AEAC - FX Impact M3 Tuning Guide (interesting pre-video learning shared here)
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I’ve watched content on Ernest Rowe’s channels too. I don’t spend much of my time streaming YouTube, but I watch a wide variety of content from multiple channels when I do. You know, diversity of thought, approach, content, opinion, and all.
The macro jogs the micro by a few clicks at a time. Ultimately it’s the value on the micro scale that dictates the tension. If, as this method advises, you change the macro then restore the micro to its previous value, the HST does not change. Frankly, this isn’t explained very well in the M3 manual, so it’s easy to see how this micro/macro interaction gets misunderstood.
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Hello Steve, I just stepped up to the FX M3 recently in December. It's my first regulated Airgun. I have the M3 .35 w/800 mm barrel. 580cc Air Cylinder, 72cc Power Plenum.
I really want to take a deep dive into this rifle and learn the tuning techniques. Your thread is great. Can you direct me to the best documentation on the FX M3 so I can familiarize myself with the components and the way they all work together?
Right now I am still using the Factory Tuning and I am really impressed with the accuracy out of the box.
TY & Best Regards,
Doug
I really want to take a deep dive into this rifle and learn the tuning techniques. Your thread is great. Can you direct me to the best documentation on the FX M3 so I can familiarize myself with the components and the way they all work together?
Right now I am still using the Factory Tuning and I am really impressed with the accuracy out of the box.
TY & Best Regards,
Doug
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Weevil...just moved the macro on my FX...as you say, the micro moves in union...first time I noticed/saw that. Thanks
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Steve, did it ever occur to you that this flat spot occurs because of thank pressure and has nothing to do with anything else? Did your anomaly mysteriously move a little when you upped the reg pressure? If it always occurs when you get around shot 40 or so during your test, take a gander at your gauge. Fill the gun back up to 250b and see if the anomaly still exists.
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Sorry for the delay in getting back here to share my latest learning guys. My last-minute decision to get to SHOT Show to provide coverage there has my M3 learning on pause for the moment. I'll pick it right back up again after these 12 SHOT Show vids are done and up. I'll follow up with Sweden on the Hack too, and report back on if they were able to make anything of it.
Thanks, Steve
Thanks, Steve
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Could be... I'm going to let Sweden tell me what this is and report back on what they say. I put in my hours, lol. After I get the SHOT vids done, I'll get back on my M3 learning and approach it with my usual methodology. Wherever it takes me is where I'll go with it.
Best, Steve
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I really appreciate the time you put into this research, thanks!I've begun probing the FX Impact M3 for learning nuggets out ahead of my upcoming YouTube M3 tuning guides. The learning I discover, I'll share here as I go, as a resource for new tuners seeking information on how to tune the M3. Experienced tuners, please feel free to chime in and share your victories too. Tuning is as much an art as it is a science. There are many good tuners out there and many good ways to go about it.
Right out of the gate, I sought an easier approach to tuning the M3. One which would streamline my time in the chair and reduce pellet consumption along the way. My previously published YouTube tuning guides on the Maverick, Dreamline, Crown Continuum, Avenger, Avenger Pup, Redwolf, and Atomic taught me that perfect tune searching can be taxing on both the soul & pocketbook, so coming up with an "easier way" for this new guide has been a priority. Side note: Going forward, AEAC Tuning Guides will be published on the main channel, AEAC Home, and no longer on AEAC Vlog.
Right out of the gate, I ran a baseline chart for the M3 Compact (300cc bottle & 500mm liner) to see how Sweden had set it up. The takeaways for me are that Sweden likes a 90 bar reg for good all-around power & efficiency with an 18gr out of this configuration. That's important to note as we go forward and explore the lower limits of the aft reg on the M3, and lighter ammo. From the below, it's also clear that they like the gun set up with the Power Adjuster (PA) on 16, presumably because this is what the majority of their customers want. Personally, I've always sought to tune the FX's to more of a "middle point" on the wheel. Below is my M3's baseline run as it came out of the box.
