Adding water inside your CS4?

[RedTide]

so I have one that looks very similar but it is black, I got it from airguns of Arizona.. mine is a Omega trail charger and it's worked perfectly for im guessing around 8 years..
guessing that this one in the video is a cheap knock off.. plus AOA has parts and service.. yes it is all English and they are very helpful if you need anything.
Mark

Per @markhooper the CS4 is a cheap knockoff of the Omega Trail Charger, but per @MACTEN GX makes the Omega Trail Charger. So, is GX making a cheap knock off of their own product? It's quite possible. Or is the Omega Trail Charger just an overpriced CS4?

 

[MACTEN]

Per @markhooper the CS4 is a cheap knockoff of the Omega Trail Charger, but per @MACTEN GX makes the Omega Trail Charger. So, is GX making a cheap knock off of their own product? It's quite possible. Or is the Omega Trail Charger just an overpriced CS4?

He was only guessing as that would be a fair assumption based on price alone. And the GX factory told me they make them. I don't fault Omega at all.. It's possible they have better quality control required and a paint scheme they want as well as the price of having their logo added to the machines. Why don't you look at the new thread I started and the chat I got from GX Pump on Alibaba's factory direct sales and decide.

 

[markhooper]

RedTide and MACTEN.. I'm sorry I didn't follow what you were saying.. I don't know if the compressor is related or not. just saying that it was configured the same as the Omega trail charger.. and mine has ran perfectly.. myself I'd contact AOA if I had trouble with it because they are a good place and helpful.
as far as price I don't remember what I paid.. guessing around $6-800? it's been a long time.. I don't know what they are costing now or the brand in the video.. it's also possible that they are made by the same company but different labels and possibly different quality? I don't know..
unfortunately I don't get around AGN or most things with the computer, lots of times I see something and can't find it again.. I don't know how to find your other thread..
of anyone else knows a couple of things about this site, I would really like to know..
how do I find threads again? so far it's been a little easier since I clicked on follow thread.. but then I have other people I find most everything they post is interesting so I clicked follow on them but nothing shows up.. any ideas?
I might be good at fixing things, but internet is not easy for me.. if it helps any, I only use my phone here, I know that things are different with a phone vs computer..
thanks for the conversation
Mark

 

[RedTide]

@markhooper, here's the url to the thread @MACTEN started on the GX CS4.

GX CS4-I Arrived.

I recently ordered and received the GX CS-4-I for range trips and not to have to try to be as careful with the power supply. (Works great btw) But as many of us have wondered if these units are the same as Omega compressors . They are. I simply asked the GX manufacturer if they were while...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[F6Hawk]

disassemblely from following this destructive video.. that was the grease pot they were putting water in.. water is going to ruin the bearings quickly.. it's likely the quickest way to need a new compressor..
I'm glad it's posted here, I have a very similar Omega trail charger and I was able to see the label on the grease pot where they were adding water..
Mark

There are no bearings inside the piston assembly to ruin. If there were, every time you ran the compressor, you'd be ruining them while sucking air (and therefore water) into the same area.

All this does is to flush the grease intake path with water, and allows any released debris & water to be exhausted via the usual water purging route while running.

 

[markhooper]

There are no bearings inside the piston assembly to ruin. If there were, every time you ran the compressor, you'd be ruining them while sucking air (and therefore water) into the same area.

All this does is to flush the grease intake path with water, and allows any released debris & water to be exhausted via the usual water purging route while running.

no I believe that the grease pot is for lubricant for the crank and rod.. I don't think for one minute that the grease pot in any way adds grease to the air compressor cylinder.. you would end up pumping grease with the air and you don't want grease and high pressure air to mix.. reminds me of someone who put lubricant oil in the intake and the compressor dieseled and immediately threw a rod.. just like you don't put gun oil in the chamber of a spring gun..
you must not be familiar with compressor.. not even a shop air compressor puts lubricant in the compression chamber..
so there's no way at all that flushing the grease pot with water will clean the valves.. all it will do is destroy the compressor.. just like if someone tells you to put water in the oil on your car.. id hope you wouldn't try that..
Mark

 

[markhooper]

I'm pretty much done with this, if someone thinks adding water to the grease pot that lubricate the crank and main bearings and rod is going to clean out the chamber or piston, well I guess it's about time for them to add water to the car motor oil.. water goes into only the coolant system, grease lubricate the bottom end and the pistons run dry.. if one were to actually think about it assuming that the falsehood was believed.. do you really want water in the cylinder? it could easily deadhead, if not that then rust all the internals and then put water in your gun?
come on.. let's have just a little bit of common sense..
Mark

 

[markhooper]

There are no bearings inside the piston assembly to ruin. If there were, every time you ran the compressor, you'd be ruining them while sucking air (and therefore water) into the same area.

