Tuning Airgun Barrel Tuners - Does it Work?
- Thread starter Corvid_hunter
- Start date
Haven't watched the video, don't find many of his very helpful. But I'll offer this, anything you attach to a barrel affects harmonics. So yes, they "work", in the sense of affecting the rifle. Whether helpful or not is a matter of random occurrence. Just have to experiment.
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Two phrases that apply here. If it isn't broke, dont fix it. And... Less is more.
In essence, yes, it works. But do you really need it? The same affect can be had without it...... This coming from someone that REALLY likes to tinker on things.
In essence, yes, it works. But do you really need it? The same affect can be had without it...... This coming from someone that REALLY likes to tinker on things.
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does it work? Of course it does, it’s nothing new and been used in bench rest competition for a very long time. Do you need it? Well it depends.
I have one on order and god know when I will get it. The reason I want it is to help me fine tune my crown. The impact really doesn’t need it because the fine adjustment at hammer spring preload and valve return. The crown with normal stocks does not allow HS preload adjustment because it’s blocked by the stock. Also it does not have valve return adjustment to fine tune at under 10FPS or less. So because I can’t fine tune even with micro adjustment wheel a screw on tuner is in order. I have no intend to buy one for my impact.
I have one on order and god know when I will get it. The reason I want it is to help me fine tune my crown. The impact really doesn’t need it because the fine adjustment at hammer spring preload and valve return. The crown with normal stocks does not allow HS preload adjustment because it’s blocked by the stock. Also it does not have valve return adjustment to fine tune at under 10FPS or less. So because I can’t fine tune even with micro adjustment wheel a screw on tuner is in order. I have no intend to buy one for my impact.
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I concur with your findings. These will not fix a badly tuned gun... but it does has a subtle influence. There are several complete revolutions available, with 1/8 rotation major sub tensions and 4 sub-sub tensions between each major sub tensions. The range of adjustment is much larger than needed to get the barrel into and out of phase with the harmonic.frequency. I have found that at about 70% of the range between the tightest group adjustments, I get two separate groups just as you did, slightly offset from each other. I have the tuner w/o shroud on my Kral Nemesis in .25.
Again, this device will not fix bad tune, bad technique or bad breath. It would be easy to loose the significance of the adjustments in the noise of the data if one was not careful in their methodology.
Again, this device will not fix bad tune, bad technique or bad breath. It would be easy to loose the significance of the adjustments in the noise of the data if one was not careful in their methodology.
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Starting with a barrel that doesn't flop and flex around might be a better place to start, this just looks like a bandaid for a poorly designed system.
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I agree with Crossman, I’ve experimented with crude homemade tuners on barrel’s directly (not Multiple layered barrel systems!)
I found a negligible improvement at best and for the time spent really wasn’t worth it?
See my topic the “dead barrel”.
I found a negligible improvement at best and for the time spent really wasn’t worth it?
See my topic the “dead barrel”.
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If it ain't for you, don't use one if you don't have first hand experience with one, you opinion is just that.
Wash, dry, sort and fluff your pellets to gain 2% improvement in accuracy? A lot of guys do that. Silly IMHO, but I don't denigrate them or their process for doing so.
Does the tuner "work??" Yes it does. Simple as that.
Wash, dry, sort and fluff your pellets to gain 2% improvement in accuracy? A lot of guys do that. Silly IMHO, but I don't denigrate them or their process for doing so.
Does the tuner "work??" Yes it does. Simple as that.
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Can’t add a lot more to what people said above, and because I haven’t used it, I can’t speak to it directly. I can speak to barrel tuners in general and specifically to the Harrells tuner I had on my CZ 455 22lr.
They do work!
My old bench shooting CZ 455, shooting at 50 yards and 6x5 cards:
We have a few more options in some of our airguns to work on harmonic tuning, so we don’t always need a tuner. But depending on your rifle and the adjustability you have, the tuner might be that extra piece you need to find you that tiny bit extra consistency you are looking for. It comes down to what you need. Would the Lilja have been enough for me in the backyard? Absolutely! Was it enough at the range with the guys trying to beat them? I could use a little more help and it helped dial it in just a bit more.
Like everyone else said, it won’t be magic, but it “might” give you that tiny bit extra consistency you are looking for, if all else is dialed in.
They do work!
My old bench shooting CZ 455, shooting at 50 yards and 6x5 cards:
- Started with factory barrel and with the ammo it liked, it averaged 0.5” groups.
- Swapped in a Lilja barrel and the ammo it liked, and groups dropped into low 0.3’s.
- Added the Harrells tuner and groups dropped to low 0.2’s.
We have a few more options in some of our airguns to work on harmonic tuning, so we don’t always need a tuner. But depending on your rifle and the adjustability you have, the tuner might be that extra piece you need to find you that tiny bit extra consistency you are looking for. It comes down to what you need. Would the Lilja have been enough for me in the backyard? Absolutely! Was it enough at the range with the guys trying to beat them? I could use a little more help and it helped dial it in just a bit more.
Like everyone else said, it won’t be magic, but it “might” give you that tiny bit extra consistency you are looking for, if all else is dialed in.
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There is simply no such thing as a dead barrel! On stiffer barrels the difference it make will be smaller but it will be there. Just like sort, weight and lube pellets it’s for that last 1-2% increase in accuracy, it certainly won’t fix bad tunes. Most people aren’t looking for that last 1-2% so it’s NOT for everyone. Saying it doesn’t work is like saying Ferrari is a slow car because you drove your Camry next to one in traffic.