View attachment 318604
View attachment 318658
After running a base line, I was curious about the relationship between the PA wheel and the QTS micro adjuster, as well as how low I could get reg 2 to run reliably. So, I came up with the below. It's a simple 80 shot evaluation of the above described and to my surprise, it revealed an interesting anomaly. If you'd like to run the test on your M3, simply take 5 shots at each PA setting (16 down to 1) while keeping the QTS reset to #3 with each new PA setting. Keep the Valve Adjuster (VA) on max-open for the run. It's also good when exploring the lower limits of a reg to keep your bottle pressure in a reasonable window like 225-150 bar or so. I've found that sometimes, regs get goofy near their lower limits (although not with this one) and can produce unreliable results when the pressure on them is at the two extremes. It's also good when running low reg pressure to allow the system a few seconds to take a breath in between shots. I like 5-10 seconds. Once done with your test, enhance your chart's magnification to around 50 fps total, so that you can see what's going on. Here's what I got:
View attachment 318624
View attachment 318659
The above test (I'm calling the Power Adjuster Flat Spot Search Tool) revealed an enhanced performance zone between the PA settings of 8-10 when running a 70 bar reg and while shooting a 16gr. Velocity clearly ran much tighter for me in this 15-shot zone. I posted the initial results here on AGN in another post (admittedly with overenthusiasm and without a full understanding) and ruffled some member-feathers. The outrage encouraged me to slow down, consult with Sweden about the find, and take a more in depth look at this phenomenon. Sweden had the below to say when I shared the above with them... it was a phone conversation, some of which I'll quote and some of which I'll paraphrase.
These test results are "intriguing & exciting," and that you may have "discovered a hack that could be quite useful in locating a mechanical sweet spot in a gun's overall system-mechanics... a sweet spot where PW & QTS interact with a bit less resistance, hence offer enhanced performance." Sweden theorized that by running this test, one could easily locate & identify this theoretical system sweet spot, and perhaps build upon its usefulness. For now, they are calling the data "undeniable." After the holiday vacation, Sweden will run my "flat spot search tool" test in an effort to better understand it. I'll catch up with them afterwards and share what comes of it.
Moving forward from the find, I decided to exploit my discovered 70 bar, 16gr flat zone anomaly and run an entire chart at that PA #9 sweet spot. I was rewarded with the below which for tracking purposes at this point, I'm calling Eco Tune 1. Bearing in mind that I had performed NO other searching around for ideal settings other than having run my initial flat spot search tool, I kinda had an oh sh*t moment and thought to myself. "Dang, that's a very decent usable shot chart... and this flat spot search tool test could be a useful method for others to simplify M3 tuning."
View attachment 318633
Wanting to evolve Eco Tune 1 into something more field worthy, I slowly worked the Valve Adjuster in a 1/4 turn at a time, searching for further tightening of shot-to-shot velocity. This step trims any waste air, increases efficiency, and improves accuracy. As you do it, listen for the report to go from a "cough" to a "snick" or even a light "snick-ping." The change in sound means that you're "there" and probably in an improved area. The below Eco Tune 2 is what I took into the field with me last week to 50-yard film for the upcoming tuning guide... and the results were excellent, especially for a 16gr leaving at 850 fps and arriving 50 yards sway at 675-700 fps, in a 3-7 mph wind (multiple troll-strolls included). Note: the VA ultimately needed another 1/4 turn in to stabilize 50-yard accuracy, which super-validates the usefulness of this nifty device.
View attachment 318644
View attachment 318647
View attachment 318649
View attachment 318668
Having validated the above methodology on film, I set out to retest my flat spot search tool again, but this time with an 80 bar reg instead of 70. The 80 bar test revealed yet another clearly visible 15-shot flat zone. Again, I exploited this enhanced performance zone to quickly & efficiently come up with another good tune for the M3. I'm calling this latest discovery, Eco Tune 3, and its numbers suggest some serious system-harmony.
View attachment 318669
View attachment 318672
View attachment 318684
View attachment 318685
View attachment 318702
For me, this discovery and its apparent system-sweet-spot-hack has me quite encouraged. I'm very much enjoying the speed & simplicity of getting to the result, as well as field-validating the accuracy that came via the new approach. As soon as the rain clears, I'll fine tune Eco Tue 3 via the VA, then get back out there at 50 to film-validate it for the upcoming YouTube AEAC M3 tuning guides. Then, hop on the 18gr... then on to the max power extraction stuff.
