Nice 30-Masters card Greg. If you could count those 4 sighters, it would be a 30-Challenge of 197 and 14 or 15X !
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30-Yard Challenge
- Thread starter tcarlson777
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Nice 30-Masters card Greg. If you could count those 4 sighters, it would be a 30-Challenge of 197 and 14 or 15X !
First day of the week. Only me and one other shooter at the range.
Shot several 30 and 40 yard cards with the RAW HM1000x .22 HP.
Two Leaderboard submissions:
30 Y Challenge: 200-17X. Almost 20X, but not far off. JTS 22.07g at 985 FPS
40Y Challenge: 194-13X. A few 8’s hurt a much better showing.
Hard to imagine shooting this hot with the RAW. I was thinking I would have to turn down HS, but no problem with the high velocity. I’m guessing 50Y accuracy might be OK, but 100Y will be interesting to test some day.
If I didn’t use the 4 mulligans, would have been a 239-19X.
Shot several 30 and 40 yard cards with the RAW HM1000x .22 HP.
Two Leaderboard submissions:
30 Y Challenge: 200-17X. Almost 20X, but not far off. JTS 22.07g at 985 FPS
40Y Challenge: 194-13X. A few 8’s hurt a much better showing.
Hard to imagine shooting this hot with the RAW. I was thinking I would have to turn down HS, but no problem with the high velocity. I’m guessing 50Y accuracy might be OK, but 100Y will be interesting to test some day.
If I didn’t use the 4 mulligans, would have been a 239-19X.
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Did better tonight. Didn't touch the scope and just shot. 196 12X with my P35-22 shooting H&N Baracuda Match (21 grain) about 805 fps. I turned the HS down 1/4 turn during the sight in which dropped the velocity 5 fps but did not seem to affect POI. This gun still wears my Athlon Argos 10-40 set at 40X. Nice to get a target 195 or better.
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Ok, I'm writing this up as its really making me rethink some things with this hobby - definitely messed with my mind.
Leaderboard submission:
30-Masters: 199 15X
Rifle: Benjamin Akela .177
Pellet: FX 10.3g
Scope: Arken EPL-4 6x24 @ 24x
I wanted to shoot today because temps were above 40F. To do this, I had to smash ice leftover from an ice storm so that I could get onto my deck and to my back yard shooting table. I've been smashing ice with a heavy rubber mallet for days - mostly on driveway, but today I needed to not destroy myself or a rifle on the deck - you can see where I walked in the snow to avoid the ice on the deck.
The wind was gusty at 11mph+ - but it seemed more up in the trees than at ground level - and I needed to shoot. It has been so windy and cold lately that 2 of my 4 wind flags had their streamers blown off - no time to fix those, so went with 1 flag for the 30 yards today.
My Deep Thoughts:
You know that the last time I could shoot a card, I shot a 200 14X 30-Challenge in the freezing rain with this Akela. I was thinking to myself "this is the second cheapest rifle I own, it must have shot that 200 by luck - it won't do well today". I had HANDPUMPED it to the exact same 2,300psi as it shot the 200 (I have a new compressor coming Friday).
I shot three 30-Masters cards with the with the Akela today:
Card 1: 193 9X
Card 2: 199 15X
Card 3: 192 12X
I took two sighters before the 1st card - both were Xs! I took one sighter before Card #2 - it was a 10. I took ZERO sighters before Card #3 - I was almost trying to make the Akela miss, definitely rushed Card #3 - and it still shot 12 Xs !!
All three cards on a single fill to only 2,300psi on an unregulated rifle that I tuned. That's 63 total shots - you can see them all. I circled the two sighters on Card #1 (one on each side of the card). The sighter on Card #2 is at the white dot just to the left of Row #1.
The Akela is the 3rd air rifle I bought. I bought it on a Crosman's Fathers Day sale for about $330. I bought it to tear it apart and teach myself how to airgunsmith.
Look at the vertical spread across these 63 shots on a windy day - its excellent. The Akela was rough out of the box, but it cost virtually zero money to make it a laser - just polishing up the trigger and hammer and cutting the hammer spring to the appropriate length (lots of R&D there).
So I'm looking at these targets today - shot from my sub-optimal (lol) shooting bench (see pictures), in sub-optimal conditions... and I'm saying to myself "why do you now have probably 20+ PCPs, all but 1 being significantly more expensive than this Akela, for a casual target shooting hobby"?
Its easy to get caught up in the GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). I love my hobby and I'm having a blast. Knowing that I'm gonna tune up any gun I get, I bought almost all of them used (the Akela was one of about 5 I bought new).
