air rifle vs. rimfire

[bubblerboy64]

That’s not typical or at least it hasn’t been for me. Very few shots in side 200 yards and all you care to take beyond 400 but they are really hard to hit at that distance. Apparently they do learn if they have been shot at . My hit percentage has never been better then about 30% .

Yes, they absolutely learn. We were shooting from a truck rest, and as they got spooked, we would move another 100 yards or so into the town. Our hit rate was above average, and for a couple of reasons. We took our time with our shots and trying to read conditions. And, not to be a braggart, but we were both experienced bench rest shooters, and were shooting very good rifles with a lot of carefully handloaded ammo. Every 50 shots or so (shooting .223 and 22 PPC) one would clean a barrel while the other shot; doesn't take long to foul a barrel under those conditions. We learned not to shoot the super high velocity stuff, as the barrel just heats up too quickly. And I killed a good many inside 50 yards with a rimfire.

I understand. I had a buddy who was deadly on prairie dogs. He had great equipment has a talented reloader and just a damned good shooter. He could do two things which I have been not able to do. Get his rifle and ammo shooting 1/2 moa and spot his shots consistently

BUT it’s all he did. Shoot in the morning and reload shells in the afternoon.

I’m just an average shot and it’s difficult for me when they get out past about 300 yards. My buddy could tag them out at 500 pretty regularly 

 

[cowtownhorn]

You'll never convince me on 2-3 things:

An air rifle sold with a scope and no fixed sights

A ruger 10/22 vs a PCP or any other air rifle

The other?

I'll take the break barrel over the PCP any day. Not worth it for the money. Expand the old Lee-Enfield "mad minute" over an hour or 1/2 hour and the break barrel will beat the PCP EVERY TIME. AGAIN, are we killing something on one shot, or are we shooting the target as many X as we can?

I look at the PCP guns. And I look at the Ruger 10/22. And, what's the difference here?

Ruger 10/22 $230. You want to spend 4-6-$1000 on an air rifle? Be in your early 20's, know how to ski, train for the olympics vs the nordics. Seriously.

Springer vs gas? If you're asking this you're probably the dad. Buy the springer for yourself, encourage your son to buy a decent gas, let him grow into yours.

Promised son rifle range at 7th grade. looking forward to it. Ruger 10/22, Ruger MKIV, Mossberg88, RIA .45. It'll be a helluva lot of fun once every month or so. IT WILL DEFINITELY NOT BE AS CHEAP AS THE BACKYARD WITH THE AIR RIFLES.

 

[billyg]

No disrespect cowtownhorn but I have no idea what the hell you just said!

 

[fuznut]

The shame of it all is 22 rf sub sonic ammo has been around a long time now. Accuracy suffers when you run it down a barrel designed for twice the speed. If they would make a barrel around 22 inches with a faster twist rate you should be able to see air gun slug performance at a fraction of the cost from a 22 rf. It would be no louder than a shrouded air gun with about the same fpe. Seems to me a no brainer? 

 

[BamaBang]

I run a tikka t1x with a can, eventually fazing out on airgun side.

 

[steve123]

The only air rifle I've owned so far that doesn't have POI shifts is my Mac1 USFT rifle. It's a simply designed mechanism, mine has no reg, and the barrel is clamped into a huge piece of aluminum bar via large bolts. There's not much weakness to cause a shift. Though I don't think the zero would withstand a fall to the ground if the barrel was struck because it's thin compared to most PB's. But I have bumped the barrel slightly on occasion and it held zero fine.

At a NRL22 match last weekend I spotted a custom 10-22 22rf so I walked over and asked the guy about it. He was on his 3rd year in gunsmithing school and this was his project gun. He took a Mcmillan composite stock which is a very stable foundation for the wide and 3" long barrel block made of Stainless steel/SS, which was securely fastened and bedded into the stock. In which passed a .9" match SS barrel that went through the block and clamped into it which he threaded for fit into a custom SS receiver. The action was fully free floated as well. That is a system that I would trust to NOT have POI shifts if it fell!!! 

The crux of it is having systems that are overbuilt to begin with, of course most AG's are not, especially concerning the barrel attachment systems. 

The POI shift thing is a major reason why I ordered a Thomas HP so I can avoid that problem and concentrate on other things. I just want to dial my dope and hit what I aim at not mess with the dreaded POI shifting present in the various AG's I've had in the past.

