Advice on scope for Lelya 2.0- TOUGH:)

Good morning everyone



i bought a Leyla 2.0. Love the size and how accurate it is for a idiot like me out of the box. I currently have a Dedal on it. But it needs to go back on the Leshiy. And I feel the Leyla can go beyond what the Dedal will give magnification wise (might be wrong as the scope is very good for a newbie like me).



i have read on here that one should spend at least as much on the glass as on the gun... gulp. Ok bitter pill. But honestly I would like to stay around $1K if possible and not higher. I am looking for a tough scope. I’ve said it before, I’m clumsy. So the mount and scope need to be tough and not loose POI if possible. Go hiking in woods, in and out of backpack. Etc. I am willing to go over $1k if I need. But wanting to stay at that price of possible.


any recommendations on a good model. I don’t have brand loyalty yet to any scope. The Dedal is sick (again newbie).


give me your experienced thoughts.



thank you

Gabe






 
I have one of these coming next week for mine. I currently have a Nightforce NX8 2.5-20 on it. It is great but heavy. I like about 6-10X most of the time. This one may fit the bill. Fingers crossed. BTW... the TS 12X is 9.6 inches long.

US Optics 3-12x42mm Non-Illuminated FFP MHR Reticle .1mrad TS-12X-MHR

1588336511_4770488355eac177fcbfe45.92945488.jpeg



 
How far are you planning on shooting? Do you have a preference over the amount of magnification you want/need? You just said you want more than 6x, but that still leaves a very wide range of available magnificaiton. For that rifle, I assume it is more of a stalking/hunting type of tool, also based on your other comments. If so, you won't need a lot of magnification, and if that is the case, you most likely also don't need to spend $1k. This is coming from someone who likes $1k scopes, but not in lower power scopes. 

I thinking starting with the ranges you want to shoot and what you are shooting at, can at least give us a little more to go on to help you decide. Do you have a preference yet over FFP or SFP?
 
1588344343_17150246305eac36173a6bb2.90586142.png



thinking maybe this one above?

Good questions. Thank you.


I am used to FFP because I just started. So I guess stick with that for now? Unless SFP is better in closer range...

maybe 2-10 or 3-15X??? 
I have looked at 1-8x AR style scope that I thought would be a good choice.



range would likely be 30-80 yards. No more then 100 as my skill is barely hovering at consistent shots on paper at 50 yards right now.



if I am hunting then likely pigeons / doves. Maybe quail / turkey if I decide to drop the money for those hunting trips. 


im realizing more and more. Hunting and Kosher don’t really go hand in hand. Unless it’s deer season and well a .25 Lelya won’t cut it caliber wise or legal wise in FL.


does that help?
Vortex / Athlon upper end scopes ? Maybe those would be a good choice?
 
Good Doctor,

I think it would be important to analyze the kind of shooting you're planning on doing -- and then buy a scope that will serve those particular needs.

Many insist on a minimum parallax of 10y, but some are fine with 20y because they only take farther shots....

The fascination of a small light gun is tremendous, but can easily be nullified with a 14-inch long scope, weighing almost a couple of pounds....

Are you going to adjust your point of aim (POA) with the turrets (dialing for every shot)? Or with the reticle (holdoffs)?

The difference between FFP and SFP is huge (if you use holdoffs), and you need to find what suits your style of shooting.

Some hate illumination, some won't buy a scope without it.

Most shooter would agree that it makes sense to have turrets and reticle talking the same language (MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL), but a lot of scope manufacturers seem to disagree.... Go figure.



Without knowing any more about your shooting than you shared, I'd say that you might enjoy:

Short scopes (you got a short gun, for backpacking)

Light scopes (you got a light gun)

10 yard minimum parallax (you got an airgun, not a powder burner, so your quarry will be much closer -- why limit yourself to 20 yards min...)



Variable magnification (instead of a fixed magnification). I know that this adds weight and bulk, but the flexibility of shooting a vast variety of ranges that a variable magnification gives would be more important to me -- but that's me, you have your own priorities.

FFP (for rushed shooting as in hunting situations, using the reticle to hold off the POA is easier than dialing the turrets, and FFP allows you to memorize only one set off holdoffs for different ranges, no matter what magnification you use)

Turrets –– exposed turrets, or capped turrets, or locking turrets: If you plan on dialing your turrets to adjust your POA you probably won't want capped turrets. However, turret settings will get changed when you carry the gun in a backpack, so for that locking turrets would be an important feature. Capped turrets offer you a similar protection against inadvertedly changed turret settings, but if you want to dial your turrets... -- taking off your turret caps every time you shoot gets really old really fast.