All this does is to flush the grease intake path with water, and allows any released debris & water to be exhausted via the usual water purging route while running.

water through the grease pot is not going to come out of the regular purge route.. it's about time someone posted a parts diagram so some people have a clue how this functions..
but go ahead and knock yourself out and try it.. just plan on having money for your new compressor.
even if it did what you claim, you don't want water in the grease pot period!
if it is so dirty inside that the valve and piston needs cleaned, it is time to take apart and clean with the proper stuff.. enough said..
Mark

 

[BlackICE]

water through the grease pot is not going to come out of the regular purge route.. it's about time someone posted a parts diagram so some people have a clue how this functions..
but go ahead and knock yourself out and try it.. just plan on having money for your new compressor.
even if it did what you claim, you don't want water in the grease pot period!
if it is so dirty inside that the valve and piston needs cleaned, it is time to take apart and clean with the proper stuff.. enough said..
Mark

I agree 100%, adding water is at best is 1/2 donkey way of fixing the problem the right way. The grease pot is also a 1/2 donkey way of lubing the cylinders. I can't see how the grease port is going to distribute the lube throughout all 4 stages in the right amounts where needed. Convenient but not the most effective way. It would be better to disassemble and add lube where needed. The CS2 and CS3 are 3 stage compressors of similar design and they don't have a grease pot, but instead you must disassemble to lube them.

 

[markhooper]

I agree 100%, adding water is at best is 1/2 donkey way of fixing the problem the right way.

I've been a mechanic, welder and machinest all my life.. might as well add water to your engine oil.. it really upsets me about some insisting that this could be right.. some poor person just might think it is true..
at best you might barely get away with it until your compressor fails from your incompetence.. but more likely you will have permanently fixed the compressor and need a new one..
reminds me of a neighbor that anytime he decided to fix the car, even minor things, he needed a new car before the day was over.. some people just need to have someone else do the service and don't touch the tools..
it can't be stressed enough not to put water where lubricant is supposed to be.. recipe for disaster.
Mark

 

[BlackICE]

For the record, and just to put a stop to the emotional distress in this thread...

The burst disc is NOT the grease pot.

The ball valve in question is located under the BURST DISK. I cannot verified the veracity of putting a few drops of water into the chamber under the bust disk to clean the ball valve.

The is no reason for anyone to put water in the grease pot. Stop being silly.

The grease pot feeds into the crank area on the outside of the pump. You can get a small bit of (grease) blow by through the piston rings, but that would contaminate the ball valve even more.

Watch the video more closely, he is putting water into the grease port, not under the burst disc!

 

[Ta-Ta Toothie]

The water he adds gets pushed out the purge valve, so the grease pot has to lubricate the cylinder.

 

[Ta-Ta Toothie]

no I believe that the grease pot is for lubricant for the crank and rod.. I don't think for one minute that the grease pot in any way adds grease to the air compressor cylinder.. you would end up pumping grease with the air and you don't want grease and high pressure air to mix.. reminds me of someone who put lubricant oil in the intake and the compressor dieseled and immediately threw a rod.. just like you don't put gun oil in the chamber of a spring gun..
you must not be familiar with compressor.. not even a shop air compressor puts lubricant in the compression chamber..
so there's no way at all that flushing the grease pot with water will clean the valves.. all it will do is destroy the compressor.. just like if someone tells you to put water in the oil on your car.. id hope you wouldn't try that..
Mark

Watch the video again and see where the water goes... I would bet the crank, rod etc., have brass bearings. Keep in mind, the pump assembly is low rpm.