Bottom Line:
You don't need to spend a lot of money to get a good shooting PCP rifle for 30 and 40 yards. It doesn't need to have a regulator (or two regulators!) to shoot accurately. I'm beginning to think that regulators are a bit of a bother actually. To get a modest cost rifle shooting to its potential, you need to put some time into polishing it up and optimizing it. My "lowly" Akela certainly shoots right with many/most of the $1,500+ "high-end" PCPs that I own. Actually, I like the ergonomics of this Akela more than most of my rifles - its super smooth and enjoyable to shoot.
BTW, I shot all these scores using the spring loaded magazines the Akela comes with. Definitely not a fan of spring loaded mags. I have a single shot loader coming for the Akela - same SSL also works in my Reximex Daystar... maybe it will get me to a 200 30-Masters, lol.
-Ed
Leaderboard submission:
30-Masters: 199 15X
Rifle: Benjamin Akela .177
Pellet: FX 10.3g
Scope: Arken EPL-4 6x24 @ 24x
I wanted to shoot today because temps were above 40F. To do this, I had to smash ice leftover from an ice storm so that I could get onto my deck and to my back yard shooting table. I've been smashing ice with a heavy rubber mallet for days - mostly on driveway, but today I needed to not destroy myself or a rifle on the deck - you can see where I walked in the snow to avoid the ice on the deck.
The wind was gusty at 11mph+ - but it seemed more up in the trees than at ground level - and I needed to shoot. It has been so windy and cold lately that 2 of my 4 wind flags had their streamers blown off - no time to fix those, so went with 1 flag for the 30 yards today.
My Deep Thoughts:
You know that the last time I could shoot a card, I shot a 200 14X 30-Challenge in the freezing rain with this Akela. I was thinking to myself "this is the second cheapest rifle I own, it must have shot that 200 by luck - it won't do well today". I had HANDPUMPED it to the exact same 2,300psi as it shot the 200 (I have a new compressor coming Friday).
I shot three 30-Masters cards with the with the Akela today:
Card 1: 193 9X
Card 2: 199 15X
Card 3: 192 12X
I took two sighters before the 1st card - both were Xs! I took one sighter before Card #2 - it was a 10. I took ZERO sighters before Card #3 - I was almost trying to make the Akela miss, definitely rushed Card #3 - and it still shot 12 Xs !!
All three cards on a single fill to only 2,300psi on an unregulated rifle that I tuned. That's 63 total shots - you can see them all. I circled the two sighters on Card #1 (one on each side of the card). The sighter on Card #2 is at the white dot just to the left of Row #1.
The Akela is the 3rd air rifle I bought. I bought it on a Crosman's Fathers Day sale for about $330. I bought it to tear it apart and teach myself how to airgunsmith.
Look at the vertical spread across these 63 shots on a windy day - its excellent. The Akela was rough out of the box, but it cost virtually zero money to make it a laser - just polishing up the trigger and hammer and cutting the hammer spring to the appropriate length (lots of R&D there).
So I'm looking at these targets today - shot from my sub-optimal (lol) shooting bench (see pictures), in sub-optimal conditions... and I'm saying to myself "why do you now have probably 20+ PCPs, all but 1 being significantly more expensive than this Akela, for a casual target shooting hobby"?
Its easy to get caught up in the GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). I love my hobby and I'm having a blast. Knowing that I'm gonna tune up any gun I get, I bought almost all of them used (the Akela was one of about 5 I bought new).
Bottom Line:
You don't need to spend a lot of money to get a good shooting PCP rifle for 30 and 40 yards. It doesn't need to have a regulator (or two regulators!) to shoot accurately. I'm beginning to think that regulators are a bit of a bother actually. To get a modest cost rifle shooting to its potential, you need to put some time into polishing it up and optimizing it. My "lowly" Akela certainly shoots right with many/most of the $1,500+ "high-end" PCPs that I own. Actually, I like the ergonomics of this Akela more than most of my rifles - its super smooth and enjoyable to shoot.
BTW, I shot all these scores using the spring loaded magazines the Akela comes with. Definitely not a fan of spring loaded mags. I have a single shot loader coming for the Akela - same SSL also works in my Reximex Daystar... maybe it will get me to a 200 30-Masters, lol.
-Ed
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Congrats on the 200 along with 17X Tommy - great RAW talent your showing us !!
Does that RAW jump around a bit slinging those heavy pellets so fast ?
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You're definitely tougher than I am Ed. But if I didn't have the luxury of waiting a few days to the next 50 degrees or better day I'd probably shoot in the cold too. But not as well as you are doing.