Side parallax (many prefer the side turret to adjust for parallax to the AO (adjustable objective), the latter requiring to reach further forward)



Illuminated reticle (because the woods can be dark, and some animals come out just when the lights go out; also the FFP reticle gets really thin at small magnifications, and by turning the illumination on you can still see the reticle rather well)

Sturdy scopes, or scopes with a sturdy warranty (for backpacking). Lifetime warranty from a reputable seller or brand can make up for quality that is below the my-life-depends-on-it quality level.



The bottom magnification is important for quick target acquisition in rushed shooting (= hunting while stalking). A field of view (FoV) of 30ft at 100y distance I personally consider fairly good. 20ft is rather narrow and has me searching for my quarry longer than it might stay around for me to get a shot off. A FoV of 30ft at 100y usually translates to a 3x (or 4x) bottom end magnification (note that every scope is different, so do check the scope specs, there are some good and some bad surprises).



The top end magnification is important for several things: (a) To see the target or quarry large enough to hit it. For that you don't need that much, say at most 9x or 12x for 50y. 16x or 20x for 100y. But more if your eyes have seen a lot in life already (read, when they are not that young anymore). | (b) To see the hits in the paper target. For that you'd need more magnification than mentioned in (a).... And expensive (= clearer) glass helps a lot. | (c) For ranging the distance to your target, say for field target. That's another story, ask the FT guys. 



Price.... I'm glad you can afford a four-digit priced scope. Cool. The saying you quote ("Spend as much on the glass as on the gun") -- sure, scope purist believe it and live by it. And everyone decides on their personal priorities. However, I believe the saying originated in a time when quality in a scope cost much, much more than today. Even scopes made in China and sold at a price point are surprisingly clear, and often have features that more expensive scopes by more traditional scope makers do not offer.





There is a recent post that includes three Scope Spec Lists that cover and compare those features, and some others:

  • Short Scopes (any magni*) -and- 3-12x, 3-9x *[any magnification if at least 3-9x]
  • 4-14x Magnification, also 3-18x, 4-20x, and similar
  • 6-20x Magnification, also 6-24x, 5-25x, 4-20x, and similar

LINK:
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/%f0%9f%94%b4150-scopes-comparison-in-3-scope-specs-tables/



Happy scope shopping! 😊

Matthias


 
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I was in the same boat with my 25 Lelya, but didn’t have the price range you have. Most of my scopes on my powder burners are Vortex and Leupold. I had a 1-4 patrolman on the Lelya, but not enough magnification. I wanted something small and light weight. On my Leshiy I put the Tac Vector 3-12-44 ( 225 or so) and it was clear with the right magnification for the Leshiy. Scope went with the Leshiy when I sold it. I bought the Discovery 4-16 compact for the Lelya. OK scope, but the Tac Vector was clearer and brighter....I will probably buy another Tac Vector for my Uragan 22 compact I just got....

Tony P
 
I was in the same boat with my 25 Lelya, but didn’t have the price range you have. Most of my scopes on my powder burners are Vortex and Leupold. I had a 1-4 patrolman on the Lelya, but not enough magnification. I wanted something small and light weight. On my Leshiy I put the Tac Vector 3-12-44 ( 225 or so) and it was clear with the right magnification for the Leshiy. Scope went with the Leshiy when I sold it. I bought the Discovery 4-16 compact for the Lelya. OK scope, but the Tac Vector was clearer and brighter....I will probably buy another Tac Vector for my Uragan 22 compact I just got....

Tony P

I hear you. I have the money, but it doesnt mean i need to spend it. And i am really double thinking it. I based it off what many centerfire friends would tell me. Many of them carry nothing but nightforce on their guns. Talk about money... ugh :( Crazy, but awsome for them :)

Tac Vector??? let me look at it. I think i am going to put the Dedal on the Leshiy for now. And see what you all have recommended. Right now i am leaning to a Atholon. lower midrange of their models. Get used to the rifle and using a scope better. When i get bettter, maybe i can justify getting more. I am trying to stick to FFP. It is really helping me with my eyes as i am aging. The reticle enlarging has been a blessing on higher magnification.




