AFFTA has too many Kill Zone sizes

[dayjd]

I have always wondered why in our American FT version why we have the option of 14 different sized circles on our Field Targets when WFTF only has 3 I believe. I would like to see AFFTA follow the World FT rules on the number of sizes. It complicates setting up a match trying to stay in the AFFTA restraints on maximum distance from all shooting positions.
Most clubs couldn't afford to own all those sizes anyway and don't use many of them. Use the KISS principle as much as possible. We support out WFTF shooters and cheer them on as they challenge the world. It might help them if we at least use the same size KZ's over hear. Am I right or wrong or does anyone really care?

 

[Motorhead]

We in the states from what I've been told ... Set a Lot more small to med size targets at closer ranges than WFTF shoots do abroad.
This conversation I've had many times that in WFTF the shots are many & way out there most instances.

Just thoughts tho ...

 

[Airgunoregon]

Bill,
I like the sentiment, but let's not make it more difficult for the clubs who have already purchased their targets..

We don't want them to have to buy more targets do we? .. and put perfectly good targets on the shelf to not use... do we?

If a club has enough targets in the WFTF sizes and some/many WFTF competitors will be at their match, then that would be a great thing for the MD to do... use only official WFTF size targets.

AAFTA rules with open & hunter and unofficial Unlimited class and all their support goodies.... might kind of need the 3/8" possibility kill zones to separate top shooters?

9/16" is a lot bigger than 3/8"

Sure the 9/16" can be further out to compensate, but then the hard range finding of a around 10 yard shot is lessened considerably.

Wayne

 

[qball]

We in the USA or land of the free will never follow rules from other people, 3 KZ are simply not “free” enough so we go Wild West and make up more KZ sizes than we can remember just for the sake of freedom! While we refuse to let go of imperial measuring system just prove the point that we have long broke away from the grasp of old imperial empire……..


Kidding aside I agree with Wayne that the smaller KZs are nice additions to make this game more challenging. A 3/8th at 10.3 yards is far from a give me no matter how low you can get your scope to the bore while 20mm is close to a giveme at that distance. Having majority of the shots out at 20-55 yards will get boring.

 

[AirNGasman]

"Am I right or wrong or does anyone really care?"

I don't really care (much) Bill, but you're wrong.

Americans demand options, horse-power, and should strive to buck the rest of the world at every opportunity!

 

[dayjd]

Sorry, Just trying to change the subject around here. Just remember when Crosman ran their matches most of their attendance was always between 90 and 105 shooters at each two day match. All targets were 1 1/2" KZ and no one ever cleaned it or came close. Their onsite competitions ran from 2010 to 2016 before they moved to East Rochester.

 

[dayjd]

"Am I right or wrong or does anyone really care?"

I don't really care (much) Bill, but you're wrong.

Americans demand options, horse-power, and should strive to buck the rest of the world at every opportunity!

 

[dayjd]

Gee Ron, You don't sound like that guy that loved sitting on the ground shooting a cheap rifle or pistol he modified himself that I use to know. Has that Extreme stuff spoiled you?

 

[dayjd]

Bill,
I like the sentiment, but let's not make it more difficult for the clubs who have already purchased their targets..

We don't want them to have to buy more targets do we? .. and put perfectly good targets on the shelf to not use... do we?

If a club has enough targets in the WFTF sizes and some/many WFTF competitors will be at their match, then that would be a great thing for the MD to do... use only official WFTF size targets.

AAFTA rules with open & hunter and unofficial Unlimited class and all their support goodies.... might kind of need the 3/8" possibility kill zones to separate top shooters?

9/16" is a lot bigger than 3/8"

Sure the 9/16" can be further out to compensate, but then the hard range finding of a around 10 yard shot is lessened considerably.

Wayne

Wayne, with today's technology I don't think it would be to hard to enlarge those odd size faceplate holes to a size that is compatible with sizes we have now and it likely wouldn't cost that much. Some of the targets clubs have now would only require the removal of a reducer.

 

[Scotchmo]

Wayne, with today's technology I don't think it would be to hard to enlarge those odd size faceplate holes to a size that is compatible with sizes we have now and it likely wouldn't cost that much. Some of the targets clubs have now would only require the removal of a reducer.

A few years ago, I bored out a bunch of the reducers to 15mm and 25mm. Our club ran only 15mm, 25mm, and 40mm targets for at least a couple of years. I missed having the smaller 3/8” and 1/2” targets, so I eventually put a few of them back in the mix.

Fewer sizes does make it easier because fewer replacement/backup targets are needed. When a target proved faulty during a match, I always replaced it with an identical size target so it could stay in play. I never pulled targets (or awarded free points) at a GP match.