I like things about my one $1000+ airgun but I like my P35s too. They are regulated but came with plastic stocks unlike your Akela. I totally do not understand why anyone buys a $2000+ airgun as their first gun. The "sweet spot" seems to be something like $350-$500. For that kind of money you can get a pretty nice gun from several manufacturers. Accurate and pretty nice to shoot. From my perspective my P35s did not need the trigger polished either. I took the first one. The 25 caliber, completely apart but the trigger levers were smooth. Not machined smooth or polished but I think they may be powdered metal cast ot something like that.
Anyway, I still think higher priced guns have advantages but power priced one don't get enough respect.
I like things about my one $1000+ airgun but I like my P35s too. They are regulated but came with plastic stocks unlike your Akela. I totally do not understand why anyone buys a $2000+ airgun as their first gun. The "sweet spot" seems to be something like $350-$500. For that kind of money you can get a pretty nice gun from several manufacturers. Accurate and pretty nice to shoot. From my perspective my P35s did not need the trigger polished either. I took the first one. The 25 caliber, completely apart but the trigger levers were smooth. Not machined smooth or polished but I think they may be powdered metal cast ot something like that.
Anyway, I still think higher priced guns have advantages but power priced one don't get enough respect.
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Thanks Ed!
This is my best card since starting the 30Y Challenge in February 2022. I was super excited today. Makes it all worth while.
RAW - Actually, it did not jump around. I had it anchored with the Accu-Tac bipod really well.
The new JTS 22.07g pellets are of great quality.
I think if I’m patient, I can go higher at 40Y.
Wind was very light!!
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Leaderboard Submission:
Target: 40-Challenge
Rifle: FX Crown Mk2 .25 600mm (Greg's barrel)
Pellet: .25 FX 25.4g @ 880-885fps
Scope: Sightron SII 36x
I don't know what happened on the last row, may as well stopped after 20 shots and submitted as a 40-Masters, lol.
This is the first card I've shot since putting the pretty new-to-me blue laminate stock on it (it was a black synthetic when I bought off AGN classifieds - ain't she pretty now). You can see that I had to quickly rezero with this stock - took 3 zero shots and started card as light was fading. Single shot loaded by hand - stuffed each pellet into barrel with thumb. I had to hand pump the 580cc bottle up to about 200bar from 160 bar - that was an effort, lol.
I absolutely love the 25.4g .25 pellet - one of my favorites.
Also including my best FX Dreamline Classic .177 card today. Its a 30-Masters of 196 11X (already had a 196 12X on leaderboard.
Akela shot great again - shot two 194 30-Masters. I missed a wind call and got an 8 or the first card could have been higher.
Overall, I shot 5 30-Masters cards (Akela and Dreamline) and my low was a 193, so I'm very happy with that. It was a bit breezy, but 50 degrees - so that was great to be outside. The 27 shots with the Crown were as the light was getting a bit dim - but that made 6 cards shot today!!
I struggled with the Dreamline - kept changing my hold on rifle - as its a sporter stock. I much prefer thumbhole or pistol grip stocks for the way I prefer to pull the trigger. It always takes me a while to adjust to a sporter stock - as I don't pull the rifle into my shoulder when shooting off my "bench".
Hope you guys had as much fun as I did today !
Target: 40-Challenge
Rifle: FX Crown Mk2 .25 600mm (Greg's barrel)
Pellet: .25 FX 25.4g @ 880-885fps
Scope: Sightron SII 36x
I don't know what happened on the last row, may as well stopped after 20 shots and submitted as a 40-Masters, lol.
This is the first card I've shot since putting the pretty new-to-me blue laminate stock on it (it was a black synthetic when I bought off AGN classifieds - ain't she pretty now). You can see that I had to quickly rezero with this stock - took 3 zero shots and started card as light was fading. Single shot loaded by hand - stuffed each pellet into barrel with thumb. I had to hand pump the 580cc bottle up to about 200bar from 160 bar - that was an effort, lol.
I absolutely love the 25.4g .25 pellet - one of my favorites.
Also including my best FX Dreamline Classic .177 card today. Its a 30-Masters of 196 11X (already had a 196 12X on leaderboard.
Akela shot great again - shot two 194 30-Masters. I missed a wind call and got an 8 or the first card could have been higher.
Overall, I shot 5 30-Masters cards (Akela and Dreamline) and my low was a 193, so I'm very happy with that. It was a bit breezy, but 50 degrees - so that was great to be outside. The 27 shots with the Crown were as the light was getting a bit dim - but that made 6 cards shot today!!