 
I have one of these coming next week for mine. I currently have a Nightforce NX8 2.5-20 on it. It is great but heavy. I like about 6-10X most of the time. This one may fit the bill. Fingers crossed. BTW... the TS 12X is 9.6 inches long.

US Optics 3-12x42mm Non-Illuminated FFP MHR Reticle .1mrad TS-12X-MHR

1588336511_4770488355eac177fcbfe45.92945488.jpeg



Wondering how this ended up working out on your Lelya 2.0? 
 
Well I ended up getting the Tac vector and a Athlon, as two rifles needed scopes. The Athlon will go on the Marauder. The Tac Vector on the Lelya. The Dedal just seemed to fit the Leshiy like a glove.



I don't have uber expensive optics, but I do my best not to purchase made in China scopes.

If I were in your shoes, I would have procured these, as the weight is acceptable, and the length is just a little over 12":



https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Viper-PST-Closeouts.aspx



MRAD FFP



https://www.eurooptic.com/vortex-viper-pst-25-10x32-ffp-ebr-1-mrad-reticle-pst-43104.aspx



MOA FFP



https://www.eurooptic.com/vortex-viper-pst-25-10x32-ffp-ebr-1-moa-reticle-pst-43103.aspx



I have 2 Vortex optics, and I love their superb warranty, albeit I have not used it yet, lol!

The above scopes are made in the Philippines (I was born there 😁), and although their parallax is 35 yards to infinity it should fit your hunting set-up.

You could always minimize the aforesaid aberration by reducing the magnification, you know.

Moreover, the objective bell is only 32 mm, so it reduces the phenomenon furthermore.

It is a Gen 1 PST, but the price is good enough to overlook the Gen 2's capability to focus down to 20 yards.

The Gen 2, if you have not looked it up yet, is almost 2x the price:



https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Viper-PST-2-10x32-EBR-4-MOA-PST-2101.aspx



It does look sleeker though sans the illumination switch atop the eye bell 
 
I went with a SFP scope for my Lelya. My reasoning was it’s for short to medium (15-75yds) ranges. So a 3-12 or 15 variable works for me. If I set it to 3x, I can actually see the reticle. With a FFP scope you’re going to see a jumble of hash marks at low powers, so it’s basically useless until you increase magnification to 7x and up.


If I need the hash marks for hold-offs, it means I have the time to crank to 10x and make a longer shot. For any shot from 14-50yds my setup is plus or minus .45”. Or 2 pellet diameters So just hold “On” and shoot.


A shorter and lighter scope makes sense for the Lelya. A long, two plus pound scope defeats the purpose. Something less than 11” looks best to my eye. And weight around a pound seems best..to me. 


I went with an Optisan 3-12x32 https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/optisan-cp-3-12x32p-with-the-mil-mh10x-reticle/

Here’s what it looks like on my Lelya 

55ADBF9E-0370-4D7B-90F6-D7405C56903A.1623046959.jpeg




 
I have one of these coming next week for mine. I currently have a Nightforce NX8 2.5-20 on it. It is great but heavy. I like about 6-10X most of the time. This one may fit the bill. Fingers crossed. BTW... the TS 12X is 9.6 inches long.

US Optics 3-12x42mm Non-Illuminated FFP MHR Reticle .1mrad TS-12X-MHR

1588336511_4770488355eac177fcbfe45.92945488.jpeg



Wondering how this ended up working out on your Lelya 2.0?

I find the turrets and reticle to be accurate. The glass is quite clear and reticle is crisp. Size and weight are on point for a short Bullpup.

The reticle gets too fine at and below 6X. I would say it is usable at 6-12X.

Hands down I prefer the Dedal Stalker for my use. Although I do like to dial when plinking and such, I really like the speed of the fixed 6X and extremely forgiving parallax of the Dedal.

The new March shorty looks like an amazing optic... but wow the cost. I think I will likely end up getting one. I just need to move some other items to make room in the wallet🥺
 
I was hesitating posting here because I didn't want to bring March into the picture, but having spoiled myself on a purchase of a used March a couple of years ago I just cannot go back to a 6-24x type scope which is 14-25" long and 35-38oz. It's way too much for a bullpup. 

I don't want to pull an ODoiyle here and offend anyone, but that US Optics scope is the same 'glass' (maybe not turrets and reticle style) as the Discovery 3-12 scopes for $200. Not saying there is anything wrong with it - I use a Disco FFP version on one airgun. 

