Adding water inside your CS4?

I took my compressor apart when I first got it (the engineer in me made me do it, I swear!).

The only bearings are in the crankcase below the piston, and the ONLY way for water in the piston area to get into those bearings would be to blow out the cylinder wall or base, period.

Every. Single. Time. you operate your compressor, there is water inside the piston area, unless you are feeding your compressor pure nitrogen. Not as much as they are pouring into the grease pot, but think about how much water you purge over (10) 1-hour pumps. Catch that water and save it for measuring sometime. It will add up. And it comes from inside the piston assembly.

The grease pot squeezes the grease (or allows to be sucked into) the upper side of the piston/wall area, the same place that water will begin to form during use.
I have no idea why you took it apart when you first got it, you didn't say anything about it being broken.. I'd use warranty myself because once you take it apart, usually warranty is void.. but ok.. your compressor..

your second paragraph is totally correct.. those bearings in the crankcase are what the grease pot is lubricating..

3rd paragraph..yes you are correct that water is in the cylinder area every time you use it.. but it doesn't come in liquid form.. liquid doesn't compress.. but water vapor in the air condenses when compressed and that is what you see coming out of the bleeder when you bleed off the water trap and air.. myself I actually after filling the gun, and turning off the compressor and open the bleeder turn the compressor back on for a minute with the bleeder open to help clear out all the moisture possible. mostly just to help prevent corrosion from said moisture.. just like I drain the shop compressor tank to empty the water that condensed from the air..
now 4th paragraph is wrong.. I'm sorry.. so if the grease pot was feeding the top of the cylinder it would cause 2 possibilities.. if the grease pot doesn't have a check valve, the high pressure air would actually come out of the grease pot.. notice the grease pot is not sealed. period.. secondly if it was somehow feeding the top of the piston you would have grease coming out of the bleeder every time you turn the grease pot.. and at least I don't..

id really like someone to post a parts diagram of the compressor in question and it would be fairly easy to see the route the grease takes.. honestly I'd post it myself and highlight it for everyone to see, but while I am good at fixing things, and I have rebuilt multiple shop compressors.. I'm not good enough with computer/ phone to know how to post a diagram.. I just recently learned how to put up a simple picture on here.. I'll freely admit I'm not good with the Internet and computer because things keep changing faster than I can keep up..

note.. our PCP compressors are multi stage, just like my shop compressor is 2 stage and goes to 175 psi.. and it is oil lubricant..
PCP compressors have two main different styles.. high flash point oil lubricant in the crank case.. or oil less that just the crank bearings are lubricant with high flash point grease and it's on the Omega trail charger food grade grease just in case some gets past the crankcase into the air, because the compressor is breathing air rated and you don't want to breathe petroleum vapor if at all possible.. especially if it is your air source.
Mark
 
Grease pot supplies the cylinder, end of story. Open the video in youtube, and click on the description.

View attachment 442724
ok.. alright.. do it if you want.. please understand that things are not always correct on video and please remember that when we buy things made in a different country translation is not always correct.. I've personally read some other instructions that were so mixed up that they were not correct.. you have to understand how things work if you are going to have success with fixing it..
I'm sorry, I don't know what else to say.. believe what you want, and fix it your way.. it's you machine..
myself.. sorry but this thread is exhausting and I have said enough..
sorry I can't help you..
Mark
 
I have no idea why you took it apart when you first got it, you didn't say anything about it being broken.. I'd use warranty myself because once you take it apart, usually warranty is void.. but ok.. your compressor..

your second paragraph is totally correct.. those bearings in the crankcase are what the grease pot is lubricating..

3rd paragraph..yes you are correct that water is in the cylinder area every time you use it.. but it doesn't come in liquid form.. liquid doesn't compress.. but water vapor in the air condenses when compressed and that is what you see coming out of the bleeder when you bleed off the water trap and air.. myself I actually after filling the gun, and turning off the compressor and open the bleeder turn the compressor back on for a minute with the bleeder open to help clear out all the moisture possible. mostly just to help prevent corrosion from said moisture.. just like I drain the shop compressor tank to empty the water that condensed from the air..
now 4th paragraph is wrong.. I'm sorry.. so if the grease pot was feeding the top of the cylinder it would cause 2 possibilities.. if the grease pot doesn't have a check valve, the high pressure air would actually come out of the grease pot.. notice the grease pot is not sealed. period.. secondly if it was somehow feeding the top of the piston you would have grease coming out of the bleeder every time you turn the grease pot.. and at least I don't..

id really like someone to post a parts diagram of the compressor in question and it would be fairly easy to see the route the grease takes.. honestly I'd post it myself and highlight it for everyone to see, but while I am good at fixing things, and I have rebuilt multiple shop compressors.. I'm not good enough with computer/ phone to know how to post a diagram.. I just recently learned how to put up a simple picture on here.. I'll freely admit I'm not good with the Internet and computer because things keep changing faster than I can keep up..

