Airguns are different

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lewilbar

lewilbar

Member
Feb 8, 2021
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Tennessee, United States
Hi gents. My first post! I'm new to this side of the hobby but not to shooting. My experience is with pistols and shotguns, very little practice with rifles of any kind but I can swing a shotgun and point a pistol and load for them too so I'll get there eventually.

I have an Impact .22 (600mm) on order and I'm researching a scope for it So hi again! Not for hunting but backyard plinking, ranged targets and silhouette appeal. I can see how people get into field target. If that happens I'll deal with it then. This is going to be my first scoped rifle of any type. Yeah. I'm always a little late to the party! Anyway........ my budget is $1500 but I'd be happy to keep it nearer $1000 if possible. The again, I hate buying things twice so it's not going to kill me to step up to the bar if I have to.

A 10 yd focus/parallax ability is desirable and that rules out some otherwise neat stuff, but that's just my opinion of the moment because the kind of shooting I am good at is almost all over iron sights or no sights at all. I hope that helps you help me. I've been thinking between 3-18x to 5-20x (ish) since the market seems to be rich in choice there. I'm quite open to sfp scopes but everything seems to be ffp at my budget and general spec. Following are some I picked out. There are a few others that look good but I'm a newb. All these have a reticle option I think I can enjoy, but that would be good to discuss too.

Short list of representative scopes: Element Nexus, Delta Titanium 4X24, Ares ETR 3-18X, USO TS20X. I'm open to other suggestions as regards similar priced SFP scopes. It makes sense that an SFP has advantages in this situation but they are pretty thin on the ground except for scopes that don't seem quite as versatile as I'd think I'd like. For instance I looked into NF SHV but they only focus down to 25 yds.

I know these kind of questions get asked and it's like being asked to be branded as a newbie but I have done some research to get here and it's a lot to chew on. None of the things I want to see are available anywhere near me. The stores don't have comparable product, never mind these actual models, and the sales people I've met so far are dumber than I am about this. That's pretty dumb. So have at me!
 
I'm not sure you can do better than a Delta Stryker 5-50x56 in that price range. It has more magnification than you are asking for but most scopes are clearest in the middle of their range anyway which means a 6-24 is usually not as good at 24 as it is at 16 etc. Also you mentioned field target and the Delta Stryker would certainly let you grow into that sport if you should choose. The only real drawback is that it is a large heavy optic. It should be great on your impact though! That's where I have mine.
 
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Welcome aboard matee, rrrrrrrr





There are a lot of options out there under 1k unless you are insisting on spending money without getting tier one glass. I'm a Leupold guy from rim fire days, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but a lot of people think spending 1k or $1500 is going to get them closer to Swarovski like glass. It won't. I also am a stickler for FFP. A hear a lot of people liking the Ares and I have checked it out in person. Really nice scope. The Element scopes seem to have mixed reviews but is pushed and marketed a LOT on sponsored videos on Youtube. I haven't checked it out in person so it could be really good or all hype. I would go into a brick and mortar store and check out some glass in person if you are serious about spending for a mid-quality glass. Go to AoA they have a showroom and they might have some of those options, or Utah Airguns (haven't been there) personally.




 
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Currently the Japan made Crimson Trace 3 and 5 series on sale at MidwayUSA are very hard to beat based on what you get for what they are selling for. They are selling for less than half price.

Ask Lewis if it's worrh 1/3x the Delta Stryker sells for when looking through them side by side at the same magnifucation levels.

If you dont mind 25 yard focus the Athlon Cronus Gen1 from Cameraland are hard to beat if you insist on spending just over $1000 and getting a really great deal for a $1699-$1799 scope that's also Japan made.

The 25 yard focus Japan Tract Toric is another winner in my book and worth paying retail for them IMHO. I only tend to push deals though...




 
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Currently the Japan made Crimson Trace 3 and 5 series on sale at MidwayUSA are very hard to beat based on what you get for what they are selling for. They are selling for less than half price.