I struggled with the Dreamline - kept changing my hold on rifle - as its a sporter stock. I much prefer thumbhole or pistol grip stocks for the way I prefer to pull the trigger. It always takes me a while to adjust to a sporter stock - as I don't pull the rifle into my shoulder when shooting off my "bench".
Hope you guys had as much fun as I did today !
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Great shooting as usual Ed.
I shot my one target from 5:30-5:45p same as yesterday. Weather report says winds are 5mph but my wind flags were not moving. I had to lower my point of aim a bit. It was 71 F so 10 degrees warmer than yesterday so maybe the velocity increased, I did not measure. Anyway, I submit this for the leader board. I think it's 197 14X. Still shooting my P35-22 with my Athlon Argos 40X and H&N 21 gr match pellets straight from the tin through a Carm magazine. Velocity about 810 fps. I'll also include a picture of the rest I am using these days. It's a Caldwell Rock Br so it was a knob for windage and a wheel for elevation. I have a bunny ear bag on the back in a home made box to lift it up. I've shot my two 200s off a bipod/monopod setup but I'm liking the Caldwell these days. I have a big lead block screwed to the stock where I normally have the Pic rail. It is very solid support leaving me no excuse.
I shot my one target from 5:30-5:45p same as yesterday. Weather report says winds are 5mph but my wind flags were not moving. I had to lower my point of aim a bit. It was 71 F so 10 degrees warmer than yesterday so maybe the velocity increased, I did not measure. Anyway, I submit this for the leader board. I think it's 197 14X. Still shooting my P35-22 with my Athlon Argos 40X and H&N 21 gr match pellets straight from the tin through a Carm magazine. Velocity about 810 fps. I'll also include a picture of the rest I am using these days. It's a Caldwell Rock Br so it was a knob for windage and a wheel for elevation. I have a bunny ear bag on the back in a home made box to lift it up. I've shot my two 200s off a bipod/monopod setup but I'm liking the Caldwell these days. I have a big lead block screwed to the stock where I normally have the Pic rail. It is very solid support leaving me no excuse.
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Great card Jimmy, you keep inching towards 200 with that P35-22.
I’ve got a bunch of tins of 21g Barracuda Match, I really should try shooting them from a few of my higher powered .22s. I have kind of an internal bias towards JSB/FX/AA soft lead pellets, because they load smoother than the H&N. But I’ve had some fantastic results with H&N in the past.
Have you tried the H&N Baracuda 30g .25 pellet ? I’ve had amazing results at 75, 80 and 100 yards with it using my .25 RTI Prophet. The issue is that the pellet requires a calm wind day. It has a slightly pointier shape than typical domes, and it doesn’t do well for me in any wind.
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Hi Guys,
Been trying to get a couple of decent card for the leader board over the last few days. I just can't seem to find the right time of day to catch the least wind. The two I am going to show were both on 1-3mph with gusts to 5mph. The worst part was the wind was from my starboard quarter (my 5 o'clock for the non-mariners). That direction seems to induce spiraling more than any other direction. I had some really horrible 40 yd cards
For the Leader Board - 192-10x 40yd Challenge with the Nordic Wolf Crown and .22 500mm barrel using the JSB 18.1's at 864 fps
- 197-12x 30yd Masters with the Green Mountain Crown and the .177 500 mm barrel using FX 13.4's at 820 fps.
Cheers,
Greg
Been trying to get a couple of decent card for the leader board over the last few days. I just can't seem to find the right time of day to catch the least wind. The two I am going to show were both on 1-3mph with gusts to 5mph. The worst part was the wind was from my starboard quarter (my 5 o'clock for the non-mariners). That direction seems to induce spiraling more than any other direction. I had some really horrible 40 yd cards
For the Leader Board - 192-10x 40yd Challenge with the Nordic Wolf Crown and .22 500mm barrel using the JSB 18.1's at 864 fps
- 197-12x 30yd Masters with the Green Mountain Crown and the .177 500 mm barrel using FX 13.4's at 820 fps.
Cheers,
Greg
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Greg,
Both are very good cards. Any card north of 195 for 30Y (especially a masters) is excellent. Any 190+ 40Y card is also a keeper.
The 5 o’clock wind is real close to a 180 ( 6 o’clock) tail wind, which gives me fits.
Those Crowns both like their owner.
Both are very good cards. Any card north of 195 for 30Y (especially a masters) is excellent. Any 190+ 40Y card is also a keeper.
The 5 o’clock wind is real close to a 180 ( 6 o’clock) tail wind, which gives me fits.