As I come across these learning nuggets, I'll share them here on AGN and on AEAC Instagram, "hookedonair" first... out ahead of the video, so you guys don't have to wait.
Enjoy and happy tuning
Steve
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Looking forward to seeing the video, Steve. Your videos are long but I'd still watch them if they were twice as long. Maybe in installments. Always good info!I've begun probing the FX Impact M3 for learning nuggets out ahead of my upcoming YouTube M3 tuning guides. The learning I discover, I'll share here as I go, as a resource for new tuners seeking information on how to tune the M3. Experienced tuners, please feel free to chime in and share your victories too. Tuning is as much an art as it is a science. There are many good tuners out there and many good ways to go about it.
Right out of the gate, I sought an easier approach to tuning the M3. One which would streamline my time in the chair and reduce pellet consumption along the way. My previously published YouTube tuning guides on the Maverick, Dreamline, Crown Continuum, Avenger, Avenger Pup, Redwolf, and Atomic taught me that perfect tune searching can be taxing on both the soul & pocketbook, so coming up with an "easier way" for this new guide has been a priority. Side note: Going forward, AEAC Tuning Guides will be published on the main channel, AEAC Home, and no longer on AEAC Vlog.
Right out of the gate, I ran a baseline chart for the M3 Compact (300cc bottle & 500mm liner) to see how Sweden had set it up. The takeaways for me are that Sweden likes a 90 bar reg for good all-around power & efficiency with an 18gr out of this configuration. That's important to note as we go forward and explore the lower limits of the aft reg on the M3, and lighter ammo. From the below, it's also clear that they like the gun set up with the Power Adjuster (PA) on 16, presumably because this is what the majority of their customers want. Personally, I've always sought to tune the FX's to more of a "middle point" on the wheel. Below is my M3's baseline run as it came out of the box.
View attachment 318604
View attachment 318658
After running a base line, I was curious about the relationship between the PA wheel and the QTS micro adjuster, as well as how low I could get reg 2 to run reliably. So, I came up with the below. It's a simple 80 shot evaluation of the above described and to my surprise, it revealed an interesting anomaly. If you'd like to run the test on your M3, simply take 5 shots at each PA setting (16 down to 1) while keeping the QTS reset to #3 with each new PA setting. Keep the Valve Adjuster (VA) on max-open for the run. It's also good when exploring the lower limits of a reg to keep your bottle pressure in a reasonable window like 225-150 bar or so. I've found that sometimes, regs get goofy near their lower limits (although not with this one) and can produce unreliable results when the pressure on them is at the two extremes. It's also good when running low reg pressure to allow the system a few seconds to take a breath in between shots. I like 5-10 seconds. Once done with your test, enhance your chart's magnification to around 50 fps total, so that you can see what's going on. Here's what I got:
View attachment 318624
View attachment 318659
The above test (I'm calling the Power Adjuster Flat Spot Search Tool) revealed an enhanced performance zone between the PA settings of 8-10 when running a 70 bar reg and while shooting a 16gr. Velocity clearly ran much tighter for me in this 15-shot zone. I posted the initial results here on AGN in another post (admittedly with overenthusiasm and without a full understanding) and ruffled some member-feathers. The outrage encouraged me to slow down, consult with Sweden about the find, and take a more in depth look at this phenomenon. Sweden had the below to say when I shared the above with them... it was a phone conversation, some of which I'll quote and some of which I'll paraphrase.
These test results are "intriguing & exciting," and that you may have "discovered a hack that could be quite useful in locating a mechanical sweet spot in a gun's overall system-mechanics... a sweet spot where PW & QTS interact with a bit less resistance, hence offer enhanced performance." Sweden theorized that by running this test, one could easily locate & identify this theoretical system sweet spot, and perhaps build upon its usefulness. For now, they are calling the data "undeniable." After the holiday vacation, Sweden will run my "flat spot search tool" test in an effort to better understand it. I'll catch up with them afterwards and share what comes of it.
