The Founders Cup match results are now posted on the club website;
https://www.airgunnersofarizona.org/2019-founders-cup-match-report.html
Mark
https://www.airgunnersofarizona.org/2019-founders-cup-match-report.html
Mark
Results Airgunners of Arizona "Founders Cup" match results - Oct 19 from Mormon Lake, AZ
- Thread starter Mark.in.AZ
- Start date
Thank you for the report. I appreciate seeing the match reports and what other clubs are doing. Your match seems to be much like ours. It is interesting to see what divisions are popular at different clubs and in different parts of the country. Most shooters here are shooting hunter or WFTF. We started to run an unlimited or freestyle class few years ago because there was some interest but now we only get one or two shooters for that yet at your match there is interest.
Rick
Falls Twsp R & P Assn.
Rick
Falls Twsp R & P Assn.
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Thanks Rick.
We use the unlimited class for those shooters just coming into the sport or that are having difficulty with positions or vision concerns. They can still shoot, they can still be part of the game and group, and they enjoy themselves. Our oldest shooter is in his upper 80's, is not as spry as he once was, cannot get into position easily, and has "old eyes". Unlimited is perfect for him. The younger shooters are using the format to learn the game and determine what class they would like to compete in. It gives everyone a chance to learn the game before being thrown to the wolves in the other classes. Besides, it is fun.
Rick, I believe we have run into each other in the past when I lived back there and was a member of Lower Providence R&G Club in Audubon.
Mark
We use the unlimited class for those shooters just coming into the sport or that are having difficulty with positions or vision concerns. They can still shoot, they can still be part of the game and group, and they enjoy themselves. Our oldest shooter is in his upper 80's, is not as spry as he once was, cannot get into position easily, and has "old eyes". Unlimited is perfect for him. The younger shooters are using the format to learn the game and determine what class they would like to compete in. It gives everyone a chance to learn the game before being thrown to the wolves in the other classes. Besides, it is fun.
Rick, I believe we have run into each other in the past when I lived back there and was a member of Lower Providence R&G Club in Audubon.
Mark
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Thanks Mark for doing these match reports as well as all your other charitable duties, we appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just wanted to make some personal comments on Freestyle vs the other divisions. Some background, I've won 7 state matches over the years so I know about open division and have won regular matches in Hunter, as well as winning open springer at least once in a regular monthly match. I tried WFTF but my body does not bode well when sitting without a harness. I shoot freestyle now most of the time and love it!
Freestyle - I just do it for the fun of it even though I've been shooting FT for 20 plus years. Because I use a laser range finder and a rifle vice on a tripod the game becomes more about figuring out the windage needed. Having said that a miss can happen anytime if I don't use good form and follow through,
I like getting the exact distance so if I miss I know it's me. I disliked Hunter because I'd usually miss due to ranging error between 40 and 55 yards. I'm not sure I'll shoot that division again, I don't like it not knowing the distances and it seems kind of silly in a rifle comp if one thinks about it. EDIT - Heck even when hunting I'd want a humane kill via a well placed hit in the vitals, that would mean a point blank trajectory shot, or ranging accurately to the yard if the distance is farther than PB.
Getting up and down off the ground over the years got annoying to me, I'm glad not to have to anymore honestly, I can do it still but it takes away from the experience for me. Truth be told I have energy issues and have had for some time. I'm like a 70 year old in a 59 year old body unfortunately, at least I feel that way.
Just so people know there is movement in the system I use, when I used to shoot FT in prone via an attached bipod, doing so was much steadier than the mentioned equipment I use now. It's a little steadier than open using a harness but only slightly. I got tired of that too because it seemed at least once a match I'd clip some grass or a leaf.
I get beat often by shooters in other divisions so there isn't as much of a advantage as some would think shooting freestyle. Besides that there are the kneeling and offhand shots that everyone in all divisions must do in the same way. Next year I'm going to start using a sling because I'm getting too shaky, darnit!
I do this stuff for fun and to hang out with friends not to compete in the current accepted divisions even though that's what's expected by normal standards. Well also to do something different than what I've been doing all these years.
Story coming - Years ago I got into tactical rifle shooting with a centerfire and got prolific using holdovers, it became a passion of mine. I remember about 2011 when there was no thought of a freestyle division in FT, I was tired of the same old "same old" if you know what I mean. So I indeed did something different in a FT match knowing that any score was forfeit and that I was only shooting against myself. I took my same S&B tactical scope off (the one I use on my centerfire) and mounted it on my FT rig. I shot in the prone position with a attached bipod like I did in the tactical matches. I ranged using the reticle while using the kill zone sizes for reference, then used the same ballistic app I used for the centerfire to determine the distances by measuring in mils. Then used holdovers and holdoffs in .2 mils via the H59 reticle. Man I had more fun than I'd had in years doing that! Also got the high score that day, even though it didn't count.
I encourage all clubs to incorporate a freestyle division! It's fun for beginners and others.
I just wanted to make some personal comments on Freestyle vs the other divisions. Some background, I've won 7 state matches over the years so I know about open division and have won regular matches in Hunter, as well as winning open springer at least once in a regular monthly match. I tried WFTF but my body does not bode well when sitting without a harness. I shoot freestyle now most of the time and love it!