note.. our PCP compressors are multi stage, just like my shop compressor is 2 stage and goes to 175 psi.. and it is oil lubricant..
PCP compressors have two main different styles.. high flash point oil lubricant in the crank case.. or oil less that just the crank bearings are lubricant with high flash point grease and it's on the Omega trail charger food grade grease just in case some gets past the crankcase into the air, because the compressor is breathing air rated and you don't want to breathe petroleum vapor if at all possible.. especially if it is your air source.
Mark
I took it apart because that is what I do. (Did the same thing when I bought my brand new ECM Synchronika espresso machine last year, and most everything I buy smaller than a vehicle) IOT understand fully how a machine works, and what "right" looks like during its operation, I need to see the internals. (Had I found a good YT video on disassembly/assembly, I wouldn't have had to take mine apart, but I never found one to my liking.)

No, the grease from the pot NEVER touches the bearings. Impossible, unless you blow out the bottom of the cylinder casing. The grease from the pot is pushed into the gap between the piston and the cylinder wall, and friction from the rubber spreads it all over the cylinder walls. And yes, water (humidity) can exist in there as well, but it doesn't mix with the grease, it gets forced out the exhaust. But if you took your cylinder apart after an hour run, you'd likely see beads of condensation on the metal parts of the piston itself.

If you removed the grease pot and the diaphragm, it would become the air intake; it is plumbed in the same location as the actual air intake.

1709676838162.png


And no, the bearings are NOT brass bushings, they are high-quality needle bearings. Which are lubed at assembly with the same silicone/food grade grease that's in the pot, but the only way to re-lube them is to take the cylinder assembly OFF and lube them by hand. It is impossible for the grease to get from the pot, travel down the cylinder walls, escape the big O-ring between the piston and cylinder wall, and leak into the crankcase housing. The ONLY thing that can get into the crankcase of a properly-functioning unit is ambient air from the vent at the back.

1709676961624.png


1709676982024.png


1709677020353.png


1709677052855.png



Look, if you don't want to trust the manufacturer's guidance to flush the cylinder with water, don't. The worst that will happen is you'll develop a leak that requires disassembly and cleaning (a rather simple task, really). But why would someone who makes such a fine compressor (thus far) and give instructions that would ruin it? That doesn't make any sense at all.
 
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ok.. alright.. do it if you want.. please understand that things are not always correct on video and please remember that when we buy things made in a different country translation is not always correct.. I've personally read some other instructions that were so mixed up that they were not correct.. you have to understand how things work if you are going to have success with fixing it..
I'm sorry, I don't know what else to say.. believe what you want, and fix it your way.. it's you machine..
myself.. sorry but this thread is exhausting and I have said enough..
sorry I can't help you..
Mark
Mark, when the heck did I say adding water was an good idea? I simply passed along what the manufacturer had suggested. I may suck at writing, but you equally suck at reading. Go back to the beginning of the thread and start over. And maybe due some research before talking out your rear end.
 
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I took it apart because that is what I do. (Did the same thing when I bought my brand new ECM Synchronika espresso machine last year, and most everything I buy smaller than a vehicle) IOT understand fully how a machine works, and what "right" looks like during its operation, I need to see the internals. (Had I found a good YT video on disassembly/assembly, I wouldn't have had to take mine apart, but I never found one to my liking.)

No, the grease from the pot NEVER touches the bearings. Impossible, unless you blow out the bottom of the cylinder casing. The grease from the pot is pushed into the gap between the piston and the cylinder wall, and friction from the rubber spreads it all over the cylinder walls. And yes, water (humidity) can exist in there as well, but it doesn't mix with the grease, it gets forced out the exhaust. But if you took your cylinder apart after an hour run, you'd likely see beads of condensation on the metal parts of the piston itself.

If you removed the grease pot and the diaphragm, it would become the air intake; it is plumbed in the same location as the actual air intake.

View attachment 442741

And no, the bearings are NOT brass bushings, they are high-quality needle bearings. Which are lubed at assembly with the same silicone/food grade grease that's in the pot, but the only way to re-lube them is to take the cylinder assembly OFF and lube them by hand. It is impossible for the grease to get from the pot, travel down the cylinder walls, escape the big O-ring between the piston and cylinder wall, and leak into the crankcase housing. The ONLY thing that can get into the crankcase of a properly-functioning unit is ambient air from the vent at the back.

