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A Question to the Discriminating and Detailed Bench Marksmen...

...about “Being Drawn to The Shot”. Has this happened to you?

I’m talking about a previous shot on a target. Today, while practicing out to 50 using an 8.5 x 11 copy of an N50 card, I tried to put at least three shots in each of the 12 targets. I’d start at number one, end in number 12, then go back to 1, and each time rechecking wind and using the sighters available.

What I’ve noticed for a long time, even back to the shoot n see target days, it seems follow up shots get drawn to previous shots on the target. Didn’t matter to me back then as my rest wasn’t the best. But with my equipment upgraded and I try to cover all my bases during set up, I really took notice today. While aiming at that tiny center dot within a 3/8” circle, it didn’t matter if I adjusted elevation or held for windage, 90% of the time a second and even a third shot would land on where the first shot was placed. So some of the targets have all three within the X, some 3/4” away and low at 7:00 all stacked on top of each other, some 1/2” high at 1:00, again, all three on top of each other.

My questions: if wind was a steady factor of say 3-5 mph, does the angle of the shot from bench to target have a big play in this?(I’m on a slight 10 degree slope downwards from bench to target, btw). Three clicks left to right at 50 yards will show a change, right? In my case it doesn’t matter, the second shot lands on the first.

Or is it cheek weld sight picture thru scope? I make dang sure I have no black rims and my picture is wide open clear edge to edge.

Is it cant? My set up is a front tripod attached to arca rail and a ST rear monopod. I prelock my cant level with the ball head and unless I make a large swing left to right on the tripod, I never have to readjust the level.

Lastly, and I’m just throwing this out there- does it have anything to do with parallax adjustment not in “Sync” with a perfect ocular adjustment that’s typically done first when setting up a scope for the first time?

So before advising on this, just remember, my hold offs or windage/elevation adjustments are going to be as if I’m at a competition, a click or two there is usually what’s needed, so please don’t ask if I click over 10 clicks worth does it still follow the first shot, or hold off 3 whole MOA, because of course not it wouldn’t.

And remember, this is at 50 yards.
 
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Left to right quartering winds away from you tend to drive the pellet high. Quartering winds right to left coming towards you tend to push the pellet down. I think there are wind Roses cards that show impact with pellets based on wind direction available. Statistically it is unlikely that the wind is the exact same condition as the last time you shot that bullseye 11 shots ago so I can't speak for "Being drawn to the shot" events occurring. maybe keep a log journal on wind conditions each shot next time you do this. record wind direction and it might help with identifying a cause to help you tracking it down.
Thx
Dan
 
I had the same thing happen with a new scope and then figured out it was parallax error. That's the first thing I'd check since it's easy when the gun is on a solid rest. If it's not that then I'll be curious what else you find. Good luck!
Can you go into more detail on your parallax error? What caused you to realize it was parallax error and what did you do to fix it? Three things come to mind that can affect this error, one is improperly focused side wheel or not having your ocular adjustment perfect, or a combo of both. We’re any of these the culprits?
 
@Bigragu Augie, you know I don’t compete and that I am not the best shot. However, I have been seeking information on improving my shooting as well. Consequently, a concept that I came across recently is “natural point of aim” (NPA). My basic understanding is that NPA is the correlation between how your gun aligns with the target and how your body aligns with your gun. From what I’ve been reading and listening to, poor positioning or changes in positioning can affect our shots (POI). I’m still learning so I don’t feel comfortable trying to explain this in further detail. Just something to think about if you had not considered it among other possible factors.

To answer your question, I’ve experienced a similar thing when testing ammo, zeroing my scope out further, or just in target practice. I will turn the windage turret only to see shots hitting the same spot as before. I have some ideas about why it happens to me, but I haven’t found a definite answer to correct the problem.
 
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@Bigragu Augie, you know I don’t compete and that I am not the best shot. However, I have been seeking information on improving my shooting as well. Consequently, a concept that I came across recently is “natural point of aim” (NPA). My basic understanding is that NPA is the correlation between how your gun aligns with the target and how your body aligns with your gun. From what I’ve been reading and listening to, poor positioning or changes in positioning can affect our shots (POI). I’m still learning so I don’t feel comfortable trying to explain this in further detail. Just something to think about if you had not considered it among other possible factors.
Totally understand and appreciate the input.
Since posting this topic, as I’ve gone thru the rest of my day I’ve truly been stewing over what could be the cause of this. Couple of things I forgot to mention, is the target holder is my mulch bucket on a beat up step stool. Where I have it set out at is along an irrigation canal levi thst runs behind my house. I’ve tried my best at shimming tithe front of the stool so the target bucket is plumb. It’s not perfect and the bucket still has a slight tilt forward so the target thru my scope isn’t perfectly flat, if you understand. It may look like it is but it’s not.

The second thing is the angle of the target, is it square to my view. That, also, I try my best when setting it up I stand behind the bucket while facing the window I’m shooting out of, to make sure that the target isn’t skewed sideways to my view.

I’ve had friends pick up my mulch bucket targets and all have mentioned how heavy they were, but believe this when I say a measly 22 cal pellet at 940 fps can start rotating the bucket CW or CCW all depending on which side of the target you shoot more at. It’s way worse when I shoot 30 cal into it.