 

[SqrlHntr]

Semi-noob question, but does it relate any to the scopes? I would think having 3 kz size options would make bracketing simple(r). Ive never shot with a proper FT scope, so I dont know if the wftf shooters and monster scopes would even need to bracket at all.

 

[K]

Semi-noob question, but does it relate any to the scopes? I would think having 3 kz size options would make bracketing simple(r). Ive never shot with a proper FT scope, so I dont know if the wftf shooters and monster scopes would even need to bracket at all.

I've never been able to hold still enough to make KZ bracketing practical.

 

[dayjd]

Semi-noob question, but does it relate any to the scopes? I would think having 3 kz size options would make bracketing simple(r). Ive never shot with a proper FT scope, so I dont know if the wftf shooters and monster scopes would even need to bracket at all.

Bracketing near targets out to 40 yards is not necessary for even the 12x can usually range find those yardages adequately provided there is enough light.
Targets beyond 40 yards are the ones typically bracketed if you can hold steady enough to get a good read on your system. Those with the big scopes 25 to 45 power say they can dial in the correct yardage within a yard or two at that distance.

 

[dayjd]

A few years ago, I bored out a bunch of the reducers to 15mm and 25mm. Our club ran only 15mm, 25mm, and 40mm targets for at least a couple of years. I missed having the smaller 3/8” and 1/2” targets, so I eventually put a few of them back in the mix.

Fewer sizes does make it easier because fewer replacement/backup targets are needed. When a target proved faulty during a match, I always replaced it with an identical size target so it could stay in play. I never pulled targets (or awarded free points) at a GP match.

Scott, I agree, I too like the 3/8" and 1/2" faceplates but are 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1 1/8, 1 1/4, 1 3/8, 1 5/8 1 3/4, 1 7/8 or 2" necesary out to 50 yards?

 

[beerthief]

Sorry, Just trying to change the subject around here. Just remember when Crosman ran their matches most of their attendance was always between 90 and 105 shooters at each two day match. All targets were 1 1/2" KZ and no one ever cleaned it or came close. Their onsite competitions ran from 2010 to 2016 before they moved to East Rochester.

I seem to remember that the various size KZ was to not have a 1.5 only KZ to range find a known distance .

 

[c_m_shooter]

Bracketing near targets out to 40 yards is not necessary for even the 12x can usually range find those yardages adequately provided there is enough light.
Targets beyond 40 yards are the ones typically bracketed if you can hold steady enough to get a good read on your system. Those with the big scopes 25 to 45 power say they can dial in the correct yardage within a yard or two at that distance.

If you bracket the kill zones, you will get fooled eventually by a 1" kill zone at 44 yards. You will miss it way high.... From 45 on, they have to be 1.5 inches. Cement blocks are good for bracketing.

 

[Arzrover]

I wasn't aware of a REQUIREMENT for that many kz sizes but having them available is more INTERESTING imho.
I think REQUIRING only 3 kz sizes would further the strangulation of the sport. When I have gone to different venues, I really enjoyed the showcasing of the venue and md creativity. The attempts to homogenize all the matches makes a match directors job more difficult and stifles the sport. A club or md can CHOSE to use only 3 as it stands right now.
Bob

 

[AirNGasman]

Bobby's "stifle" comment sums up the argument against only three KZs quite succinctly.

And Bill's, "Has that Extreme stuff spoiled you?" is a bit too close for comfort! Suffice to say that Extreme stuff has cost me a small... correction, not so small fortune! And some three years into it, I still haven't found a rig I feel worthy of my own TEXtreme competitions.

Guess it's time to build an eighty foot pound QB...

 

[tjmac]

Up here, we are moving towards four hit zone sizes. We liked the WFTF sizes of 15, 25 and 40 mm, but we too wanted that smaller one, so we added a 10mm. This is not going to have a hard date for compliance in the near future, but we will get there when we get there.

We have a few that are making targets up here and we just figured that standardization would make it easier for them.

Tim

 

[dayjd]

I seem to remember that the various size KZ was to not have a 1.5 only KZ to range find a known distance .

The nice think about the all 1 1/2" KZ was that the match was hard enough with their wind around their Plant that even the new shooters scores went up with the bigger KZ and like I stated earlier no one came close to cleaning the course. As some one mentioned the cement block width was the key to good bracketing and not so much the 1 1/2 " KZ because unless you are dead solid on your bracket 50, 52 1/2. and 55 look very close the same when bracketing. You might be able to see the difference from a benchrest but off a bipod for me there always is movement to deal with.