View attachment 442743

View attachment 442744

View attachment 442745

View attachment 442747


Look, if you don't want to trust the manufacturer's guidance to flush the cylinder with water, don't. The worst that will happen is you'll develop a leak that requires disassembly and cleaning (a rather simple task, really). But why would someone who makes such a fine compressor (thus far) and give instructions that would ruin it? That doesn't make any sense at all.
great pictures thank you.. looks like that one has the sealed roller bearings.
as far as trusting the manufacturer, those instructions were not for my model..
glad you are able to take things apart before using them.. I appreciate your input and pictures and decent conversation..
you seem to be thoughtful and able to take care of things and that's good 😊
myself since that's not the same model as mine is, well I'd just take apart the valve, which to my understanding is what was leaking air and clean it.. the other possibility is since only part of the instructions for the compressor video were posted is since I only got to see the little bit posted was possibly putting water in the intake could be similar to trouble shooting a engine compression test by adding a little oil in the spark plug hole and see if compression goes up.. vs tearing down the engine to see what the actual problem was..
regardless I would not myself mix water in grease..
now I am serious, I know that we likely agree and disagree on things but I really appreciate your conversation and pictures.. you are actually contributing to helping spread knowledge..
I also think it is wonderful that you are able to take apart new things.. that's wonderful.. myself, my whole life has been taking apart busted things and repairing them, be it shop air compressor, engines, balers, or whatever..
I do often get frustrated waiting for some parts and make my own.. but it's life..
thank for being friendly
Mark
thank you
 
Mark, when the heck did I say adding water was an good idea? I simply passed along what the manufacturer had suggested. I may suck at writing, but you equally suck at reading. Go back to the beginning of the thread and start over. And maybe due some research before talking out your rear end.
I've read it over several times and you are probably right about me reading the thread..
I know that it's no excuse but I haven't been well, other friends I have on here understand since unless you know what someone else is going through you can't possibly understand.. but I don't remember outright being insulting to you.. if I did. I'm sorry. . I'm sorry for disagreeing with you.. I just was going off my years of fixing engines and shop compressors..
I said more than was helpful for the conversation with you and I'm sorry.
hopefully we can have a more friendly conversation about something else later on.
best wishes to you..
mark
 
I've read it over several times and you are probably right about me reading the thread..
I know that it's no excuse but I haven't been well, other friends I have on here understand since unless you know what someone else is going through you can't possibly understand.. but I don't remember outright being insulting to you.. if I did. I'm sorry. . I'm sorry for disagreeing with you.. I just was going off my years of fixing engines and shop compressors..
I said more than was helpful for the conversation with you and I'm sorry.
hopefully we can have a more friendly conversation about something else later on.
best wishes to you..
mark
You didn't have to leave thumbs down twice for starters. Anyway, water under the bridge.
 
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You didn't have to leave thumbs down twice for starters. Anyway, water under the bridge.
thank you.. I'm sorry.. I just left the thumb down because I believe it would cause damage and I left the thumb down because I thought it was how you showed you didn't agree.. I'm not sure how the forum works, would you like me to go back and change it,if it is possible? I'm sorry.. glad you accept it is water under the bridge..
thank you
Mark
 
thank you.. I'm sorry.. I just left the thumb down because I believe it would cause damage and I left the thumb down because I thought it was how you showed you didn't agree.. I'm not sure how the forum works, would you like me to go back and change it,if it is possible? I'm sorry.. glad you accept it is water under the bridge..
thank you
Mark
It would be nice if you can. Not the end of the world.
 
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great pictures thank you.. looks like that one has the sealed roller bearings.
as far as trusting the manufacturer, those instructions were not for my model..
glad you are able to take things apart before using them.. I appreciate your input and pictures and decent conversation..
you seem to be thoughtful and able to take care of things and that's good 😊
myself since that's not the same model as mine is, well I'd just take apart the valve, which to my understanding is what was leaking air and clean it.. the other possibility is since only part of the instructions for the compressor video were posted is since I only got to see the little bit posted was possibly putting water in the intake could be similar to trouble shooting a engine compression test by adding a little oil in the spark plug hole and see if compression goes up.. vs tearing down the engine to see what the actual problem was..
regardless I would not myself mix water in grease..
now I am serious, I know that we likely agree and disagree on things but I really appreciate your conversation and pictures.. you are actually contributing to helping spread knowledge..
I also think it is wonderful that you are able to take apart new things.. that's wonderful.. myself, my whole life has been taking apart busted things and repairing them, be it shop air compressor, engines, balers, or whatever..
I do often get frustrated waiting for some parts and make my own.. but it's life..
thank for being friendly
Mark
thank you
Forgive me, I have already forgotten, but which model do you have? (Side note - I only became interested in the GX pumps after finding out a neighbor has the CS3; he invited me over for a top-up, and MAN was I impressed with the quietness, speed, and apparent quality of the CS3!! So that night I ordered a CS4.)

Well, I cannot say I would have come up with the idea of putting water into the grease pot to "clean things out", but knowing what little I know from having taken mine apart, I realize it won't do ANY damage to the unit.