Ask Lewis if it's worrh 1/3x the Delta Stryker sells for when looking through them side by side at the same magnifucation levels.

If you dont mind 25 yard focus the Athlon Cronus Gen1 from Cameraland are hard to beat if you insist on spending just over $1000 and getting a really great deal for a $1699-$1799 scope that's also Japan made.

The 25 yard focus Japan Tract Toric is another winner in my book and worth paying retail for them IMHO. I only tend to push deals though...



Click to expand...

👆 Scope master has arrived.
 
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Lewilbar,

welcome to AGN! 😄👍🏼



🔶There is a thread that compares powder burner (PB) scopes to airgun (AG) scopes:

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/choosing-an-airgun-scope-vs-powder-burner-scope-%f0%9f%a4%94-whats-the-difference/





🔶 And there are a couple of Scope Specs Tables for airgun suitable scopes, divided into SFP and FFP.

All have 10y side parallax, exposed turrets, and holdoff reticles. 



The table lists their typical prices, and other specs relevant to airgun shooting — depending on your shooting scenarios and personal preferences!





🔶 The Specs Tables make more sense when understanding the additional requirements that AG shooting demands of scopes as compared to PB as explained in the above post.



😄 Happy scope shopping. This is a good time to be an airgunner! So much cool stuff coming out these last few years, performance hugely improved....! 😄



Matthias



❌ Attachment: Scope Specs Table 3-18x | 4-16x

download.png
View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For 4-14x 3-18x, 4-16x Magnification. 078. 2021-02.1613016311.pdf



❌ Attachment: Scopes Specs Table 5-20x | 6-24x | 5-25x | 5-30x

download.png
View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For 6-20x 6-24x, 5-20x, 5-30x Magnification. 121. 2021-02.1613016343.pdf


 
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Currently the Japan made Crimson Trace 3 and 5 series on sale at MidwayUSA are very hard to beat based on what you get for what they are selling for. They are selling for less than half price.

Ask Lewis if it's worrh 1/3x the Delta Stryker sells for when looking through them side by side at the same magnifucation levels.

If you dont mind 25 yard focus the Athlon Cronus Gen1 from Cameraland are hard to beat if you insist on spending just over $1000 and getting a really great deal for a $1699-$1799 scope that's also Japan made.

The 25 yard focus Japan Tract Toric is another winner in my book and worth paying retail for them IMHO. I only tend to push deals though...



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Yep, He is absolutely correct. The Crimson trace 3 series at Midway for 499.00 is a steal. It is also made in Japan and has great turrets. It focuses down to 10 yards and is FFP for those who prefer it. They are currently out of stock. Hopefully, they will be back in stock before the sale ends. I like them so much I ended up with 6 of them!!
 
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Thanks to all for input. Let me reply as best I can to make sure ya'll steer me down the right path.

I'm in Tennessee. I'd love to go to a decent store but there's no airgun dealer that sells anything remotely like what I want in the state, and that includes optics. I find that's true for dealers of conventional guns as well. It's hard to find the kind of stuff I'm into locally. The state is gun crazy, but mostly self defense or hunting arms. Whatever I buy it will have to be an educated guess based on the best info I can gather (and with liberal return privileges) but I want to be reasonably informed before I ask anybody to ship me something. Closest airgun guy is two states away, the powder guys are busy selling Glocks, ARs and HKs and for shotguns, Morini. I'm more of a Superposed/Perazzi guy which might explain why my first airgun would be more aspirational and confusing to put together :).

@ Michael. I would like to think I will be making full use of the reticle while holding over and dial the turrets too. I need to learn the tool. Ask me in six months what my preferred technique is and I might have an intelligent answer.

@Lewis....that's my name, same spelling too. I tried for it as a forum handle but you already took it! I like the the Stryker idea a great deal but I thought it was a little over budget . Their lit shows it at near $2500. On your recommendation I just now googled around and it wasn't hard to find it selling for less, still a bit more than I wanted to spend but not as much as I originally thought. I'll consider it as a more realistic possibility as I ponder if I am worthy of the extra outlay. Thanks for adding to Crimson Trace recommendation.