Of course crappy mounts, rings, and scopes, can be blamed here and there for POI shifts too. Then you have compounded problems. Oh joy....

 

[RunningBull]

Interesting topic. I have many 22LR rifles. Ruger 10/22, X-Ring with Ridd match barrel and trigger on a Magpul synthetic stock and a CZ 455. The Ruger 10/22 is a plinker, not a hunter or target quality. The X-Ring was an experiment and it's a shooter. It will easily shoot 1/2" groups at 50yrds all day long and better with match grade ammo. The CZ-455 is also a shooter, very accurate and better overall accuracy than the X-Ring. Out of the three 22LR rifle, I would only take the CZ-455 in the woods.

I originally got into air rifles so that I could practice more and they are backyard friendly. I started with a Benjamin Marauder in .22cal. However, I quickly realized that the Marauder was not up to my expectations. I did some research and found that FX air rifles were among the best. At the time FX had just released the Impact and I was in no way going to spend $2k on an air rifle but the FX Streamline was within my budget. I've been very happy with it for years and I finally bought a FX Impact STX 600mm w/PP in .22cal back in March of 2020.

I took the Impact out for a walk around at a local WMA looking for fuzzy tail tree rats and quickly realized the weight is a bit much. The Streamline is much more hunter friendly both in design and weight for hunting. FX has other models that might also be hunter friendly but I have no experience with the other models.

Rimfires will always be cheaper in the long run even if you spend $4K for a complete setup. Quality air rifles will require a much greater investment in equipment over rimfires and care. Both have their advantages so it comes down to the individual use for either.

 

[SMH77]

Interesting, because I've been having the OPPOSITE finding this past year. My RAW HM1000X is spot on for POI when shooting cold, and my CZ 457 MTR (in a KRG Bravo chassis) has been throwing the first cold bore shot as the number of rounds has piled up (just bought it earlier this year). If I could find where the heck I need to clean the CZ, I'd certainly do so because that's been the gun I've grabbed this past year for groundhog duty. However, I've had several shots later in the season where everything was spot on-crosshairs perfectly placed between the eye and ear, great shot release, etc and all I hear is 'thunk' (typically bullet low, I think?) and the GH scurries away, unscathed. Usually I've been fortunate for a second chance at it, and the GH has paid the penalty for that mistake.

I guess if there's one upside, its that the first, cold bore shot with my CZ 457 MTR has been a clean miss (much better than wounding it). As a result, I've been contemplating switching over to my RAW since it's always dead on, from the first shot.

I do very much so like the shorter length of the CZ vs. the RAW though-that's for certain!

One other note (not to start a flame war, please) but my son had his heart set on a FX Wildcat so I bought him a Mk II in .25 cal (after my buddy owned one in the same caliber, but Mk I). My son eventually got fed up with the Wildcat because it had to be 're-sighted in' every session he shot it-terribly, awfully frustrating to no end! My buddy had the same problem with his Mk I-to the point that he sold it and picked up a RAW HM1000X, which is spot on, every time he pulls it out (cold) for pest control duty-the difference has been night and day. Both his RAW and mine are .25 cal, polygon barrel, pre-airforce guns. Both his FX WC and my son's WC MkII exhibited the same frustrating, session to session shift (my son's even did it with a Huma regulator installed). The FX design just seems to be un-reliable from what I've seen so I'm not planning to spend any more money on one in the future (though I do like the look of the Impacts). The WC design just seems more 'fragile' in handling that what I've experienced with my RAW. Having said that, I don't do dumb stuff with my RAW either (like picking it up by the barrel, bumping it around, etc)-I intentionally handle it like I've got over $3k invested in the gun and optic and want to keep it in good condition.

My apologies to all the FX owners I've likely pissed off with these comments-I do not intend to upset you at all, nor denigrate the FX brand. I'm just sharing my 100% honest experience with the guns mentioned.

Anyway, here are 3 of the 5 GH's the CZ has taken this year:

Sean

 

[Blackpaw]

This has been an interesting thread to read as I drink my morning coffee and I reflect upon my own recent and past purchases. When i moved back to the USA in 2017 after living in Denmark for almost 6 years I bought 2 had guns, a Ruger SR 22 and a Ruger 380 ACP L2 (pocket CC gun). I wanted something light and easy to pack and be hidden away and decent on self defense.