Moving forward from the find, I decided to exploit my discovered 70 bar, 16gr flat zone anomaly and run an entire chart at that PA #9 sweet spot. I was rewarded with the below which for tracking purposes at this point, I'm calling Eco Tune 1. Bearing in mind that I had performed NO other searching around for ideal settings other than having run my initial flat spot search tool, I kinda had an oh sh*t moment and thought to myself. "Dang, that's a very decent usable shot chart... and this flat spot search tool test could be a useful method for others to simplify M3 tuning."
View attachment 318633
Wanting to evolve Eco Tune 1 into something more field worthy, I slowly worked the Valve Adjuster in a 1/4 turn at a time, searching for further tightening of shot-to-shot velocity. This step trims any waste air, increases efficiency, and improves accuracy. As you do it, listen for the report to go from a "cough" to a "snick" or even a light "snick-ping." The change in sound means that you're "there" and probably in an improved area. The below Eco Tune 2 is what I took into the field with me last week to 50-yard film for the upcoming tuning guide... and the results were excellent, especially for a 16gr leaving at 850 fps and arriving 50 yards sway at 675-700 fps, in a 3-7 mph wind (multiple troll-strolls included)
View attachment 318644
View attachment 318647
View attachment 318649
View attachment 318668
Having validated the above methodology on film, I set out to retest my flat spot search tool again, but this time with an 80 bar reg instead of 70. The 80 bar test revealed yet another clearly visible 15-shot flat zone. Again, I exploited this enhanced performance zone to quickly & efficiently come up with another good tune for the M3. I'm calling this latest discovery, Eco Tune 3, and its numbers suggest some serious system-harmony.
View attachment 318669
View attachment 318672
View attachment 318684
View attachment 318685
View attachment 318702
For me, this discovery and its apparent system-sweet-spot-hack has me quite encouraged. I'm very much enjoying the speed & simplicity of getting to the result, as well as field-validating the accuracy that came via the new approach. As soon as the rain clears, I'll fine tune Eco Tue 3 via the VA, then get back out there at 50 to film-validate it for the upcoming YouTube AEAC M3 tuning guides. Then, hop on the 18gr... then on to the max power extraction stuff.
As I come across these learning nuggets, I'll share them here on AGN and on AEAC Instagram, "hookedonair" first... out ahead of the video, so you guys don't have to wait.
Enjoy and happy tuning
Steve
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Are you referring to the 95% rule that states that 95% of observations fall within 2 standard deviations of the mean in a normal distribution? If so, could you help me understand what you mean here? Are you suggesting that this flat spot is just happenstance as part of the 5% falling at the tails? Thanks!
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He's talking about tuning a PCP to 95% of the max speed that can be achieved at a given reg pressure. It's a common safe spot to start your tuning at.
100% tune - LOUD, inefficient. Valve still open when projectile leaves barrel. Low ES since hammer is really HAMMERING that valve.
95% tune - acceptable loudness. acceptable ES, acceptable efficiency
Low% tune - super quiet, more efficient. High ES since hammer is just tickling the valve.
Bob Sterne goes over it in detail here:
Tuning Regulated PCP Airguns - Hard Air Magazine
The first thing you need to understand when tuning regulated PCP airguns is that for any PCP there is a maximum velocity for a given pellet,
hardairmagazine.com Regarding the 'flat spot' in discussion here. Looking at those graphs, the ES over 80 shots is only 14fps, and if you threw out 5 shots, the ES would be around 10fps. With a spread that small, we are really zoomed in and the graph is showing what is just a few FPS difference. I wonder if the flat spot wasn't just a random spot in the shot string where the shots landed a little closer together. Second guess, I like Vetmx's air pressure theory.
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This is exactly what I was looking for, TDK. I didn’t think it was a stats reference. Thank you!He's talking about tuning a PCP to 95% of the max speed that can be achieved at a given reg pressure. It's a common safe spot to start your tuning at.