Honestly, I am unsure where this goes as far as my use case. I will shoot more, enjoy it and learn a new discipline with this rifle. I know I will not be happy if I don't buy what I reasonably want. I didn't expect tier one for my budget (under $1500 if I can stay strong) . I do want to get something that will see me through my teething experience and help me be a better shooter, is fun to use and offers real value and a measure of quality. Maybe that costs more than $1500 but I was hoping not! 

@HPAMAN The Ares ETR 3X18 has been high on my list based on research to date and its competitive pricing. It has the benefit of 10 yard parallax compensation in 3-18X which I is a feature want, and gets good report cards. It's also at the lower end of my range and I think it sounds like a good deal. I was looking at their Cronosbut no close parallax there. I think I understand the controversy around the Nexus. It's derivative as well but it ticks my boxes on paper so I wanted to give it some space in the conversation. We both find the ETR attractive but in my case, it's only what I have read on the internet. That's why I'm here.

@Odoyle: thank you too! I'll be looking at all these things tomorrow as I enjoy the process.

I like to think I buy stuff that has balanced performance. For that reason magnification has not been that high on my list. Am I missing something about shooting this thing (casually for now) inside a maximum of 200 yards? Most of my shooting to start will be inside 100 actually.


 
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Before you buy whatever expensive scope you should buy an Alpha6 4.5-27x50 as a base minimum to compare other more expensive scopes to and keep the more expensive scope only if you feel that it's worth paying that much more than $229 shipped from Ebay. 

Prices are totally relevant on what's worth paying for and what's not and are just simply overpriced for what you get including inferior glass at an exponentially higher cost.

If you are rich and well 0 off financially and simply have the cash to blow then disregard everything I just said.

There are airgunners selling off their more expensive scopes after they bought their $229 Alpha6.
 
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The Japan made Crimson Trace 3 series 5-25x56 at MidwayUSA. You probably want high magnification if your gun is actually accurate.

Backordered-

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619370

In stock-

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619264

This ☝ one glass is like my Nightforce SHV with 25 yard focus and SFP illuminated center with zero stop that cost 3x the price.

This 5 series is clearer than the 3 series and ckearer than the Nightforce SHV and all other scopes you mentioned above.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619673?pid=259746

☝ only a Tract Toric or Nightforce NX8 and above $2000 like the Kahles and March are clearer. Paying $899.50 for a $1999.00 scope sounds reasonable to me unless you'd rather pay $1499 for a $1499 scope instead?
 
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A few thoughts this morning and thanks to all for your kind replies. Here's what I think I've learned so far from following up on your suggestions. I think the ability to be used down to 10 yards is important and unfortunately rules out some otherwise very appealing suggestions.

Delta Stryker: Looks desirable to me as a first scope in almost every way but minimum focus and parallax is 25 yards (some sources say 23 yards?) which is not ideal for my use case. Prices are all over the map on this one but I haven't seen anything under about $1500. The price doesn't rule it out for me but the confusion I have regarding near field parallax and focus (is it 10 yds or 25? Lit says 25) does for the time being. The ten year warranty is not a big deterrent in this case as that's enough to last about as long as I will. (I'm in my 70s). Unfortunately the parallax situation if I understand it correctly is not ideal for me.

Crimson Trace 3 & 5: Both usable down to 10 yards and meet my feature set while the price is very appealing. I favor the 5 series on the theory that it is likely to be the better scope for me. I'm comfortable to buy it without feeling selfish. My wife's been a champ throughout this whole thing. Domestic conversation: "Honey...,I'm going to spend $4500 on what you'll view as a fancy BB gun, plus the other crap I need to use it. OK?" Reply from her: "Yeah, whatever. I give up on you and your hobbies!" 

Athlon Ares ETR 3-18: As above, meets all feature criteria I think I need. The higher mag ETR 4.5-30 is also fully featured for my requirements but only corrects for focus and parallax to 25 yards making the 3-18 version more everyday usable for me. This unit remains on the short list.

