Airgun Moderators.....What’s the Legal Issues??

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Nalajr

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Hey all. 

I have been curious about this subject since getting into air rifles. I am also a gun nut and am familiar with the laws regarding NFA items, silencers, short barreled shotguns and rifles and full auto. VERY stringent requirements and mandated federal taxes on each item.

So, I was curious how the law handles suppressors made for air rifles. If I am seeing things right, there is no legal issue as long as they are for air rifles. Is that true? Do the suppressors have to be pinned or attached in place to prevent their use on a powder burner?

if I had a .22 air rifle that was unreasonably loud and I wanted to enjoy it in my back yard, I could easily buy a moderator or suppressor for it without much trouble at all. Correct? Are there any requirements that must be met in order to prevent their use in a .22 LR pistol or rifle?

I’m just curious. I have no need for one right now, but at some point if I get a PCP, I will likely want one. I hope no one looks upon this question negatively or thinking I have nefarious ideas at hand. I assure you I do not. I have no desire at all to do anything that would jeopardize my freedom or my ability to ever own another firearm or air rifle.

I’m just interested in learning about these aspects of airgunning that I’m not yet familiar with. If I am breaking a rule by asking this, mentioning it, or anything else regarding these items, please REMOVE THIS POST IMMEDIATELY and let me know that it’s a no-no. 

Thank you all again for your continued help. Have a great week!

larry
 
"If I am seeing things right, there is no legal issue as long as they are for air rifles. Is that true?" 

I think there is something either stated or inferred in the language along the lines that there's no problem with airgun moderators as long as they're specific enough to a specific airgun that it isn't easily adapted to firearms. That so, I suggest One not push One's luck by straying toward such bounds. I know of one individual serving time related to airgun moderators.
 
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Larry, check your local laws for specific information. The NFA, which is law that governs FIREarms is where the regulation on FIREarms silencer/muffler/moderator is contained.

AIRguns are not federally controlled. You can use a legally owned FIREarm suppressor on an airgun if you want. You cannot legally use an airgun LDC/moderator/silencer on a FIREarm. Most airgun LDC are not built strong enough to be used on a FIREarm.

Thus is a large part of the resistance I have for the act of intentionally causing a piston gun "diesel". By causing detonation in the gun, you now have a firearm and not an airgun.
 
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I am not a lawyer so take this more as opinion, but...

A recent case handled by the government was a case involving a Mr. Crooker. The guy is generally a nut, but while investigating him for making threats on a government official while he was trying to manufacture Ricin, they detained him and did a search on his outgoing mail. The feds found a package that he shipped to a guy in the midwest and intercepted it in transit. It contained a "silencer for an airgun."

As a felon, he was charged with posession of an illegal and unregistered firearm by the prosecution per BATF&E and was convicted. He fought his conviction, and after years in prison, a Federal court heard his appeal and his conviction was overturned. He was released, and years later he was awarded over $171,000 in damages for his loss of liberty while being "unlawfully detained."

What is interesting about this case was how the judges ruled in their reasoning to overturn it and release him. Basically, there is a flaw in interpretation on how the Alphabet org views the regulation of "silencers." The key word in question was "for." The judges acknowledged [in so many words] that the "silencer" that Mr. Crooker owned was indeed manufactured for use on an air rifle.

Under federal law, state and local municipalities are forbidden to deem airguns as firearms. Therefore, a "silencer" manufactured specifically for "airgun use only" does not fall into the Alphabet org's jurisdiction as long as the device cannot be readily fitted to a firearm, and does not lower the report of the firearm by 1 db over the course of one shot cycle.

In Mr. Crookers appeal, there was an interesting notation by one of the judges, who stated something to the effect that even though the device that he owned was intended for air rifle use, and the court acknowledged that although it seemed that Mr. Crooker had extensive knowledge about firearms (which suggests he could have been more than capable of mounting the device on a firearm) the judges ruled that it still wasn't enough to uphold the conviction.

