to me, can also have some tricky characteristics.

The 2nd part of your question is tricky. The average wind speed on a typical day can vary from light ( Zero to two mph); to three-seven mph. Most of the time, I like to have a light tail wind at 180 degrees heading down range. I also like a slight head wind. The cross winds are harder to judge for me, although I have had some good success holding on 8-9 am and 3-4 pm crosswinds holding on the 7 or 8 ring.

Candidly, if the wind blows more than 3 -4 mph, I normally just shoot groups or maybe practice wind reading at 30Y max. These light pellets get affected by even the slightest winds, so it’s almost a waste of time for me to tryfor mid to upper 190’s scores with high wind conditions.

For 50Y N50 and 100Y BR shooting, my tolerance for higher winds is better, but the pellet/wind dynamics are still tricky. Even so, I try and cherry pick light wind days since this is informal and fun for me vs. preparing for an EBR, etc.

As Ed stated, if this ever becomes a chore vs. hobby, I’ll likely slow down my paper target shooting.

My approach to wind comes from shooting 1000 yards+ with powder burners. For me, I try to determine what the prevelent wind condition is and work with that. So the majority wind condition is what I try to run with. Of course, wind is not a constant on most days, so this is where a sighter can tell you a lot, especially if you have an intermittent wind condition that keeps showing up.

Now the terrible part is when the wind completely changes and all your baseline data becomes obsolete requiring another sighter or 3 to verify the new majority condition. Also worth noting is all of this takes so much time and patience for your condition to show up (which is why it's pretty cool we're not on a time limit here). Just shooting my Sahara at 55 yards in windy conditions can take a good 8 to 10 minutes for 5 rounds if I'm really trying to pay attention. I've got a short attention span so one card is about all I can focus on for most optimal preformance. And sometimes I'll feel myself lose the edge after about 10 rounds.

I'm also a cheap skate and a reloader so sending rounds at 1.50 a round and knowing the time it takes to assemble them made me want to focus on reading wind as best I can without wasting time, components, and precious finite brain power Pellets are way cheaper, a lot more fun to play with and easily influenced by the slightest wind speed or shift as everyone already knows better than me.

 

[EPG]

Wind was mild today. I tried to break 190 with Wolverine R HP .22 at 40-Masters… I shot 188. I think shooting the 18.13s at 1,025fps works well at 30 yards, but they may destabilize a bit by 40 yards. Groups are always 1/2” edge to edge at 40 yards, so maybe its just me with the Wolverine.

Then I shot some .177 with Dreamline Classic. Used the 13.4g at 820-825fps (instead of the usual 10.3g with Dreamline).

Shot three 30-Masters. First card was 195, then a 198 - last card was 197. Wow, that’s about as good as I’ve ever shot .177.

Figured out a new hold for Dreamline that seems to work well. No leaderboard submissions but I’m happy!

 

[beerthief]

submitting my first 30 yard challenge target (this year ? ) haven't shot one of these in a few months , the other paper i used as a sight in on part of it . then just practice .

 

[beerthief]

Shooting on a hill is tough, lots of variability to contend with!

look up Rails to Trails if you already haven't