Now, if I suspected debris inside the piston area, I would take the cylinder apart, wipe it clean, re-grease it by hand (light coat over all surfaces), and re-assemble it. I suspect GXO has put this video out for people who are reluctant (or unable) to disassemble their compressors.

Glad my pictures help in any way. By no means to I profess to know more than you nor ANYONE who has owned these CS compressors for awhile (I've only had mine for a minute or two), but as I said above, I like to KNOW how a machine works and therefore take them apart to get the functions in my mind's eye before I even turn it on. Been doing that since I was a kid (My dad once bought me a rather expensive bait-casting reel, and man was he MAD when he walked into my bedroom and saw parts laying on the floor from me taking it all apart!! But from that day forward, I could have taken it apart, trouble-shot it, and re-assembled it with no problems).

Sometimes I come across the wrong way; already, I have made a mortal enemy here on AGN by asking a question about HPA hoses in an Alkin thread (Some of those owners seem to be wound a bit tightly IMO), but I am always seeking knowledge, and the two best ways I know how to obtain it is:
1) Ask those who have gone before, and
2) Tear it apart and figger it out myself!

Thanks for the constructive dialogue. This forum is awesome because it allows each of us to share our knowledge and experiences. Alone, we are individuals with basic knowledge. Together, we are a group with the COMBINED knowledge and experience.

Here's to many, MANY years of use of our CS pumps, and sharing what we all have learned. Though I have only been an AGN member for a short while, I am very pleased with the wealth of knowledge and skills presented here on these forums.

P.S. Rogue River, OR... sounds like a beautiful, rugged place! I am jealous. Never heard of it before. Please tell me it is nature at its finest...
 
I've read it over several times and you are probably right about me reading the thread..
I know that it's no excuse but I haven't been well, other friends I have on here understand since unless you know what someone else is going through you can't possibly understand.. but I don't remember outright being insulting to you.. if I did. I'm sorry. . I'm sorry for disagreeing with you.. I just was going off my years of fixing engines and shop compressors..
I said more than was helpful for the conversation with you and I'm sorry.
hopefully we can have a more friendly conversation about something else later on.
best wishes to you..
mark
Mark,

I too would have felt the same way as you, having rebuilt car engines and torn down compressor cylinders back in the day. I was surprised to learn in my CS4 tear-down that there is NO metal-to-metal contact inside the cylinder housing... only rubber-to-metal. The crank has bearings, so of course metal-to-metal, but it really felt like high quality needle bearings were used. Absolutely ZERO play when I removed and inserted the pin from the crank; in fact, it too a little bit of finesse to re-assemble it.

The piston/cylinder assembly is completely self-contained, if you look closely at a couple of my pics.

Now I wish I had taken more pics when I had it apart, and maybe some video footage. Maybe next time... Perhaps I will do a 10 (20?)-hour tear-down just to document the progression of wear in the system.
 
Per @markhooper the CS4 is a cheap knockoff of the Omega Trail Charger, but per @MACTEN GX makes the Omega Trail Charger. So, is GX making a cheap knock off of their own product? It's quite possible. Or is the Omega Trail Charger just an overpriced CS4?
your guess is good as any.. could be identical, could be a cheaper version from the same company.. it's really hard to say nowadays.. sometimes companies will say that they are identical just to make a sale.. now there's 3 Omega trail chargers. as far as I know.. one like mine with the grease pot, another one that I have read from others is better quality and the transformer is inside and no grease pot at all.. the third one is twin cylinder and rated for filling scba bottles since it much faster fill time since it has two cylinders for faster compression..
Mark
 
I'm thinking Nope!
Doesn't look like a good idea to me.
Mind you some idiots put stupid ideas out on Youtube and even sillier people believe them (such as microwaving an expensive camera, etc).
how about the stupid person who put their little dog in the microwave to dry out? that had to be a horrible experience for both the owners and the poor dead dog.. sad but unfortunately true
mark
 
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I feel even dumber for buying one 🤣
don't worry I've made similar mistakes.. caused a car accident from buying a Ramsey winch for my rollback trailer.. no one was hurt, the vehicle I was towing up, no damage.. vehicle hit had bumper damage and my insurance covered it.. but I disassemble the winch and discovered that the freewheel lever actually moved a splined gear to engage the final drive.. and I couldn't believe my eyes.. it was the place that got the most torque and someone had the wonderful idea that it was spring loaded to engage but it was totally made out of plastic and it was even so out of round it didn't fully engage.. I promptly made it fully engaged, Ramsey sent me a new out of round splined gear and I made bushings that forced it to stay locked in gear and just powered out.. I thought Ramsey and Warren were the top brands and didn't touch another winch until I was introduced to the pierce arrow brand.. it was built as good if not better than the old original Warren winches..
we just do the best we can.
Mark
 