Basically, the judges said that "coulda woulda shoulda" wasn't enough to stay his sentence, because he showed no intent to break the law and ever mount it onto a firearm. This is important, because the wording of the Alphabet org suggests that intent DOES NOT MATTER. The appellate court pumped the breaks on part of this and for one of the first times, added some common sense reasoning to the matter based SOLELY off of how the Alphabet org should operate based off the specific wording of their own law.

Now, if you have a $400 suppressor that has 28-pitch threads that is for a firearm, you better have a legit tax stamp from the feds to posess it. If you have a silencer built for airgun use only, and especially if it is permanently attached to the airgun, you are probably fine. If you own a Glock 19 and you throw that gun in your glovebox along with ypur airgun silencer laying next to it, be prepared to grab your ankles if a LEO sees that combo in close proximity.

Like I said, my free advice is worth what you have not paid for it. In most situations, an airgun silencer, mounted on an airgun for only that purpose will be just fine to most LEO's.... but I would hate to fall into a bees nest with it like Mr. Crooker did. He spent years in prison waiting for his case to be overturned on this matter.
 
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I had raised this issue on here regarding it specific to MA, but you may want to take a look over it here, just out of interest if anything: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/massachusetts-airgun-silencer-laws/.

It covers some of the things mentioned above. The thing that gets me is that if an airgun silencer can lower the DB of a firearm for one shot, even if it is then rendered useless, well it would then fall into the category of a firearm silencer, I'd have thought, but it all seems to become semantics.
 
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Well The law for silencers requires a stamp and a few hundred bucks , Currently pcp gun moderators are not considered silencers and they cant be fitted to a real gun as the pressures would blow them apart , and with no tag severe penalties

My thoughts on moderators is once laws for big bores becomes legal to hunt . they will reclassify them just for $$$$$$$$$

sorry if I offend anyone but here it is just about that . where I live they charge for stocking trout and birds , and collect money and they do nothing . years ago they used to manage things properly here but all they do now is raise fees and make laws horrible in some areas
 
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jwrabbit123,

Yup, it's all about control & money.
I live in the socialist state of NY [not even that disgrace to use all NY-City]
and even IF we were to jump through the Alphabet org required hoops and pay for the tax-stamp required for 'legally' owning a "firearm suppressor", 
NY-State deems them 100% illegal, and forbids it.

When it comes to AirGuns - as mentioned over and over and over again - Federally, this sort of thing isn't illegal and isn't regulated..
The way I see it, NY can stay out of our business and what better way to keep it that way is not to ' ask permission'...

Just like *registering fire arms*

We said it non stop - Don't do it! Eventually registration Will lead to confiscation..

Sheeple didn't listen though - They just complied without thought or hesitation, because - They always follow the rules..

Well guess what?! The govt [Local / State / Federal] has been coming for people's guns, and it is getting worse day by day.. 

People just need to wake up, and start learning and using common sense.. 

NY also attaches fee after fee after fee, and imposes fine after fine after fine for the stupidest things..
Fees for approval, licences, permits, services, etc.

It really bites for anyone wanting to have guns, certain accessories, hunt, fish, trap, etc..

*Shrug & Sigh* 

Sam -
 
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I had raised this issue on here regarding it specific to MA, but you may want to take a look over it here, just out of interest if anything: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/massachusetts-airgun-silencer-laws/.

It covers some of the things mentioned above. The thing that gets me is that if an airgun silencer can lower the DB of a firearm for one shot, even if it is then rendered useless, well it would then fall into the category of a firearm silencer, I'd have thought, but it all seems to become semantics.
Click to expand...

I hope that legislators here in NY don't read your post and get any bright ideas..
While what you mention makes sense, just about anything could then be broadly labeled the same way..
Pillows, Soda bottles, Oil filters, etc.
If they had their way, they'd include anything and everything they could think of, then add taxes, laws, rules, regulations, etc. on those things too..

