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A few more Questions on Scoring 25m Indoor Targets

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dayjd

Member
Mar 21, 2016
364
73
Maine, United States
1. How many clubs use a light table to score their Targets? Where do you get them if you find them useful?

2. The World Benchrest rules state that once a target shot has been plugged it can not be plugged again. How does a set of targets get verified if a new record score was set? Personally, I believe a pellet hole can be plugged multiple times and still maintain the integrity of the first plug, but if the plug was not inserted straight into the hole I could understand how the hole could be enlarged. Is there a method to determine if a 10 ring score is legit or the X is obliterated with out plugging it a second time? In the past I have seen the .22 caliber plug be used in a 177 X ring hole to determine if the hole was indeed truly a X. If the X just isn't there any longer with no traces or shadows of the black lines it has been verified to be a X. If you can't plug a pellet hole to make a call on a X score then it would seem that the .22 pellet would still have a advantage over at .177 pellet. I'm just curious as to what the true method is when scoring cards in a sanctioned match. I'm a firm believer that we all should be using the same verification methods so please feel free give us your input on this topic. I think everyone could learn something about the right way to score a target, at least I would like to know.

Thanks to all of you that care to bring some light to this subject. 
 
Good question, I really don't know how they would do it if you can't insert the plug more than once.
An interesting option is the one with the N50 league, they use a different plug depending on the pellet or slug used, although the rating measure is the same. That is, if you shoot with .177 they use a plug to rate you at .35, if you shoot with .22 it is another plug for the same .35, so the target is not damaged with the plug (or the damage is minimal)

Jorge
 
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As far as I know if you protest a bull that has been plugged once….they are gonna plug it again. That’s what we do in N50 and Usarb. 

An interesting thing to note is that if a person pushes the plug to gain a point….you can let the paper rest and it will go back to normal….for the most part. You can also pretty easily see manipulated holes as they will have very different looking edges on the side closest to the center.

For testing purposes. I have taken a super close call and carefully plugged it 20 times and still got the same reading every time. The biggest problem is that many guys were using plugs with shanks that were too big for the caliber being shot.

The last few WRABF world championships were scored electronically and then protests were plugged. The electronic makes a fair number of mistakes. The logic was that a shooter would protest a bull if it was clearly incorrect. The fault in this logic is that shooters only protest lost points….not gained ones.

Mike


 
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1. How many clubs use a light table to score their Targets? Where do you get them if you find them useful?

2. The World Benchrest rules state that once a target shot has been plugged it can not be plugged again. How does a set of targets get verified if a new record score was set? Personally, I believe a pellet hole can be plugged multiple times and still maintain the integrity of the first plug, but if the plug was not inserted straight into the hole I could understand how the hole could be enlarged. Is there a method to determine if a 10 ring score is legit or the X is obliterated with out plugging it a second time? In the past I have seen the .22 caliber plug be used in a 177 X ring hole to determine if the hole was indeed truly a X. If the X just isn't there any longer with no traces or shadows of the black lines it has been verified to be a X. If you can't plug a pellet hole to make a call on a X score then it would seem that the .22 pellet would still have a advantage over at .177 pellet. I'm just curious as to what the true method is when scoring cards in a sanctioned match. I'm a firm believer that we all should be using the same verification methods so please feel free give us your input on this topic. I think everyone could learn something about the right way to score a target, at least I would like to know.

Thanks to all of you that care to bring some light to this subject.
Click to expand...

We use light tables here at Open Grove for all scoring, Would not even think about scoring without, it makes a tremendous difference. One can build it, have seen folks share their builds. I purchased from B&H Photo, they are not cheap, plus we host other disciplines so it is worthwhile for us. One also needs to have a scoring tray to place on top of light table, had ours made in clear plexiglass, I personally like the whole target lit up plus a good glass magnifier up to 10x.

The hardest point to score on these targets is the X ring, having the right tools like stated above will improve one's ability to score properly, plus the eye strain is very little.

Below is the light table I use, but a 11x18 would work also.

Joe

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24C9C096-46B6-4844-B2A3-DFDF5EA76A51_1_201_a.1626304365.jpeg

 
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Joe, I like the 25 hole scorer in the plexiglass it would likely allow more light to the bottom of the target. If the plug is inserted correctly it it should seal the hole and light from above or below should not be seen. I have purchased a 13" x9 1/4" LED light tablet from Amazon that is too small to be used in a 25 hole scorer but two side by side may be a solution at a cost of about $40 for two. I started this post to try to find out how other clubs were scoring there targets and what tools they were using. Personally I purchased the Eagle Eye, Carson Versalope 10X LED Magnifier, and the Gehmann scoring gauge with illuminated reticle. I think the plug with the Carson magnifier is the best way to view from above. The Gehmann is very good also but could be subjective on centering the .22 lazer cut hole as is the Eagle Eye. Unfortunately most pellets we shoot at 25 meters don't leave the clean holes wadcutters do.

We all should be using the same methods to score as possible and most accurate. Going forward I think if I thought I had shot three cards worthy of a record I would not have them plugged seeing the World Scoring rules only state they should not be plugged but only once. I would score them with the Gehmman to determine if indeed they were a potential record and ask another experienced scorer to do the same with out making any marks on the target. Without telling him what I thought the score was if his results were similar to my score I would consider having them submitted to the judges unplugged. 

Thank you for you input and going forward I will update this thread or start a new one if a better method of scoring is discovered. It still would be nice to hear from more Bench rest clubs as to their thoughts and ideas on this subject. Would there be any possiblity the pictured Plexi 25 hole scorer be made available to our Benchrest clubs?
 
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Bill, I wouldn’t worry about the world rule. Find the closest call on a target that you can and carefully plug it with the correct shank plug and I think you will find that no matter how many times you do it you will arrive at the same answer if you use the same technique. 

For a very long time….there were no 177 specific .224” plugs available so guys were using the larger shanked 22 cal .224 plug to score 177. Doing that altered the hole. If you have a .224” plug with a .177 shank….you will not be altering the hole.

Here is something I wrote a long time ago that addresses a lot of this.

https://www.usairriflebenchrest.com/notes-from-the-bench/target-tolerances-scoring/

Mike 



 
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Bill,

Normally USARB adhers to World Federation (WRABF) rules and policies, but not in this instance. We advocate the re-plugging of targets to verify scores, over other methods, for a couple of reasons. First, use of an Eagle Eye device is highly subjective and inefficient at determining perimeter of a ragged hole produced by a round-nose pellet. Secondly, thorough testing and experience has demonstrated that using a gauge where the probe (lower shank) is appropriately sized to the pellet hole caliber, produces results that are accurate and very repeatable. In the case of .177 pellet holes, the probe should be approximately .180" in diameter.

Precision scoring, that is comparable between multiple clubs and venues, is important and achievable if using the right tools. And I would prioritize them as follows: 1) Precision gauge (plug) with probe sized for pellet hole. 2) Sufficient magnification with included illumination, achievable with a variety of compact devices. 3) Target scoring tray to support the target and facilitate perpendicular placement of gauge.

Note that I did not list a light table as priority item. While certainly an asset, a light table's cost and power requirement makes it not feasible for some ranges.

Ron S.

member USARB Board of Directors
 
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