Cronos in all 56mm versions will not close focus to 10 yards, is stricken from the list for this reason. Track Toric has the same shortcoming for me. An attractive unit flawed mainly by my use case.

Nexus: Controversy and general "meh" from ya'll regarding this line puts it lower on the list although the feature set is right on the money. I can order one for trial and may consider doing that despite reservations about getting on board with a heavily hyped unit. However, it's unclear that it offers anything substantially better or more innovative than the $1K units being discussed here.

Nobody has yet commented on the US Optics TX20X which seems to be discounted at a number of online vendors, including the US Optics site itself which gives you an automatic 10% off just for buying the thing. I have seen other deeper discounts as well with many vendors having a different price on this unit. Feature set, name recognition and warranty of this scope coupled with online reviews make it appealing. Your opinions are valued should you have experience with this scope. It seems suitable as regards features and price is comfortably in line with my budget.

That leaves the Ares and CT5 as well regarded units that are attractively priced below $1K yet have the feature set I think I require. The Nexus runs in third place to these since it also is close focusing but at a higher price and with some controversy. I'm wide open to more comments and your recommendations. Please fell free to correct or direct me if I am getting any of this wrong. Being wrong is something I'm used to so I can take it!

There's no immediate urgency except for my own impatience. I imagine that any one of several of these would be suitable. I think I'll need to order two or three from places I can return them without undue guilt or remorse (Amazon?) although I ultimately prefer to buy one from an industry vendor. I don't know any other way to see them without significant travel that I am reluctant to do at this time.




 
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I like



This 5 series is clearer than the 3 series and ckearer than the Nightforce SHV and all other scopes you mentioned above.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619673?pid=259746

☝ only a Tract Toric or Nightforce NX8 and above $2000 like the Kahles and March are clearer. Paying $899.50 for a $1999.00 scope sounds reasonable to me unless you'd rather pay $1499 for a $1499 scope instead?
Click to expand...


It has everything I'd need. I did look around and there's not too much to read about it but as you guys suggest, they appear to have put everything they could into it and they expected it to sell in the $1800-2000 range. That does make it look like the bargain of the bunch. I would have a hard time with it at its retail but at $900 I may have a solution. Impressive and does everything I need. The reticle looks strange but I don't have enough experience to know if that is a downside. They have a return policy so I may order it with the expectation I'll keep it. Otherwise the Ares looks like a good bet to me and doesn't break the bank.

I'm glad I signed up. You've all been very helpful. Truth is, shopping and anticipation is half the fun.
 
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Welcome Lewis!

Some things to consider before you order anything. 

First off As I like to say "EVERYTHING about a scope is EVERYTHING!" In your case there's a steep learning curve when it comes to this because lets face it "you don't know what you don't know so it's EASY to get a scope and be dissatisfied because someone said THIS was great about it but didn't say THAT was poorly done.

Starting with the lowest common denominator with a $40 cheap walmart SFP scope. You can buy one, sight it in, and hit stuff, and it might even be acceptable for some things like shooting a squirrel 20 yards away, etc, and that's often all someone wants to do anyway.

Then the highest common denominator which would be the Tier 1 highest end scopes which for the most part are worthy of the price and loaded with the latest features. These are super nice but obviously overkill for most airguns and airgun purposes and best appreciated by those that know and want what they have to offer.

Watch out for tight eyeboxes which are hard for people that aren't used to looking through a riflescope to deal with. There are some scopes that people like because the glass is decent but....

Don't expect to see the reticle well on low power with FFP scopes that are mid to higher power magnification without daylight bright illumination during the day, basically from 3-15 scopes on up, but with most FFP scopes, from 6-8x on up, one can usually make use of the reticle. The reticle appears to shrink when the magnification is dialed down and get larger when the magnification is dialed up.