 

[MACTEN]

I have had my first CS4 apart. My grease pot was about empty without me going twist crazy or anything like that so I had to investigate. The yellowish grease that matched what I had seen in the grease pot, was inside the crank area and a white grease was inside the cylinders.
Two very distinct and different greases. I have no idea where the grease pot grease is supposed to go, but after seeing the same grease pot colored grease all over the crank area I made the assumption it went there.
When I put mine back together I cleaned the pistons well and lightly re lubricated with the EP recommended grease (food grade) grease that would make sense inside cylinders as it won't detonate and can withstand high pressure and temps if it has to. This grease would also make sense inside the grease pot if it in fact lubes the crank so I filled the cup up with it there as well.
I took a peek inside just to be sure things were working as they should and all was well after another 2.5 hours on the machine.
As I said, I'm not 100% sure what grease goes where, but either the factory dumped all the yellow grease into the crank case, emptied my grease pot so it wasn't full, and lubed with a different grease in the cylinders by mistake, or this was the way it was designed. And I am not 100% sure which is right.

 

[Ta-Ta Toothie]

The video clearly shows the water that was added was sent out the purge hose, not saying some of that can't also be lubeing other areas. It definitely serves the piston area.

 

[F6Hawk]

I took my compressor apart when I first got it (the engineer in me made me do it, I swear!).

The only bearings are in the crankcase below the piston, and the ONLY way for water in the piston area to get into those bearings would be to blow out the cylinder wall or base, period.

Every. Single. Time. you operate your compressor, there is water inside the piston area, unless you are feeding your compressor pure nitrogen. Not as much as they are pouring into the grease pot, but think about how much water you purge over (10) 1-hour pumps. Catch that water and save it for measuring sometime. It will add up. And it comes from inside the piston assembly.

The grease pot squeezes the grease (or allows to be sucked into) the upper side of the piston/wall area, the same place that water will begin to form during use.

 

[markhooper]

Watch the video again and see where the water goes... I would bet the crank, rod etc., have brass bearings. Keep in mind, the pump assembly is low rpm.

100% correct information although I already watched it several times and I'm guessing that a small amount might have made it into the air intake.. if you look closely he spilled water all over the top.. it is very likely that it got inside the tin cover and who knows where.. could even get in the electric parts like switches..
Mark

 

[markhooper]

I have had my first CS4 apart. My grease pot was about empty without me going twist crazy or anything like that so I had to investigate. The yellowish grease that matched what I had seen in the grease pot, was inside the crank area and a white grease was inside the cylinders.
Two very distinct and different greases. I have no idea where the grease pot grease is supposed to go, but after seeing the same grease pot colored grease all over the crank area I made the assumption it went there.
When I put mine back together I cleaned the pistons well and lightly re lubricated with the EP recommended grease (food grade) grease that would make sense inside cylinders as it won't detonate and can withstand high pressure and temps if it has to. This grease would also make sense inside the grease pot if it in fact lubes the crank so I filled the cup up with it there as well.
I took a peek inside just to be sure things were working as they should and all was well after another 2.5 hours on the machine.
As I said, I'm not 100% sure what grease goes where, but either the factory dumped all the yellow grease into the crank case, emptied my grease pot so it wasn't full, and lubed with a different grease in the cylinders by mistake, or this was the way it was designed. And I am not 100% sure which is right.

so to be clear when you rebuild, or build there's assembly grease.. it can be different colors and colors change with temperature and age..
I have no doubt that they put assembly grease on the piston parts for assembly, I think you assumption that the grease pot is for the crank area is 100% correct..
also like the video and was said here it's a low speed compressor.. which helps for long life..
Mark

 

[markhooper]

The video clearly shows the water that was added was sent out the purge hose, not saying some of that can't also be lubeing other areas. It definitely serves the piston area.

video also shows water being poured, spilled on the top of the case.. don't you think it is likely that some got sucked into the intake? also water and grease don't mix.. so if the grease pot was feeding the cylinder.. you would have a mixture of water and gummy grease coming out the bleeder..
it's very evident from the video that it's definitely not feeding the cylinder because water doesn't compress.. and with the amount of water that was put in the grease pot area.. it would hydro lock the piston if it actually fed into the cylinder and destroy it immediately..
I believe you could get similar video of you just left the grease pot cover on and set the compressor running outside in the rain .. the intake is going to suck in moisture, water and it's going to collect in the trap..
please understand I definitely don't recommend running it outside in the rain..
notice there's no grease and water mixture coming out of the bleeder.. if you were actually introducing water through the bleeder into the cylinder and it didn't destroy anything, you would definitely see water and grease coming from the bleeder..
water and grease don't mix.. so it definitely would be a mess..
Mark

 

[Ta-Ta Toothie]

Grease pot supplies the cylinder, end of story. Open the video in youtube, and click on the description.