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GX makes the Omega. Confirmed by the manufacturer to me when I asked while ordering the CS4-I.
it's good to know, but I'm curious what Omega would say.. honestly I don't believe much of anything a sales person says.. now if they gave you a parts diagram and order list and it said that both were compatible with parts.. then other than wondering if the quality is better on one than the other.. it likely the same..
Mark
 
It would be nice if you can. Not the end of the world.
just checking in with you, I think I have them all changed to a sad face, only because I don't agree 💯 with the video mess and also unfortunately I don't have any proof of water coming out of the bleeder from putting in water in the grease pot.. because it could have been likely sucked in with the water he spilled on top of the machine.. my Omega trail charger used to do that in logsden Oregon with such high humidity.. id often fill part way, bleed off water and then continue filling.. and that was just a tube gun.. american tactical liberty nova 22..
after watching the video at least 4 times, I couldn't help but notice the second time he put water in it didn't go down?
regardless of what manufacturer says, I'd never put water in any lubricant area.. in fact if I was rebuilding a engine, and had to pressure wash it out inside because it wouldn't fit in my solvent tank.. I always did a final spray of solvent after blowing it off with the compressor and then I still used assembly lube on the piston, cylinder, crank bearings and cam.. I likely missed listing something but you get the idea hopefully.
please let me know if I got them all changed.. and if it is acceptable..
hopefully we can get to know each other over time and share information that benefits both of us..
I still haven't learned how to work this site, so I can use a lot of help in that area, I don't have a clue exactly how, let's just say a avenger regulator works because I have seen 3 diagrams and none were alike and I have actually taken apart a shop regular and never quite figured out how it works exactly.. but of course it was already not functioning.. and there's likely something else I don't understand.. most people don't respond to my questions, likely my fault since they might have been a conversation going a different way and possibly between a few friends and I wasn't part of the group?
so I guess, if everything is ok with you now, maybe we can get a good conversation going.. through PM if it is good for you?
Mark
 
I took it apart because that is what I do. (Did the same thing when I bought my brand new ECM Synchronika espresso machine last year, and most everything I buy smaller than a vehicle) IOT understand fully how a machine works, and what "right" looks like during its operation, I need to see the internals. (Had I found a good YT video on disassembly/assembly, I wouldn't have had to take mine apart, but I never found one to my liking.)

No, the grease from the pot NEVER touches the bearings. Impossible, unless you blow out the bottom of the cylinder casing. The grease from the pot is pushed into the gap between the piston and the cylinder wall, and friction from the rubber spreads it all over the cylinder walls. And yes, water (humidity) can exist in there as well, but it doesn't mix with the grease, it gets forced out the exhaust. But if you took your cylinder apart after an hour run, you'd likely see beads of condensation on the metal parts of the piston itself.

If you removed the grease pot and the diaphragm, it would become the air intake; it is plumbed in the same location as the actual air intake.

View attachment 442741

And no, the bearings are NOT brass bushings, they are high-quality needle bearings. Which are lubed at assembly with the same silicone/food grade grease that's in the pot, but the only way to re-lube them is to take the cylinder assembly OFF and lube them by hand. It is impossible for the grease to get from the pot, travel down the cylinder walls, escape the big O-ring between the piston and cylinder wall, and leak into the crankcase housing. The ONLY thing that can get into the crankcase of a properly-functioning unit is ambient air from the vent at the back.