The only air gun I had in my collection in the USA at the time that was hunter was my prized Beeman R9 TK Macarri. I have taken pigeons / starlings and sparrows with that gun at up to 40 yards, and I know it is me not the gun. I did have an old Webley Viper PCP in .22 cal I bought from the guy who had the TK, and got the taste of what PCPs could do. I remember taking a rock chuck around Blackfoot Reservoir with the Viper and was impressed with the lights-out. Back then I was living in Utah and when someone at the range would see me with the Viper and look at me like with the “what the hell is that???”. Well, eventually the Viper got sold and I got the TK.

Now roll forward 16 years and a pandemic and I now live in the Netherlands (missing USA though) and have 3 high end PCPs. FX IMpact compact in .22 cal, Taipan Veteran Compact in .25 cal and the Leshiy 2 in .177 cal, but plan on getting a 25 / 30 cal barrel in future. To get a firearms license in the Netherlands is a long process and tough for a foreigner who has been here less than 3 years, 2.5 for me. At the 3 year mark you can start, need to speak dutch baseline and be a member of a gun club for 2 year and etc then you can apply for a firearms license.

So if I want to shoot anything at this time, air guns are my best option and when I move back to the USA maybe next or the following year, they will probably be my preferred option. With a major difference is I can hunt with them there, which i can’t here legally with air rifles except for pesting and that is with a permit. (Mum on rest)

This last week I officially sold and sent my Brocock Compatto Sniper XR in .177 to a life long friend in my hometown. I gave my friend a very fair price on the rifle and everything, so even if he decides to sell it he really won’t be out much money, but and there is always a but. Now after seeing what I have in my collection, seeing first hand his buddy’s FX Impact in 30 cal, he knows he wants at least 2 PCPs in his collection. He wants the Brocock for around his property and something for his grandkids to play with and then to get something larger like the Taipan or now most likely a Leshiy 2, for a mountain / take with you any where gun, that doesn’t tell the neighborhood you are in the neighborhood when you are shooting even on his remote property in Mackey, Idaho.

 

[steve123]

Hey Blackpaw, between Sun Valley and Mackay is my favorite place to camp in the USA! Just awesome back in there. I'd like to have a summer place up there someday.

SMH77, if all the screws are tight in the scope mounting system, as well as the actions screws torqued the same, you should be able to find a repeatable pattern for your cold bore shot/CBS as to where it lands compared to the rest of the group. The CBS shouldn't be enough to miss the head of groundhog inside 75Y unless something is off. I recommend bedding your CZ into your KRG, that should help because if the receiver or the bedding block in the chassis aren't square to each other they'll be misaligned and change relationship with temperature.

I like to have a fouled bore because a clean bore shot will usually hit out of the group. For making the most out of a precision shot it's imperative to use good ammo. I use my good ammo even for hunting, it cost me $12.60 for a 50 box but it'll do .8" at 100Y. Aside from some mounting issues I had to nail down (had to have a heavy duty base fitted- it's a long story) I don't have POI shifts anymore with my 22rf. I can take it out at any time and hit small stuff on the first shot if I get the wind right. Just saying that sometimes a little tuning helps get rid of the odd CBS problem.

 

[Kim]

Re: RAW HM1000

I have used my .22 cal RAW here for pest control over the past 6 years. It has the cut-rifled barrel and is very accurate and dependable - though it did develop a leak once that required service and re-sealing. Mostly rabbits and squirrels, though this year several raccoons - using JSB 25.4gr redesigned monster pellets. Neighbors are too close here to use rimfire, but the RAW is very quiet and won't shoot nearly as far as RF.

About a month ago I headed out in the early morning and went down our steep hill on the wooden steps. I didn't see there was ice on one step and both feet flew and I fell so fast I didn't know what happened. I hit the steps pretty hard, bruising my backside but more importantly the RAW had slammed full force on some rocks and the walnut stock broke clean through the grip area.

I was very upset at the broken beautiful stock, but the gun still cycled and fired. I drilled the stock for a long bolt and repaired it with the bolt and some epoxy. It looks fine but still shoots extremely well. I've nailed about a dozen squirrels since the fall, and haven't even bothered to re-zero the Hawke scope.