Sadly, the idiocy never ends.. 

Sam -


 
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I had raised this issue on here regarding it specific to MA, but you may want to take a look over it here, just out of interest if anything: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/massachusetts-airgun-silencer-laws/.

It covers some of the things mentioned above. The thing that gets me is that if an airgun silencer can lower the DB of a firearm for one shot, even if it is then rendered useless, well it would then fall into the category of a firearm silencer, I'd have thought, but it all seems to become semantics.
Click to expand...

I hope that legislators here in NY don't read your post and get any bright ideas..
While what you mention makes sense, just about anything could then be broadly labeled the same way..
Pillows, Soda bottles, Oil filters, etc.
If they had their way, they'd include anything and everything they could think of, then add taxes, laws, rules, regulations, etc. on those things too..

Sadly, the idiocy never ends.. 

Sam -

Click to expand...

If you look at the wording in the Crooker case, they brought this to light. The judge who wrote it mentioned that an empty soda bottle or even a potato could cause silencing, therefore possession of such things should not be deemed as illegal for simply owning them. The judge specified INTENT that was not factual, which humbled the prosecutor and the Alphabet org. This is a big president.

This is a huge legal win for airgun enthusiasts. I know I am new here on this forum, but I have been intimately involved with firearms and supressors for over 30 years. I also research the law on a regular basis.

Don't act like sheep. Exercise your rights. A right less-exercised is a right that will be lost. The bigger thing to be worried about is airguns in general. Feds and the SCOTUS have ruled that airguns are NOT firearms. This is great news for those putting mods on their airguns. But since airguns don't fall into the 2A, this creates a potential problem. Over-bloated agencies like the EPA and others could instantly regulate or obliterate airguns in general due to "lead pollution," "noise pollution," or any other absurd scheme that these whackos come up with.

Speak up and fight. Your liberties are being assaulted on a daily basis. Fight on your feet or die on your knees.

PT
 
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When did the SCOTUS rule that airguns are not firearms? Does the 2nd Amendment protect the right to bear arms or only firearms? What happens in the future when everyone is using energy weapons?
Click to expand...

That's kind of my point, the SCOTUS ruled that firearms are "arms" under the the terms of the 2A, in their 2008 ruling, Scalia made it more clear than ever that anyone had a qualifying right to own a firearm. They did not specify "any" arms in this regard, only firearms, which makes this more important to airguns.

There's also the the 1968 ruling:  Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)

I can't ready find the more-recent ruling by the feds, but I am sure that a google search for Crooker or other related keywords will find it in there.


 
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So when my state (Socialist NY) says an airgun shooting over 600fps is considered a firearm for hunting, and in another section of the hunting regs says the use of a silencer is illegal. Is hunting with a LDC legal? The two are not tied together in the same sentence but would a rabbit cop give me a ticket? I still hunt with PCPs that are shrouded and have LDCs but conscious of where I do so. Federal laws dont mean diddly in this state to the liberals so for me I'm on a slippery slope everytime I pull the trigger on feather and fur. 
 
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I had raised this issue on here regarding it specific to MA, but you may want to take a look over it here, just out of interest if anything: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/massachusetts-airgun-silencer-laws/.

It covers some of the things mentioned above. The thing that gets me is that if an airgun silencer can lower the DB of a firearm for one shot, even if it is then rendered useless, well it would then fall into the category of a firearm silencer, I'd have thought, but it all seems to become semantics.
Click to expand...

I hope that legislators here in NY don't read your post and get any bright ideas..
While what you mention makes sense, just about anything could then be broadly labeled the same way..
Pillows, Soda bottles, Oil filters, etc.
If they had their way, they'd include anything and everything they could think of, then add taxes, laws, rules, regulations, etc. on those things too..

Sadly, the idiocy never ends.. 

Sam -

Click to expand...