View attachment 442743

View attachment 442744

View attachment 442745

View attachment 442747


Look, if you don't want to trust the manufacturer's guidance to flush the cylinder with water, don't. The worst that will happen is you'll develop a leak that requires disassembly and cleaning (a rather simple task, really). But why would someone who makes such a fine compressor (thus far) and give instructions that would ruin it? That doesn't make any sense at all.
I'm going to make some observations on your pictures.. only thing is I wish there were more.. maybe later?
mine is a Omega trail charger so it could be different, I don't have time to disassemble working machines, seems like I'm always playing catch up on repairs here and for friends and neighbors..
so picture 1.. the blue thing with white ends, is that the intake filter? do you know what they put inside, and is it serviceable or disposable?
have you removed the head and the grease pot or grease pot and air intake? interesting thing,my grease pot doesn't have a diaphragm..and I'm not sure how that would work.. seems like it would seal the grease to one side..the grease pot is pretty much identical to the grease caps on old machinery. reason I am asking is I have been fooled working on something that it appears to go to one place but they have intricate passages that take it elsewhere.. just wondering, possibly if you take it down at a later time you could pm me some more pictures.. yes I love pictures..
picture 2 looks suspicious, because the way the grease is around the rod and crank it really looks like my excavator or tractor when you grease a pin and it squeezes out.. makes me think it is more than just grease from assembly.. is there a hidden plug? ball joints on a F350 have a plug instead of a grease zerk.. I always replace it with a zerk to lubricate, especially loggers work truck because they get so much mud and grime and they are half a day work changing them, so with the grease zerk I can pump extra grease and flush it out and then just wipe up the excess.. my only other thought is that it has a split race, like a crank end rod bearing and they just packed it full before assembly? but since it's got a very good looking piston end rod bearing, looks like very good quality it doesn't seem like it would be any different on the crank bearings..
picture 2 and 4 and 5
you didn't post pictures of the cylinder dissembled.. so I am actually wondering what it looks like inside.. id think at minimum it's got to be a 3 stage or more.. so inside the cylinder housing there has to be more cylinders inside each other.. would be nice to see..
comments.. it's very nice to see the quality bearings, and not bushings.. makes me think that it will have a long life.. I'm not convinced by the picture that the grease actually goes into the intake.. id assume that but like I said, I have been personally fooled looking at a part and then finding out after disassemble that it had passages other places..
yes the water will bead and come out, especially if the cylinder walls have grease rub in.. I'm curious now if you have had the cylinder disassemble? are they using rubber o ring for piston rings? id assume that would be the weak spot if so, but I would expect rings like a hydraulic cylinder instead, longer life for the seals..id also assume that each stage has more than one ring on the piston?
I'm wondering what the inside of the cylinder is like.. I have a couple airbag compressor and they are not standard oil bath.. they are ceramic lined and coated with Teflon.. short duty cycle and they are high speed and get hot.. not so good for long life but they have been around a long time and still going..
makes me wonder how well the crankcase is vented, I wouldn't try it with the high pressure, unless I could verify it was safe but some high temperature high quality bearing grease in those roller bearings would make them last forever.. but if any vapor could get from them it could possibly go into the cylinder and diesel and then the compressor would be done at best.. could be pieces everywhere...
ok nothing getting into the crankcase is not necessarily true.. it's why the high speed oil bath compressor has to get it's oil changed frequently.. some amount of moisture gets past the rings.. this is the best advantage of the slow speed and oil less compressor.. likely it vapor out the vent.. instead of contaminating the oil in the crank case..
does the entire cylinder have a water jacket around it? couldn't tell from the picture.. man that would be the first thing I'd have to disassemble and likely need a seal kit.. there's got to be a water jacket and multiple cylinders inside it.. and depending on how tight the fit it would likely need a ring compressor if it has o rings for piston rings to keep from nicking one..
at the end of the day, I don't think I could bring myself to put water in the grease.. it's just something that doesn't mix.. and ultimately In normal life the water would keep the grease from lubricant properly, so it will be like running without lube for a bit.. and well I have seen a few too many diesel engines that lost a head gasket or EGR cooler and it put coolant into the engine and ejected the rod out the side of the block.. I just couldn't even force myself to try that and not expect disaster.
mark
 
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Forgive me, I have already forgotten, but which model do you have? (Side note - I only became interested in the GX pumps after finding out a neighbor has the CS3; he invited me over for a top-up, and MAN was I impressed with the quietness, speed, and apparent quality of the CS3!! So that night I ordered a CS4.)

Well, I cannot say I would have come up with the idea of putting water into the grease pot to "clean things out", but knowing what little I know from having taken mine apart, I realize it won't do ANY damage to the unit.

Now, if I suspected debris inside the piston area, I would take the cylinder apart, wipe it clean, re-grease it by hand (light coat over all surfaces), and re-assemble it. I suspect GXO has put this video out for people who are reluctant (or unable) to disassemble their compressors.

Glad my pictures help in any way. By no means to I profess to know more than you nor ANYONE who has owned these CS compressors for awhile (I've only had mine for a minute or two), but as I said above, I like to KNOW how a machine works and therefore take them apart to get the functions in my mind's eye before I even turn it on. Been doing that since I was a kid (My dad once bought me a rather expensive bait-casting reel, and man was he MAD when he walked into my bedroom and saw parts laying on the floor from me taking it all apart!! But from that day forward, I could have taken it apart, trouble-shot it, and re-assembled it with no problems).

Sometimes I come across the wrong way; already, I have made a mortal enemy here on AGN by asking a question about HPA hoses in an Alkin thread (Some of those owners seem to be wound a bit tightly IMO), but I am always seeking knowledge, and the two best ways I know how to obtain it is:
1) Ask those who have gone before, and
2) Tear it apart and figger it out myself!

Thanks for the constructive dialogue. This forum is awesome because it allows each of us to share our knowledge and experiences. Alone, we are individuals with basic knowledge. Together, we are a group with the COMBINED knowledge and experience.

Here's to many, MANY years of use of our CS pumps, and sharing what we all have learned. Though I have only been an AGN member for a short while, I am very pleased with the wealth of knowledge and skills presented here on these forums.