Freestyle - I just do it for the fun of it even though I've been shooting FT for 20 plus years. Because I use a laser range finder and a rifle vice on a tripod the game becomes more about figuring out the windage needed. Having said that a miss can happen anytime if I don't use good form and follow through,
I like getting the exact distance so if I miss I know it's me. I disliked Hunter because I'd usually miss due to ranging error between 40 and 55 yards. I'm not sure I'll shoot that division again, I don't like it not knowing the distances and it seems kind of silly in a rifle comp if one thinks about it. EDIT - Heck even when hunting I'd want a humane kill via a well placed hit in the vitals, that would mean a point blank trajectory shot, or ranging accurately to the yard if the distance is farther than PB.
Getting up and down off the ground over the years got annoying to me, I'm glad not to have to anymore honestly, I can do it still but it takes away from the experience for me. Truth be told I have energy issues and have had for some time. I'm like a 70 year old in a 59 year old body unfortunately, at least I feel that way.
Just so people know there is movement in the system I use, when I used to shoot FT in prone via an attached bipod, doing so was much steadier than the mentioned equipment I use now. It's a little steadier than open using a harness but only slightly. I got tired of that too because it seemed at least once a match I'd clip some grass or a leaf.
I get beat often by shooters in other divisions so there isn't as much of a advantage as some would think shooting freestyle. Besides that there are the kneeling and offhand shots that everyone in all divisions must do in the same way. Next year I'm going to start using a sling because I'm getting too shaky, darnit!
I do this stuff for fun and to hang out with friends not to compete in the current accepted divisions even though that's what's expected by normal standards. Well also to do something different than what I've been doing all these years.
Story coming - Years ago I got into tactical rifle shooting with a centerfire and got prolific using holdovers, it became a passion of mine. I remember about 2011 when there was no thought of a freestyle division in FT, I was tired of the same old "same old" if you know what I mean. So I indeed did something different in a FT match knowing that any score was forfeit and that I was only shooting against myself. I took my same S&B tactical scope off (the one I use on my centerfire) and mounted it on my FT rig. I shot in the prone position with a attached bipod like I did in the tactical matches. I ranged using the reticle while using the kill zone sizes for reference, then used the same ballistic app I used for the centerfire to determine the distances by measuring in mils. Then used holdovers and holdoffs in .2 mils via the H59 reticle. Man I had more fun than I'd had in years doing that! Also got the high score that day, even though it didn't count.
I encourage all clubs to incorporate a freestyle division! It's fun for beginners and others.
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Steve, we lobbied hard to have freestyle incorporated as an AAFTA sanctioned class in 2017, but to no avail. I am hoping someday that they will reconsider. After all, we are all getting older, less mobile, but still love to shoot.
Thanks for all your help this past summer season!
Mark
Thanks for all your help this past summer season!
Mark
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You are welcome Mark!
Makes little difference to me if AAFTA goes with a freestyle division but it would be neat to see. I don't plan on traveling anymore to other clubs so I'm good right where I'm at.
Man I hope we can find a more appropriate spot to have our matches down south somewhere, sure would be nice to get out of the governmental chains and all the various fee's, etc, BA is trying to squeeze us with.
Well onto my other shooting sports for the winter, NRL22, some long range centerfire, maybe some 22rf silhouette or vintage sniper matches.
Makes little difference to me if AAFTA goes with a freestyle division but it would be neat to see. I don't plan on traveling anymore to other clubs so I'm good right where I'm at.
Man I hope we can find a more appropriate spot to have our matches down south somewhere, sure would be nice to get out of the governmental chains and all the various fee's, etc, BA is trying to squeeze us with.
Well onto my other shooting sports for the winter, NRL22, some long range centerfire, maybe some 22rf silhouette or vintage sniper matches.
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G
Guest
Guest
The only rasin for a sanctioned FS class would be for an award at Grand Prix's and National's. Otherwise you only need to follow the rules for one match and pay the fee to get a yearly vote at the meeting. Doesn't seem like much for all that AAFTA does for us but I digress. Run whatever classes you like but for the aforementioned events. Most clubs around me run Open as an anything goes class. No need to add freestyle to the mix.
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Hi John,
Just asking for curiosity and conversation.
Suppose I showed up to one of those clubs you mentioned and signed up for open class, and all the while assuming that I could use my laser range finder and tripod with my RRS rifle vice, thus enduring many funny looks and snide comments, lol, and I shot high score that day, wouldn't the other open shooters complain since the way I shoot freestyle does not comply to open division rules? I can certainly see their point and wouldn't want to offend them.
In the above scenario, personally I'd just say I'm doing my own thing and am not competing in any recognized division but just having fun.
Ha, I almost used a friends Mule side by side ATV to shoot out of at our state match on one lane just to show the photo and to say that I did it just for laughs. Because there are "no" rules in our freestyle division for now anyway.
Just asking for curiosity and conversation.
Suppose I showed up to one of those clubs you mentioned and signed up for open class, and all the while assuming that I could use my laser range finder and tripod with my RRS rifle vice, thus enduring many funny looks and snide comments, lol, and I shot high score that day, wouldn't the other open shooters complain since the way I shoot freestyle does not comply to open division rules? I can certainly see their point and wouldn't want to offend them.
In the above scenario, personally I'd just say I'm doing my own thing and am not competing in any recognized division but just having fun.
Ha, I almost used a friends Mule side by side ATV to shoot out of at our state match on one lane just to show the photo and to say that I did it just for laughs. Because there are "no" rules in our freestyle division for now anyway.
Upvote 0