SFP scopes have the reticle accurate to true mil or moa on one magnification and FFP scopes have true mil or moa accurate on any magnification. SFP the reticle appears to remain the same size throughout the magnification range.

Some scopes have mushy turrets, no zero stop, poorly done locking mechanisms, no revolution indicators on the housing, the lines on the turrets don't line up with the line on the housing, and worse of all a scopes tracking can be off. Some have dismal glass, are super heavy, super long, 50Y minimum parallax, controls that turn either too hard or to soft, there's more but some things get annoying from a personal perspective as well. For whatever reason some scope models just turn out better than others even higher priced ones.

That Athlon ETR 3-18x50 would make a great choice but for target I personally like at least 24x. It isn't out yet as far as I know but I will probably buy one to see if it turned out well.

I got my Cronus BTR G2 4.5-29x56 yesterday and let me just say that that thing is an absolute DESTROYER of riflescopes!!!! Man oh man did it ever turn out well!!!!!! I'm convinced this is the scope to beat for 2021 in this price range. If you can live with lower magnification like 10x when shooting at 20 yards it'll still be in focus. I found out yesterday that on 4.5x with the illumination on daylight bright it's fantastic a little closer than 20Y. I haven't decided yet which air rifle I'm putting it on but it'll either end up on my Thomas HPX or my Vulcan2 30 cal which I won't be shooting less than 25Y with much.

If you don't foresee using illumination get a Athlon Midas TAC 6-24. IMHO it's the best FFP in it's price range. That one turned out great.


 
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Hi Steve, thanks for the welcome. I bet you are excited. I'm having fun with this and fun comes in handy if less frequently these days. Anyway..... I have ordered three things actually just a minute ago. Two will certainly be returned, the other remains to be seen, Ares and the USO TX20 from Amazon and Crimson Trace 5 from Midwest. I'll have a few things to compare and ponder. I'm in Tn now but originally from Seattle so I never feel guilty about returning things to Amazon, if you know what I mean. If none of these work out I'll look into the Chronos. I'd already considered it but previously ruled it out for parallax but I'm open. Amazon were shy the 3-18 Ares so I ordered the 4-30 or whatever it is. That will give me a chance to see if I can live with a bit less in the nearer field focus department.

@odoyle, I checked Crimson Trace's website before placing an order and it looks like they have gone through some dramatic changes with their offerings. I imagine these are close outs and I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 is a good scope too, although I have expectations for all three of the ones I ordered. Thanks for your input. It's appreciated.
 
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Hi Steve, thanks for the welcome. I bet you are excited. I'm having fun with this and fun comes in handy if less frequently these days. Anyway..... I have ordered three things actually just a minute ago. Two will certainly be returned, the other remains to be seen, Ares and the USO TX20 from Amazon and Crimson Trace 5 from Midwest. I'll have a few things to compare and ponder. I'm in Tn now but originally from Seattle so I never feel guilty about returning things to Amazon, if you know what I mean. If none of these work out I'll look into the Chronos. I'd already considered it but previously ruled it out for parallax but I'm open. Amazon were shy the 3-18 Ares so I ordered the 4-30 or whatever it is. That will give me a chance to see if I can live with a bit less in the nearer field focus department.

@odoyle, I checked Crimson Trace's website before placing an order and it looks like they have gone through some dramatic changes with their offerings. I imagine these are close outs and I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 is a good scope too, although I have expectations for all three of the ones I ordered. Thanks for your input. It's appreciated.
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That's a great strategy Lewis. It'll be a good learning experience seeing what you prefer and what you don't. 

I forgot to mention this but another thing that had always bothered me from the getgo is reticles that have line marking numbers barely off the vertical crosshair. I holdover a lot and it seemed like a fair portion of the time there would be that stupid number right where I wanted to aim. If the number is at least a couple mils away from the vertical crosshair then they don't obscure a shot hardly ever. If you have to hold off 2 mils off then that's very windy. In contrast if the number is .5 mils away from the vertical crosshair that's a common holdoff for windage so it tends to obscure much more often.


 
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