I remember when at RMAC I noticed all my shots didn’t have so much of the down curve effect like a right handed pitchers curve ball like I get at home. I know my own set ups aren’t perfect with shooting down hill at a 10 degree slope and my targets not facing me perfectly square. It was actually a real treat not to see that type of movement in my shots.

I’ll have to dig deeper to find out if those are truly the causes, or a part of, that makes some of my shots drawn to previous shots
 
In my case it was a fixed parallax scope. I usually shift my head postion side to side slightly once the rifle is locked down and my body doesn't have any influence on it. If your reticle moves off the target you are seeing parallax error.

Parallax to infinity, maximum magnification(I've also heard medium magnification if the reticle stays crisp through the max mag), look at the sky (blue or gray), and set diopter from there until everything is crisp and clear.

Don't look too long because your eyes will adjust.

look, look awake, look again. Walk away for a new minutes and repeat.

Video to help.


Hope this helps and you get it all figured out!
 
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You shoot with mag so easy test for possible parallax error. In calm condition try this:
- shoot 3 consecutive shot without changing your cheek pressure or eye position at all
- shoot 3 shoots but 1 shot at a time with a full reset or get off the gun then get back in position

If the groups are bigger/sporadic with reset then You have parallax error. Interestingly another way to reduce/eliminate parallax error is to move your eye back more so you see the black ring but make sure the rings is even around the image, that virtually eliminates any parallax error.




As far as drawn to the first shot is very likely just your focus. Just like riding bike or motorcycle you go where you look, focus on where you want the pellet to hit and pretend first shot doesn’t exist…….or use fresh paper.🤣
 
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Since you are noticing this phenomenon when shooting from the same setup at the same time, I don't think any of the variables you mentioned would cause what you report. As Churchill said of the Russians, "it is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma." But if you find the answer, please post it.
@elh0102 Does it not makes sense that movement of the pellet trap may factor into the equation? If the trap moves, so should the rifle and shooter to a certain degree. When he mentioned that, it wasn’t really a thought at the moment. However, when I shoot I know my traps move and when I think about it I can see the new angles created causing some sort of shift in POI. I’ve wondered about this in the past, especially shooting big bores. My .25 can also move a pellet trap turning it sideways slightly.
 
@elh0102 Does it not makes sense that movement of the pellet trap may factor into the equation? If the trap moves, so should the rifle and shooter to a certain degree. When he mentioned that, it wasn’t really a thought at the moment. However, when I shoot I know my traps move and when I think about it I can see the new angles created causing some sort of shift in POI. I’ve wondered about this in the past, especially shooting big bores. My .25 can also move a pellet trap turning it sideways slightly.
Yes, it could have an effect, but I don't think it would show the kind of consistent repeatability suggested here.
 
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@elh0102 Does it not makes sense that movement of the pellet trap may factor into the equation? If the trap moves, so should the rifle and shooter to a certain degree. When he mentioned that, it wasn’t really a thought at the moment. However, when I shoot I know my traps move and when I think about it I can see the new angles created causing some sort of shift in POI. I’ve wondered about this in the past, especially shooting big bores. My .25 can also move a pellet trap turning it sideways slightly.
maybe fasten your trap so it cannot move ?
 
I’ve sometimes noticed similar when shooting the 30 Yard Challenge cards - similar PoIs occuring in the same COLUMNS of the card.

So, I don’t think it is wind, parallax or even cheek pressure… I think it is body position. You have some very slight shift in your body position as you move the rifle to point at the various targets across the row. When you return to your Target #1, your body position returns to the way it was the last time you shot Target #1.

As a simple test of this, after you complete 12 shots, simply stand up. Even better would be stand up and slightly reposition your chair - then sit down and shoot.

I’m guessing by “ forcing” a slight positional change of your body, your second 12 shots won’t “follow” your 1st twelve - like you’ve been experiencing…

… if this works, then you’ll still have to solve for how to adjust body position to not influence PoI - but at least you’ll know the source…

… if it doesn’t work… it didn’t cost you hardly any time or money to test… and that‘s rare in the airgun world, lol.

Good luck,

-Ed
 
Hi Bigragu & team,

I shot this card today - submit for discussion that the “shots following shots” phenomena may be due to body positioning…

I shoot the rows from left to right and top to bottom.

The leftmost column puts me in the most extreme position when sitting on my chair. Note that my misses seem to be going to the same spot.

On the last two rows shooting the leftmost targets, I told myself to shift my butt to the right a bit… it seemed to work.

Now it’s just a theory, but I was thinking about this thread while shooting this card - and eventually thought to shift body a bit to maintain same body alignment as I have on targets to the right of left column.

-Ed

IMG_2791.jpeg
 
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Checking parallax you might want to see while gun is on target and being yours is on a tripod and rear monopod it'll be dead still. So then while not touching the gun move your head around and see if yhe reticle moves around on target at all. If it doesn't then your parallax is good but if not that could be the issue. I've had it where I think it's good and focused but was still alittle off. Might not be your issue but could be.
 
It is a matter of Physics . The second pellet has a field of less resistance to slip through the existing hole in the target paper rather than having to push the air away from the solid sheet target paper in front of it .
Now if you believe that then i have a laser guided pellet to sell you . That was just what popped into my thoughts when i read your question .