A different tact.

[Alan]

Long range shooting (target and/or game) seemingly impresses everyone, as does super-tight groupings. With the correct armory, both can be achieved within reason. And, given enough time, enough ammo, anyone can hit a beer can at 250 yards with even a .177 caliber springer! But there is one facet missing in the aforementioned—skill! So why aren't we talking about that? 

 

[ajshoots]

I suppose it depends on the level that you take something too. Hitting a beer can at 250 yards might be something everyone could do after many attempts? That would in your opinion be a skill-less lowly feat. However, if one took the time to become good enough to place every shot inside a 6" circle at 250 yards, I would say that is SKILLS as the majority can't do that. I also believe that saying anyone with the right equipment can shoot tiny groups is as far from the truth as possible!! If that were the case, all BR and FT scores would be the same for all shooters which is far from reality!!

 

[Alan]

Well, it is almost are reality! 

I shot a lot of bench rest way back when. At the time (late 60s, into early 70s), most folks shot either 222s, 22-250s, and a few 6 mm. Typical scores ranged in the high ones (≈.180 C-C), but most local guys were lucky to even get into the ones. Then circa mid 70s, along came the 22 PPC, and then the 6 mm PPC, and almost everyone was shooting in the low ones. Mac McMillan set the record in 1977 as I recall, with a score of .009 C-C. That stood for nearly 38 years, and then got broken twice in one year! The new standard to beat is .007 inches, center to center! Seems incredible, but with the right equipment, and some reloading savvy, anyone can shoot into the sub ones. Yes, hardware, powder specs, excellent bullets, and reloading equipment have advanced that far! But that is not what I was referring to. 

What I was referring to, was personal skill, and that is what we should be focused on. Hitting a dove at 100 yards with a PCP over a rest, isn't much different than shooting at a bench rest meet. But sneaking up on a dove at about 25 yards and using a springer or pumper off hand, and scoring, that is skill!

 

[ajshoots]

Your idea of skill is your own opinion. I don't think stalking to with into 25 yards of a dove is anymore skill than shooting one at 100 yards with a pcp from a rest. It is far from easy to be accurate at 100 yards with any airgun regardless of rest or not. It takes alot of time and skill to make those kind of shots a high percentage of the time. Both take skills, but different kinds of skills. What PCP's do you have that make it so easy at 100 yards?? I have some very accurate custom guns that still require alot of skill to make 100 yard shots.

 

[ezerhoden14]

I have to agree with AJ, also stalking is an entirely different skill set than shooting. you're comparing fieldcraft with marksmanship. Shooting offhand at 25 yards can be as difficult or less difficult as shooting 100 yards rested, although you have the same factors that affect every shot multiplied as the distance increases.

That being said, skill sets develop by what is practiced. If you practice shooting 100 yards benchrested id expect you to be good at shooting that distance accurately.

If you shoot offhand at 25 yard always, you'll learn to do that much better as you practice.

Its all perspective.

 

[FearnLoading]

Shooting 250 yards with a .177 springer while accounting for wind definitely requires some skill. The best I've gone with a .177 pcp is 150 yards where I would hit a 6 inch target 8 out of 10 times. Beyond that I haven't actually had the Open space to try. Now that you mention it, maybe I will try and stretch out my .177 and see how far can the baby actually shoot beyond 150. 

 

[scrane]

Some people enjoy benchrest, others like to hunt, and some are good spellers.

 

[Windmeister]

This is the age old equipment vs. man. It applies to everything from cooking to making art. The novice with some knowledge will blame success and failures on the equipment, didnt have the right brushes/paint/software/knives/pellets/gun/rest/racecar/bike/shoes/blablablabla. This is nothing new and will continue. The reality is that a skilled performer in any genre will take responsibility and do the best with what he got and usually will not excuse success or failure on the equipment he decided to use.

A novice can get lucky once or twice, the only true proof of skillset is consistency and the never ending hooning of the individual behind the tool.

I would like to mention another thing, and that is when good equipment becomes readily available, it raises the entry performance of novices all around. Which should come as no surprise, but going from good to excellent is a much longer walk, than from suckage to good. 
Everyone can go out and buy Photoshop and start creating visual "art" and some with a level sophistication, but that does not make them artists. 

 

[Pauls Custom Targets]

Alan, Skill applied to the shooting sports relies on many factors IMHO. For instance ,the person who is a deer hunter and sees their first deer has their heart rate pumping blood hard, the lungs breathing fast and loud, and the brain getting fuzzy. All this making the rifle shake and point all over the place. Generally the person misses and is labeled with the stigma of having buck fever!

Some people never lose this phenomenon through out their lifetime of hunting. Yes, they get "lucky" some times and get the deer. But most times not., (The beer can at 250 yard deal)

The truly skilled deer hunter learns to focus his mind and body to not be excited, and places a well aimed and lethal shot! This way the "skilled" hunter ensures a humane kill, and my favorite, a short or non existent need for tracking. A skilled hunter also learns the best bullet placement to make it DRT (dead right there) For instance, a neck shot in the deer's case, a head shot on a squirrel so it does not crawl off to die under brush, etc.

Giving a precise rifle to a newbie will not produce the poi groups of a more experienced shooter is true. But also putting a good "skilled" shooter with the same gun will not produce the accurate shots as a shooter that has mastered his rifle to the point of unbelievable. Case in point! Go to he Target Shooting post on the main page index here on AG and look at the Wanna be like Manabe challange. True, Mr. Manabe is shooting in his apartment at 13 meters for 100 shots, but I have not seen anyone match his targets yet for the past year since posted. Winning the 25 meter benchrest competition at last years (EBR) Extreme Bench Rest Competition, is proof that the 13 meters is not a hindering factor for him. He shot outdoors with some extreme winds. So his indoor apartment with no wind did not spoil his skill. That is what I call a skilled shooter! Just saying..... 

So to sum up I agree that AJ and erzerholden FernLoading and Windmeister All have good points. Here on this forum we comment on airguns specifically, and it takes a certain amount of skill to produce ANY results to be proud off. Let's face it, the airguns are not HMR.17s at 200 yds or .308 at 800 yds. They are super accurate within their normal limits of distance, What amazes me is when I read or see a vid where someone has tuned a rifle or developed a skill/method to stretch the rifle pellet way beyond their normal limits. For instance, trick shots like Ton Ton Doggie's vids or precision shooting like Mike Manabe. Also to do it repetitively with consistent results each time... Skill? You betcha!!!