• *The discussion of the creation, fabrication, or modification of airgun moderators is prohibited. The discussion of any "adapters" used to convert an airgun moderator to a firearm silencer will result in immediate termination of the account.*

Airgun moderators and the 3 letter organization

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7Green

7Green

Member
Jul 19, 2021
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CA, United States
Reading up on Donnyfl's issues and other airgunners comments regarding moderators got me wondering what the Alphabet org considers a silencer.

https://www.Alphabet org.gov/firear...ers are NFA weapons,and pay the required tax.

Below is the text as it reads on their web page:

"Are paintball and airgun sound suppressers considered NFA weapons?


The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by Alphabet org’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be firearm silencers by nature of their design and function. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from Alphabet org and pay the required tax.
[26 U.S.C. 5845; 27 CFR 479.11]

Last Reviewed April 20, 2020"

The aforementioned begs the question what is the legal definition of a firearm in the United States Government Code and why is it that a silencer is considered a weapon, when if anything, it saves the average person from years of damage to their ears caused by the harmful effects of the noise generated by firearms.

USC 921(a)(3)

"(3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

Lets agree to not make this political and strictly discuss facts, opinions, and relevant case law as it pertains to our hobby.

Enjoy!
 
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In NYS, the DEC considers an airgun a “firearm” when used for hunting. And all the rules and regulations by the DEC that affect firearms apply. Don’t know how it specifically addresses moderators. I don’t believe it’s legal to attach moderators to firearms for hunting or any other purpose in NYS. So it is a potential “can of worms”. But aren’t all most laws concerning guns just that?
 
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7Green said:
Reading up on Donnyfl's issues and other airgunners comments regarding moderators got me wondering what the 3 letter organization considers a silencer.


Below is the text as it reads on their web page:

"Are paintball and airgun sound suppressers considered NFA weapons?


The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by 3 letter organization’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be firearm silencers by nature of their design and function. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from 3 letter organization and pay the required tax.
[26 U.S.C. 5845; 27 CFR 479.11]

Last Reviewed April 20, 2020"

The aforementioned begs the question what is the legal definition of a firearm in the United States Government Code and why is it that a silencer is considered a weapon, when if anything, it saves the average person from years of damage to their ears caused by the harmful effects of the noise generated by firearms.

USC 921(a)(3)

"(3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

Lets agree to not make this political and strictly discuss facts, opinions, and relevant case law as it pertains to our hobby.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...
no sign of a fire , just cold air behind a pellet, a flair gun by definition is a fire arm , so different rules for air guns ! and penchetta was the first to have guts and sell a air gun silencer ! youhad to go to best fittings to get a slip on collar that fit your barrell ! Penchetta only had ONE collar and you would hear the stories :unsure:
 
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For some that are not so familiar with our legal system:

Part of the issue is there are state laws that differ in every state. For example, these can be penal codes, health & safety codes, municipal codes, vehicle codes, etc.... These codes can also differ some from Federal Law.

Case law on the other hand, helps to define, eliminate or govern how some of these laws may be interpreted and enforced. Case law is developed through the courts. The higher the court "I.E. supreme court" the more binding they may become. I say may because they can also be deemed unconstitutional and thrown out. However, if a lower court has a ruling on a law it may be binding until challenged and reviewed by a higher court.

I am just curious if any recent case law has risen on the issue. Case law is constantly changing.
 
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7Green,
Just call me an old Marine, but isn't anything after the following verbiage irrelevant?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Maybe if we started marketing them as Sound Pollution Reducers it could all go away.

I just moved from Ca. they pass firearm restrictions when the wind blows. The bigger issued with the laws are A. Standing B. Funds It doesn't cost the government any "real" money to pass them, but it takes a Butt Load of Real money to fight them.

The only question is why do we put up with any changes of our basic freedoms?

Smitty
 
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They can not make up there mind. Do they want to hear it or do they not want to hear it. Its getting old others telling hard working folk what they can and can not do. The honest reason I shoot air guns is because I do not enjoy the bang so much any more. If I could have a can on my rifle I would. I do not see how the alphabet police can look at a item and cry foul with it when it does not pertain to them. You can buy on sportsman guide a Black powder rifle with a can built right on the end of the thing and have it shipped to your house in all 50 states without even a nics check. They are find with that so they should never have an issue with air guns.
 
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Id go by previous case president. You can do your own research and talk with your attorney to help decide. But there has been previous cases tried/convictions and my take away is the line in the sand being intention. After I got into air power I decided to get rid of all my PB threaded barrels so there is no question of my intentions. That includes both complete and loose barrels. I would never use the one thing on the other, since that is against federal law. Everyone should evaluate their own situation, but I dont want to spend any time behind bars.
 
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Smitty911 said:
7Green,
Just call me an old Marine, but isn't anything after the following verbiage irrelevant?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Maybe if we started marketing them as Sound Pollution Reducers it could all go away.

I just moved from Ca. they pass firearm restrictions when the wind blows. The bigger issued with the laws are A. Standing B. Funds It doesn't cost the government any "real" money to pass them, but it takes a Butt Load of Real money to fight them.

The only question is why do we put up with any changes of our basic freedoms?

Smitty
Click to expand...
I will keep this non-political, and just say we would probably get along great. My plan is to make my money, aka retirement, and run. 16 more years left and too invested to leave now.
 
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Airgunmann said:
They are different thread sizes from air guns to fire arms so it would be difficult for someone to install a a airgun only moderator onto a firearm and I'd never try it for one thing it would probably blow up
Click to expand...
Usually. There are some European PB barrels with 1/2×20 threads. Fortunately those usually don't come over here.
 
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Firewalker said:
Um... NO!

That is the international ordering site, go ahead and try to order from there in the USA...
Click to expand...
Don't think so, the one you are thinking about is in Mexico for the International trade. The red words are sort of a clue. Now I admit I'm in a foreign country, called California so the rules may be a touch different.
1684811635253.png
 
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