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I admit I haven’t used a FX brand tuner, on a FX barrel. So I don’t know anything about these? Only my simplistic style of homemade tuner.
I have Two Gene Beggs style tuners on order for my RAW 25m guns , If I can achieve repeatable results? This should improve my scores or hopefully I will be able to shoot more of my inaccurate JSB pellets accurately enough for competition. If this works for those guns I will try one on my longer range gun.
I will test these in my basement this winter at 17yds, this way I will have no atmospheric or other unseen influences or conditions to skew my results. I have tested different lots of pellets this way over the last several years and it has worked well for me.
The “DEAD” barrel was a term I refer to for the effect a tuner has, not a scientific explanation of the details for how and why a tuner works.
I have Two Gene Beggs style tuners on order for my RAW 25m guns , If I can achieve repeatable results? This should improve my scores or hopefully I will be able to shoot more of my inaccurate JSB pellets accurately enough for competition. If this works for those guns I will try one on my longer range gun.
I will test these in my basement this winter at 17yds, this way I will have no atmospheric or other unseen influences or conditions to skew my results. I have tested different lots of pellets this way over the last several years and it has worked well for me.
The “DEAD” barrel was a term I refer to for the effect a tuner has, not a scientific explanation of the details for how and why a tuner works.
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I have the removable FX tuner mounted on my .22 M3 and it’s performance is flabbergasting. It took a tin of pellets to tune it in but when I found the sweet spot it was magical, hole in hole accuracy with zero fliers, which is the amazing part. I’m shooting AA18’s straight from the tin.
Last weekend we had a .22LR indoor shoot at our club shooting at 50’, using NRA A-36 targets. We shot 4 cards for a possible 400 perfect score. I won the match with a 398 against some very good shooters using high end custom .22LR BR rifles, using my M3 and I’m no pro shooter by any means. Sure, it’s only 50’, Whoopi you say but I still had to do my part of aligning cross hairs, holding the rifle stead on a wobbly Caldwell bench, use proper breath control and trigger control. It’s one shot per bull, so mistakes are seen and not hidden under ragged hole groups. Call it what you want but it’s working so well on this rifle that I’m scared to death to touch anything!
Last weekend we had a .22LR indoor shoot at our club shooting at 50’, using NRA A-36 targets. We shot 4 cards for a possible 400 perfect score. I won the match with a 398 against some very good shooters using high end custom .22LR BR rifles, using my M3 and I’m no pro shooter by any means. Sure, it’s only 50’, Whoopi you say but I still had to do my part of aligning cross hairs, holding the rifle stead on a wobbly Caldwell bench, use proper breath control and trigger control. It’s one shot per bull, so mistakes are seen and not hidden under ragged hole groups. Call it what you want but it’s working so well on this rifle that I’m scared to death to touch anything!
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Over three different sessions I have shot 5-6 shot groups and adjusted between each group. The first two sessions were gross adjustments, turning the dial 1/8th of a rotation each time at major sub-tensions. Those two sessions showed a repeating pattern of tightening and loosening groups. I chose the first major shrinkage as my focal point, as it is closest to the fully extended length and therefore easier to re-set at the base line "zero".
Today I started examined the prior targets, and determined that between 6 and 7 major ticks from zero was the first best area to examine. I shot groups from 5.0 to 8.0 turns and then shot from 8.0.to 5.0 turns, making a minor tick adjustment between each group. There was some wind, even so, there was a repeating and noticable trend in the group size. I will repeat the test again on a different day to normalize the data. Note, I am not a super shooter and I make no claims to be otherwise.
Does the threaded weighted adjuster make a difference in how MY gun shoots?? Yep, it sure does. Does it magically make all my pellets go perfectly where I want them?? Of course not!
I expect the tuner will eventually help my tune to reach a plateau, where most errors can then be traced to the fool on the trigger rather than the tool in his hands. Take out one variable at a time.
Today I started examined the prior targets, and determined that between 6 and 7 major ticks from zero was the first best area to examine. I shot groups from 5.0 to 8.0 turns and then shot from 8.0.to 5.0 turns, making a minor tick adjustment between each group. There was some wind, even so, there was a repeating and noticable trend in the group size. I will repeat the test again on a different day to normalize the data. Note, I am not a super shooter and I make no claims to be otherwise.
Does the threaded weighted adjuster make a difference in how MY gun shoots?? Yep, it sure does. Does it magically make all my pellets go perfectly where I want them?? Of course not!
I expect the tuner will eventually help my tune to reach a plateau, where most errors can then be traced to the fool on the trigger rather than the tool in his hands. Take out one variable at a time.
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Jim, what distance were you testing and conditions? Do you have pictures of your settings and groups I’m interested, I will be testing at 17yds indoors this winter. I will be using a different style tuner, it will work to accomplish the same result other tuners do.
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40 yards
AA domes in .25
820-ish fps.
25x scope
Light variable winds
Picture to follow. Im working tonight.
AA domes in .25
820-ish fps.
25x scope
Light variable winds
Picture to follow. Im working tonight.
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When I installed the FX removeable tuner on my M3 I screwed the weight all the way towards the gun, until it stopped. I shot groups at that setting then backed the weight out towards the muzzle in two graduation marks at a time and shot groups. If I remember correctly my final setting ended up being about 3/4 of a full resolution out from the initial starting position. I'm using a standard Superior liner with no CF liner reinforcement.
After I found the ideal position I marked two registration marks on the tuner and shroud using a silver Sharpie.
After I found the ideal position I marked two registration marks on the tuner and shroud using a silver Sharpie.
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