My take on the ultimate bullpup scope is the March-F 3-24x42. A touch over 12" long and 22 oz. Amazing light transmission, clarity, perfect FML1 illum reticle. Some will say you loose depth of field because of the compactness - but that, to me, is actually a benefit in the airgun world as it helps with crisp focus and range finding. Yeah - it ain't cheap but it can be had for the same price as the Nightforce NX8 if you shop wisely. I got mine from Optics Planet and with discounts was able to knock 15% off and purchase for ~$2100. 
 
Dave, 😊

I assume you're talking about the FFP versions of the Veyron and the VT-3, right?

🔶 Their difference seems to be that the VT-3 has thick outside posts on the reticle, which guide the eyes toward the crosshair intersection — this IS important when on low magnifications. (The Veyron does not have that and the USOptics TS-12X has only marginally thick posts.)

I have the VT-3, I am a turret dialer, and I have used it for about 2 years. Would buy it again, at that price unbeatable. My quibbles are:

▪Turrets don't line up well with markings.

▪Turret markings are not super bright white like the TS-12X.

▪I'm wondering how good the glass really is — maybe not that great, or my eyes are starting to get spoiled, don't know. Maybe the HD model is better?





🔶 The Discovery HD 3-12x44 FFP has a grid style reticle, if that's your preference. Has an illuminated reticle. Same price, same size, same weight as the VT-3.



🔶 Really amazing, but at twice the price, 2" longer, and 7oz heavier — is the Athlon Helos BTR Gen. 2 2-12x42. The quality and features must be very good from what others have reported. This will likely last you a looong time.



Matthias


 
@JungleShooter I was looking at this SFP Discovery https://airgunopticsplus.com/collections/scopes/products/discovery-optics-vt-3-3-12x44-sf-compact-second-focal-plane-scope and this one with a Hawke styled reticle https://airgunopticsplus.com/collections/scopes/products/discovery-optics-vt-2-3-12x44-sfir-optical-sight-tactical-riflescope-illumination-reticle-locking-turrets-hunting-rifle-scope

3-12x magnification is nice, but if I can get 2 or 2.5-16x or 18x, that may be a determining factor as high magnifications (that aren’t blurry) are more desirable. There are plenty of factors to consider and your tables definitely helped me prioritize the features that are important to me. You raised several good points to consider. I’m trying to set up the rifle for quick offhand shots and for spot-and-stalk styled hunting. However, Id still like the ability to be able to take a 50 yard shot when necessary as well as for paper target shooting and plinking.
 
Dave,

the Discovery VT-2 3-12x44 SFP* is about 1.5" longer.

And the specs and photos on the webpage are self-contradicting: I see a 15moa turret, and on another photo a 6mil turret. The specs say 7.5moa. The clicks on the photos are 1/4moa or 0.1mil, but the specs say 1/8moa.

I would not want a scope where turrets and reticle use different units of measurement, both should either be moa or mil, so that dope cards are valid for either of them.



*Link: https://airgunopticsplus.com/collections/scopes/products/discovery-optics-vt-2-3-12x44-sfir-optical-sight-tactical-riflescope-illumination-reticle-locking-turrets-hunting-rifle-scope





🔶 If I understand correctly, you want an SFP.

And you would prefer a higher top end magnification, higher than 12x. And you want a wide field of view (FoV) on the bottom end of the magni (have you tried this out in the field, e.g., how much FoV you really need at realistic ranges? It might be worth a test...).

So, how about these:

● Discovery VT-3 4-16x44 SFP:

FoV still 35ft very wide | under $200 | 10.6" short



● Discovery HD 3-15x50 SFP:
FoV 40ft huge | Under $200 | but 13.5" long



● Vector Paragon Gen. 2(!) 3-15x50:

FoV 37ft very wide | Maybe $100 more | 12.2" long



● Similar, but $140 more: Hawke Airmax 30 SF Compact 4-16x44 (No. 13210)

FoV still 33ft very wide | $340 | 11.7" long


● I usually don't recommend UTG scopes (they are tough, so good for springer airguns, but I have my reservations): But if you want both higher top end, and lower bottom end, there is this:


UTG Accushot T8 Tactical 2-16x44

FoV 44ft huge | under $200 | 12.4" long



Matthias