Those Crowns both like their owner.
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Re. Spiraling
Your pellet holes look very symmetrical, and not what I’m used to seeing when pellets start to tumble or spiral. Typically, the holes tear the paper if they are not hitting head on. Also, I thought the spiraling was more likely to occur with greater distances. When my MRDs go past 75 yards, I usually can see some imperfect holes on my targets as an example. I did not think pellets would spiral at 30-40y, at least when I see your nice round holes.
Did I misunderstand the spiraling context?
Thanks, Tom
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Tommy,
I really should have said that the "spiraling" comment was aimed at the 40yd target and the three I didn't show. But I will try to explain what I am thinking when I say this.
I think the technical term for what I am talking about is Nutation. It is an off-axis rotation about the flight path. Matt Dubber has a pretty good video about this, and I think Ted (of Ted's Holdover) did a couple of videos on this also. Because pellets are given directional stability by the air passing the skirts and the center of mass forward of the center of air resistance any yaw should reduce as the correction is developed on the skirt. But as soon as you spin a pellet it is possible for a gyroscopic force (perpendicular to the fight path) to develop from the part of the skirt experiencing more drag. As the pellet spin the direction of the gyroscopic force rotates around the flight path, causing the pellet to travel in an increasing larger helical path.
This begs the question of why spin pellets at all. The pellets are often expelled from the barrel with a great amount of disturbed air rapidly expanding just behind them. If this air knocks a pellet off axis it will begin the self-stabilize on the new axis. By spinning the pellet out of the barrel we are providing enough polar moment of inertia about the path that it will take a larger force to kick the pellet off axis.
I know this is a long explanation (I tend to drop into Professor mode when I try to explain things). But the above discussion explains why we have such slow barrel twist rates (when compared to firearms). We want just enough spin to get through the initial blast of disturbed air, but a fast spin will more likely cause nutation. This is why it is often better to slow the pellet velocity way down in windy conditions and correct for the additional pellet drop.
What I see in the 40 yd target is an inconsistent POI which doesn't just vary laterally, but vertically also. My ES for these shots was around 8-9 fps with an SD of 2.2. So, they pellets should be on a pretty consistent horizontal line. Because of the relatively small distance between the three 8's on the 40 yd target I don't think the Nutation had progressed very far, so the pellets do not have a lot of yaw and cut the paper fairly cleanly.
Sorry for letting my inner engineer out. But I find all this stuff fascinating. That's why I wrote my own ballistics program (not a 6 DOF one - yet) and keep trying to improve it. I have also been playing with a used Lab Radar I got to try and sort out a ballistics profile for pellets. I thought I would find something great, but my data so far says the G1 profile works really well for pellets.
Cheers,
Greg
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Ed, I have two barrels for my P35-25 but the one on the gun prefers 34 grain JSBs. The other barrel shoots better with the Baracudas. Maybe I should swap barrels so I have all three P35s on Baracudas.
I'm sure you like putting the hand pump back in storage and using your nice new compresser.
I'm sure you like putting the hand pump back in storage and using your nice new compresser.
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Had a lower wind day and shot a couple cards with my FWB150. If the wind stays down, I'll be trying the Masters 30 and the 40yd challenge tomorrow or Saturday with my .22 Red Wolf.... I like the dichotomy of shooting a 6.4 fpe rifle then doing the same challenge at 53 fpe 
. Cheers!
. Cheers!Upvote 0
Thanks Greg!
I always knew the entire “ballistics” topic was like speaking/understanding Mandarin to me, and now I’m sure.
I need to find some of those videos from Matt and Ted. I have a new appreciation for how much ‘air disturbance’ goes on while the pellet is still in the barrel and also when it leaves the barrel.
Slower barrel twist rates, slower velocities, slower spin rates can yield better potential to minimize nutation.
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Last day of the month. Beautiful but windy.
One Leaderboard submission:
FX Royale .22
JSB 20.83g at 865 FPS
Leupold 6.5X20X40mm EFR
Shot (4)30Y Masters cards. Wind was 5-8 mph, had 2 flags out. Really liking the accuracy with the JSB “lights.”
Leaderboard: 196-11X
Honorable mentions:
194-12X
191-13X
190-7X
One Leaderboard submission:
FX Royale .22
JSB 20.83g at 865 FPS
Leupold 6.5X20X40mm EFR
Shot (4)30Y Masters cards. Wind was 5-8 mph, had 2 flags out. Really liking the accuracy with the JSB “lights.”
Leaderboard: 196-11X
Honorable mentions:
194-12X
191-13X
190-7X
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