100% tune - LOUD, inefficient. Valve still open when projectile leaves barrel. Low ES since hammer is really HAMMERING that valve.
95% tune - acceptable loudness. acceptable ES, acceptable efficiency
Low% tune - super quiet, more efficient. High ES since hammer is just tickling the valve.
Bob Sterne goes over it in detail here:
Tuning Regulated PCP Airguns - Hard Air Magazine
The first thing you need to understand when tuning regulated PCP airguns is that for any PCP there is a maximum velocity for a given pellet,
Regarding the 'flat spot' in discussion here. Looking at those graphs, the ES over 80 shots is only 14fps, and if you threw out 5 shots, the ES would be around 10fps. With a spread that small, we are really zoomed in and the graph is showing what is just a few FPS difference. I wonder if the flat spot wasn't just a random spot in the shot string where the shots landed a little closer together. Second guess, I like Vetmx's air pressure theory.
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Thanks for your patience with my time-out guys. The 12 SHOT Show vids are done (last minute decision to go and cover) and I'm back on my M3 "Compact" learning. I'm satisfied that I've got the 16gr pellet sorted, and on to learning the 18gr pellet now. Below are my final 16gr pellet findings to be shared in the upcoming AEAC YouTube tuning guide.
I used the below 2 tunes to achieve excellent 50-yard accuracy with the 16gr pellet. Either will get you there and both will get the job done. Pellets destabilized significantly in the 875-885 fps range, and any wind aggravated the situation. Ideal speed was 850-865 fps wind or not. I prefer 850 ish overall as it flew pellets the straightest. I suspect the 18gr will fare better pushed faster. The 16gr is very susceptible to movement in the lightest wind.
More to come as I learn the 18gr pellet now.
Side note - I pinged Sweden today for any updates on the "hack." Will let y'all know what they say.
Steve
filming for the tuning guide
16gr happy at 850-865 fps, light wind (50 yds)
850-865 fps left, 875-885 fps right (50 yds)
16gr pushed to 880-885 in 3-5 mph wind caused destabilization (50 yds)
I used the below 2 tunes to achieve excellent 50-yard accuracy with the 16gr pellet. Either will get you there and both will get the job done. Pellets destabilized significantly in the 875-885 fps range, and any wind aggravated the situation. Ideal speed was 850-865 fps wind or not. I prefer 850 ish overall as it flew pellets the straightest. I suspect the 18gr will fare better pushed faster. The 16gr is very susceptible to movement in the lightest wind.
More to come as I learn the 18gr pellet now.
Side note - I pinged Sweden today for any updates on the "hack." Will let y'all know what they say.
Steve
filming for the tuning guide
16gr happy at 850-865 fps, light wind (50 yds)
850-865 fps left, 875-885 fps right (50 yds)
16gr pushed to 880-885 in 3-5 mph wind caused destabilization (50 yds)
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Here's one I came up with yesterday... first swipe at an 18gr pellet tune.
My goal was to improve upon the OEM tune with an improved ES & SD, while maintaining the speed of 880. Today, I'll try to stretch things out a bit more. Guessing that some VA trim, or another 3-5 bar on the reg may help accomplish this.
Steve
My goal was to improve upon the OEM tune with an improved ES & SD, while maintaining the speed of 880. Today, I'll try to stretch things out a bit more. Guessing that some VA trim, or another 3-5 bar on the reg may help accomplish this.
Steve
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... today's improvement on the above. It's amazing what a tiny-tiny adjustment in 2 places can make to the outcome.
I'll get this one out filming to 50 yd validate, and if it tests out, get on to the 25.39gr pellet.
For comparison, improved ES & SD via VA & reg2 trim, without any sacrifice to shot count.
Steve
I'll get this one out filming to 50 yd validate, and if it tests out, get on to the 25.39gr pellet.
For comparison, improved ES & SD via VA & reg2 trim, without any sacrifice to shot count.
Steve
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Things are going to get interesting with the 25.39. My M3 Compact .22 is a bullet shooter. On a whim I tried a mag of 25.39’s with my bullet tune. It was a pokey slow no go. Can‘t wait to see what you come up with when some effort is put into it.
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