P.S. Rogue River, OR... sounds like a beautiful, rugged place! I am jealous. Never heard of it before. Please tell me it is nature at its finest...
okay so this one is going to make people laugh at both of us 🤣.. my compressor is the older one, they have two more new ones and I believe they still have mine too.. the new ones are better and more expensive.. the top one is double cylinders and pumps double the air but it is AC only.. not battery or transformer..

so you took apart a fishing reel 🤣 I'm guessing that I was 10 or so and I got the bright idea of taking the spokes off the bicycle wheel, I forgot what I was trying to do, but I think I was trying to put a 3 speed hub on a single speed dirt bike wheel and I ended up with a pile of spokes and the two hubs and rims.. you didn't say what happened with the fishing reel but my grandfather had to get the spokes put back in at the bicycle shop because I couldn't figure out the order and it was definitely not straight.. I was in trouble.. and only allowed to use the spoke tool for tightening up the spokes under supervision 🤣🤣
you'll never make a enemy with me unless you resort to calling me bad words.. or if either of us had something to sell and the money or thing didn't happen.. I don't tolerate being cheated.. lost a lot of money farming because seemingly trustworthy people asked for credit and got hay, but I never got the money.. it was really good hay, OSU said it was the best in Oregon every year in testing.. I couldn't believe it, but they did a complete analysis and since it was so good quality they came out and took soil samples and they wanted all the details and wrote a paper on it to help struggling neighbors farms.. so it benefitted others.. 😊😊
lastly I took have learned a lot from others.. unfortunately two problems.. I have only made a few friends on here and I was very lucky that he was friendly and invited me to shoot with him.. I got to shoot guns I probably can't afford to touch someone else's 🤣🤣🤣
the other thing is I didn't get along good with my generation but most of my friends were my parents age or even grandparents age.. those old timers, best thing to do is ask questions and just listen.. they have seen it all and done it all also they worked harder than most, did without a lot during the depression and well I think we could hope to be half as good and knowledgeable about practical things.. they even know things that are not written down or mapped.. for me it's hard, they have all passed.. I miss them.. fortunately I still have my parents. they mean the world to me.. it's one thing I can't tolerate with the younger generation.. lots could care less about their parents..
ok last part.. hopefully I don't disappoint you.. Rogue River Oregon.. I live 12 miles out of town, end of the road, end of the power line and it's a beautiful forest, similar to where I grew up and lived my life but not rugged and wonderful as where I grew up.. but it is better than where I grew up now comparing the two.. I used to live out of North Fork California.. but way out of I.. just below mammoth pool.. South of Yosemite.. I could ride my horse with or without a string of horses behind me and half a day be on the back side of half dome..I grew up and lived totally off grid..electricity and phone and snow plow ended 13 miles away. also thanks to old maps and old timers I knew where every cave and mine was.. even ones not on the maps.. one even had a old steam engine in front of it and another one had a unique winch donkey and a crusher on opposite ends with the engine in the middle.. so when you grow up like that it's hard to find anything that is as wonderful.. but it's all burned down and the USFS collapse all the mine intrenses they knew about and scrapped all the antiques they found.. but if I compare both places currently this area is better..
if you want to talk about it more you are welcome to PM me and I can send you pictures of the area and continue having great conversations. I hope you enjoy the pictures I tried to attach
Mark

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it's good to know, but I'm curious what Omega would say.. honestly I don't believe much of anything a sales person says.. now if they gave you a parts diagram and order list and it said that both were compatible with parts.. then other than wondering if the quality is better on one than the other.. it likely the same..
Mark
I don't think asking Omega is a good idea. The person I was speaking to wasn't a sales person.
I have zero doubts that the machines are likely manufactured in PRC. I also think Omega is justified in the price they come up with due to whatever they have invested in their versions of these machines. Omega also covers their products and I bet their warranty beats GX. All that being said. I'd rather spend less.
 
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so picture 1.. the blue thing with white ends, is that the intake filter? do you know what they put inside, and is it serviceable or disposable?

have you removed the head and the grease pot or grease pot and air intake? interesting thing,my grease pot doesn't have a diaphragm..and I'm not sure how that would work.. seems like it would seal the grease to one side..the grease pot is pretty much identical to the grease caps on old machinery. reason I am asking is I have been fooled working on something that it appears to go to one place but they have intricate passages that take it elsewhere.. just wondering, possibly if you take it down at a later time you could pm me some more pictures.. yes I love pictures..

picture 2 looks suspicious, because the way the grease is around the rod and crank it really looks like my excavator or tractor when you grease a pin and it squeezes out.. makes me think it is more than just grease from assembly.. is there a hidden plug? ball joints on a F350 have a plug instead of a grease zerk.. I always replace it with a zerk to lubricate, especially loggers work truck because they get so much mud and grime and they are half a day work changing them, so with the grease zerk I can pump extra grease and flush it out and then just wipe up the excess.. my only other thought is that it has a split race, like a crank end rod bearing and they just packed it full before assembly? but since it's got a very good looking piston end rod bearing, looks like very good quality it doesn't seem like it would be any different on the crank bearings..