If you look at the wording in the Crooker case, they brought this to light. The judge who wrote it mentioned that an empty soda bottle or even a potato could cause silencing, therefore possession of such things should not be deemed as illegal for simply owning them. The judge specified INTENT that was not factual, which humbled the prosecutor and the Alphabet org. This is a big president.

This is a huge legal win for airgun enthusiasts. I know I am new here on this forum, but I have been intimately involved with firearms and supressors for over 30 years. I also research the law on a regular basis.

Don't act like sheep. Exercise your rights. A right less-exercised is a right that will be lost. The bigger thing to be worried about is airguns in general. Feds and the SCOTUS have ruled that airguns are NOT firearms. This is great news for those putting mods on their airguns. But since airguns don't fall into the 2A, this creates a potential problem. Over-bloated agencies like the EPA and others could instantly regulate or obliterate airguns in general due to "lead pollution," "noise pollution," or any other absurd scheme that these whackos come up with.

Speak up and fight. Your liberties are being assaulted on a daily basis. Fight on your feet or die on your knees.

PT
Click to expand...

Right on man!

It's nice to 'meet you', and I'm relatively new on here too..
Been shooting and air-gunning for going on over 20+ years now also. Great info and thank you for sharing! 

While it's Great that the one judge did rule 'justly', our issues will be in the future where other judges may not.. 
I see a Lot of cases where the judicial system fails people because of their agenda / political views cloud their judgement.. 

Back to being from NY - We see a Lot of this with the influx of "liberals" in the judicial system and sitting up on benches.. 
I say that based on fact.. Not bias in any way..

I HATE politics, and despise both parties - I think they're a 2-headed-snake in a completely rigged system.

Anyway.. haha

Thank you again for chiming in! 

🙂👍 

Sam -
 
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So when my state (Socialist NY) says an airgun shooting over 600fps is considered a firearm for hunting, and in another section of the hunting regs says the use of a silencer is illegal. Is hunting with a LDC legal? The two are not tied together in the same sentence but would a rabbit cop give me a ticket? I still hunt with PCPs that are shrouded and have LDCs but conscious of where I do so. Federal laws dont mean diddly in this state to the liberals so for me I'm on a slippery slope everytime I pull the trigger on feather and fur.
Click to expand...

Hookster,

This is where govt' needs to stay out of our business, as they are vague, and often contradict themselves..
Especially here in Socialist-New-York. I'm originally from 'Central NY', and now in 'Upstate NY'...
Last year, I figured I'd finally take my hunter safety course so I could 'legally' hunt small game... 
When reading up on rules/regs/laws, and chatting with others, I learned something interesting..
I took a pause from the powder burner side, and brought up airgunning [Hunting with an airgun] 

I was told by the instructors at my sportsman's club that in NY - we can hunt with air rifles so long as they are .22 cal or larger. 
They did not specify anything about fps over 600fps being considered a firearm - so that is new to me 
[Unless you were using that as an example not an actual fact]

Either way - Nothing was mentioned regarding LDCs either, because again, airguns are not regulated 
[Unless NY-City is involved, because of course that's the part of the state we need to chisel off and sink]

I spent a LOT of time trying to find info on the specifics, and after hours and hours of searching, 
and not coming up with much of anything, I gave up..

General thoughts - NY just sucks!

🙂

Sam -

 
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The part no one takes into account is not if it is legal on an air gun. The part most forget to check, is if it is legal to hunt with. In most places in the US, it is not legal to hunt any game animal with a suppressed weapon. 

It is ignored law, till they want someone and use it as an excuse.
Click to expand...

THIS! This is an Excellent point, and great information! 

Again, it is just the vagueness of some of these 'laws', as well as how they're enforced..
Where I live - NY - We have to deal with the [IMO Unconstitutional] SAFE-Act. 
Where I'm from - Cortland County - Our police don't agree with it, and don't enforce it.

So yeah, it really depends not just on the State, but, the area / county / department, 
and can actually boil down to the individual person [LEO] from the start..

Sam -
 
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