A pigeon at 100yards is similar to a deer at how many yards? A moose?

[Fuciliere]

Pigeons are very hard to take down if the shot is not placed well, that is at 50 yards, if you double the distance, then its more challenging for proper placement, besides that, pigeon is more available everywhere than a deer where you have to travel and spend a couple of days in the woods to hunt.

 

[delooper]

There is one advantage shooting air guns at pigeons compared to say, a powder-burner at deer. The ammo is cheaper, and often the targets are more readily-available. So you get more practice.

 

[Jungle_George]

Just show him this and say a physicist did a very simplistic calculation especially for him to comprehend:

Velocity / Mass = Momentum (Linear)
Momentum indexed with target

Airgun and Pigeon

Velocity = 950fps
Mass = 25Gr
Distance 100y
Target size (Kill Zone) = 1” sq

950 X 25 = 23750
23750 / 100 = 237.50
237.5 X 1 = 237.50 Index



Centre Fire Rifle and Deer

Velocity = 2500fps
Mass = 120Gr
Distance = 400y
Target Size (Kill Zone) = 20” sq

2500 X 120 = 300 000
300 000 / 400 = 750
750 X 20 = 15000 Index

Comparison (Indexed)
15000 / 237.50 = 63.15 Times more difficult to hit a Pigeon at 100yards than a deer at 400yards.

Not sure this is a very good comparison. Using the parameters listed above I ran the numbers for a howitzer. It turns out that it is 140 times easier to hit a deer in the vitals at 2 miles with a Howitzer than it is to take a deer at 400 yards with a 308.

I based it on an MV of 1640 FPS and 33-pound 105 mm projectile. I might have goofed up the math so please feel free to check it. The velocity and projectile weight were obtained off the internet which is famous for being correct 110% of the time.

I absolutely agree that a pigeon at 100 yards is a difficult shot and is quite impressive. There are so many variables that play into the question that it really is an apples to oranges comparison. I used to shoot long distance (1000-yard range) and one of my favorite guns was a 22-250 that shot a 53gn ballistic tipped bullet. I remember one day it was shooting particularly well so I put a golf ball out at 710 yards. It took me two tries to hit it. A golf ball is about 1 5/8 inches in diameter so at that distance it is about a 1/4 MOA target. The kill zone on a pigeon is roughly the size of a golf ball (plus or minus) so which is the better shot? I have shot golf balls at 100 yards with a pellet gun many times so here are my thoughts:

I feel like the time of flight for the 22-250 is longer (but not by a huge margin) at 710 yards than a pellet at 100 yards so the drop is going to be more with the 22-250, but I think the wind probably may have more effect on the pellet at the respective distances. I have shot golf balls at 100 yards with a pellet gun many times and when the wind consistent, then shot is not too difficult. My gut tells me that the 22-250 shot is more difficult but again, not by a huge margin.

So, with all that said, the pigeon at 100 yards with a pellet gun is probably a little more difficult than the deer at 400 yards with a 308. The point at which they become equal is dependent on many factors such as the gun, the scope, the quality of the ammo, etc. etc. etc. For example, to a scope, 100 yards is 100 yards and even an entry level scope will give you a decent picture at the distance. At 500 yards, mirage can really come into play. If I were to hazard a guess, assuming a good quality gun, scope, and ammo, equivalency is probably in the neighborhood of 400-600 yards.

Just my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it

 

[Vetmx]

I just choose to not compare the two. They are worlds apart. Airguns battle so much more than a real gun. You would probably be better off comparing an airgun to a crossbow.

 

[Richmeister]

Hand them the gun and tell them, "Ok, you hit it" and see what happens.....

Haha we know what would happen.....


M I S S

 

[BlackbirdPS]

thank you for all you comments. Made my day. Been a busy week and just check in now.

 

[abslayer]

As a person who does both it is a lot harder to hit that bird at 100 yds with airgun than a deer at 300 yds with my SM 270
A 300 yd shoot with my power burner is easy Have missed a lot of bird 75 yds and out with air gun

 

[steve123]

Ask your friends if they use a .17 centerfire on those 300 yard shots. When they say no, explain that's the equivalent of what you're doing.

I depends on which 17 caliber centerfire you're thinking about and the amount of wind present. See below

17 Rem/30gr Kindler Gold's/.27 G1BC/3500 fps/ gave close to 1 moa precision at 300Y - makes for a somewhat easy shot on 2-3 moa steel even with some wind. Actually an easy shot at 421Y on a turkey sized steel which I've done many times.

Depending on wind when using pellets at 100Y even a Pigeon can be a tough shot. No wind flags in 8-15 mph full winds some of my groups were 9" across. I'd hit my 3.6" wide steel 3/4's the time but when a let off or a gust came it was crazy how far out I'd miss by.

Would I miss a deers vitals(roughly 10") if shooting off a bench at 300Y with my 17Rem in the same winds - nope probably not because there's 7 min to 14 inch max drift/or 7" between 8 and 15 mph.

My big PB has 2.7" to 5.1" drift in the same scenario^^.

This is why I hardly shoot pellets at 100Y when its windy because it has become time for more BC IMHO. Some slugs with higher BC's can cut the drift by more than half that of the best pellets which is much more enjoyable to me and definitely more what I'd prefer to use on pigeons providing it was safe to use these when considering where they'd land in the background.

 

[c_m_shooter]

Take most deer hunters to a field target match and they will be humbled.

 

[Chuck-in-Ohio]

As a person who does both it is a lot harder to hit that bird at 100 yds with airgun than a deer at 300 yds with my SM 270
A 300 yd shoot with my power burner is easy Have missed a lot of bird 75 yds and out with air gun

Depending on what type of rest or support one has for the shot, I agree completely.

The PB crowd, that do not shoot air rifles, have no idea of the trajectory and wind doping involved in a "simple" 100 yd. shot from an air rifle.

As one who has done both as well, 100 yd air rifle shooting is every bit as challenging as long range center fire, let alone taking the shot at a pest from a hasty position.