picture 2 and 4 and 5
you didn't post pictures of the cylinder dissembled.. so I am actually wondering what it looks like inside.. id think at minimum it's got to be a 3 stage or more.. so inside the cylinder housing there has to be more cylinders inside each other.. would be nice to see..
comments.. it's very nice to see the quality bearings, and not bushings.. makes me think that it will have a long life.. I'm not convinced by the picture that the grease actually goes into the intake.. id assume that but like I said, I have been personally fooled looking at a part and then finding out after disassemble that it had passages other places..

yes the water will bead and come out, especially if the cylinder walls have grease rub in.. I'm curious now if you have had the cylinder disassemble? are they using rubber o ring for piston rings? id assume that would be the weak spot if so, but I would expect rings like a hydraulic cylinder instead, longer life for the seals..id also assume that each stage has more than one ring on the piston?
I'm wondering what the inside of the cylinder is like.. I have a couple airbag compressor and they are not standard oil bath.. they are ceramic lined and coated with Teflon.. short duty cycle and they are high speed and get hot.. not so good for long life but they have been around a long time and still going..

makes me wonder how well the crankcase is vented, I wouldn't try it with the high pressure, unless I could verify it was safe but some high temperature high quality bearing grease in those roller bearings would make them last forever.. but if any vapor could get from them it could possibly go into the cylinder and diesel and then the compressor would be done at best.. could be pieces everywhere...

ok nothing getting into the crankcase is not necessarily true.. it's why the high speed oil bath compressor has to get it's oil changed frequently.. some amount of moisture gets past the rings.. this is the best advantage of the slow speed and oil less compressor.. likely it vapor out the vent.. instead of contaminating the oil in the crank case.

does the entire cylinder have a water jacket around it? couldn't tell from the picture.. man that would be the first thing I'd have to disassemble and likely need a seal kit.. there's got to be a water jacket and multiple cylinders inside it.. and depending on how tight the fit it would likely need a ring compressor if it has o rings for piston rings to keep from nicking one..

at the end of the day, I don't think I could bring myself to put water in the grease.. it's just something that doesn't mix.. and ultimately In normal life the water would keep the grease from lubricant properly, so it will be like running without lube for a bit.. and well I have seen a few too many diesel engines that lost a head gasket or EGR cooler and it put coolant into the engine and ejected the rod out the side of the block.. I just couldn't even force myself to try that and not expect disaster.
mark
Pic 1 is a desiccant air drier I made, but it's far too small for my local humidity. I plan to make one that is much larger in the future, if I find that my small filter and molecular sieve on the output side aren't drying the air sufficiently. There's a pic of before and after pumping in my CS4 thread: https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/2024-cs4-setup.1307075/post-1683019

Yes, I removed it all, and it appears to be a straight hole into the cavity between the piston head and cylinder wall, right next to the air intake.

The grease is just "slathered" on the crank bearings. There is no way that I say to get the grease inside the needle bearings other than by hand. I'll look harder next time, now that you made me think about it. But when I had it apart, I took some of the excess grease from the sides of the bearings and forced it inside the bearing, where the pin goes thru.

Yeah, I didn't want to fool with disassembly of the piston itself. I figure that will happen when this thing wears down and needs new seals. According to GXO, it's a 4-stage compressor.

The grease and air intake most likely have separate ports, but they enter the cylinder wall right next to each other from what I could tell.

Sorry, I failed to take a pic of the piston removed from the cylinder wall itself. My bad. The seals appeared to be of the "wiper" variety as opposed to round o-rings. IOW, it fits into a groove, and has a flap of rubber that sticks out a bit farther and rubs along the cylinder wall, sort of in a cupping motion, if that makes sense. (Had I taken that dog gone pic, it would be much more clear, grrr)

If you look at the last pic, you'll see the bottom of the piston assembly is solid, and seals against the cylinder wall around. Not saying a drop of water COULDN'T squeeze past that wiper seal, but I think it's unlikely. The crankcase vent is simply 7 small holes on the back of the machine; you can see it easily if you look at your machine. Nothing fancy, just allows air in and out as the piston moves.

There is no oil in this crankcase, just crank, grease, and air.

No, water does not circulate around the cylinder wall; look at how thin it is. Didn't measure it, but I'd guess 2-3mm thick. The water only seems to cool the head block. Only one cylinder and piston.

Don't try and equate this compressor to a diesel or gas engine. Totally different. I had no idea how different until I took it apart. I was trying to see how the 4 stages worked in concert. But short of taking the piston apart, I can only imagine that are two stages inside, and air is compressed in both directions, hence the 4 stages. Just a WAG at this point, however.

Hopefully I addressed all your questions. Feel free to ask about anything I may have missed, and I'll do my best to answer you!
 
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