Airguns are different

[lewilbar]

Update on the condition of the scope: I'll close this out by saying that although this unit took a serious whack, it appears to be functioning as though nothing at all has happened. It retains its excellent optical quality, all controls operate as previously and the only visible damage is scarring to the locking ring on the vertical turret and the button on top that counts rotations. That's dented. Brian has ordered me placements for both of those pieces and once they're here, the damage will be relegated to history. This was a heavy drop to a solid surface and landed directly on a turret, but the scope returns to zero, tracks and works just as it did before the mishap.

It's very well constructed and a tough piece of gear. as well as being an over-achiever. Would I have preferred a longer warranty? Yeah, but the scope itself is a quality piece and stouter than a Guiness.

 

[Lewis]

This has come to an end through unforeseen tragedy. I managed to drop the scope (don't ask, but I haven't killed the cat who was my little helper in the affair). The scope's ok and seems to be functioning just as well as it was before. There's no apparent mechanical or cosmetic damage apart from a tell tale ding on the turret's cap piece (the button that shows rotations of the elevation turret) and a more annoying (bigger) scar on the ring that you tun to get the turret cap off. These pieces appear to be field replaceable but have to come from Delta. It's a very fine scope and I'm sure I'll be happy with it but the accident has reduced my options to one...keep it. I'd say it's a pretty tough unit as the fall was heavy and undamped, landing on a solid oak floor. 

These things happen but why do they always seem to happen to me? One aspect that may be of interest to others will be to see how long it takes to get the replacement parts. I can use the scope as is but will be reminded of my clumsiness every time I look at it until the replacement bits get in.

The Impact is a tack driver to 25 yards....as far as I can stretch in my backyard. This mishap has been a little unsettling but only if viewed as a first world problem. Even with my annoyingly immediate incident. I've had the gun just two days and barely got started before I got the first mark on my gear. I can see that this hobby has the potential to be a real addiction but what a start!



Oh...this is what it looks like mounted up (from the good side)

I see we have more than a name in common. Love the Magnepans. I was an audio junkie from the late 70's through the 90's during the golden era. Unfortunately my hearing fell off and I can no longer enjoy the hobby as I once did. Even through hearing aids I can tell the current mass market stuff is garbage. Love seeing your setup.

 

[lewilbar]

Hi Lewis! What look like Maggies (mis-identification is completely understandable since they look like Magnapans) are "gobos", a trade/studio term for acoustic absorption panels. My room is treated for first reflections by them and they are passive devices. The speakers are the mahogany jobs. They are Revel Salon IIs. I was in pro audio (Harman was one of my vendors) for the better part of 40 years. I set up the system as I was retiring a few years ago while I was still able to get gear as an insider. One way or another, it seems I've been into pushing air around my whole life! 



I added this picture (off topic) for you which shows the rig as it is now. It changes in small details from time to time. Hobbies! It was designed to fit the room. Sound was my profession so I did what came naturally. I still have my ears but I'm an old man and they are not what they used to be. Since I was trained to hear differences in these things I still can but like most things, hearing is better when you're young. Then again, as a rule, we're not! 

 

[Peskådot671]

Hi Lewis! What look like Maggies (the mis-identification is completely understandable since they look exactly like Magnapans) are "gobos" (acoustic absorption panels). My room is treated for first reflections by those panels which are completely passive. The speakers are the mahogany jobs to the left in this image. They are Revel Salon IIs. I was in pro audio (Harman was one of my vendors) for the better part of 40 years. I set up the system before I retired a couple of years ago while I was still able to get gear from the factories I worked for. One way or another, it seems I've been into pushing air around my whole life! 

I've been pushing air around my whole life as well but it's kind of smelly.

It's good that you started off with a high end optic and it's nice to know it took that fall. Was it mounted on the gun? Not sure if I missed that part. I wonder if you made a compromise on a lesser optic if it would have held up. Sh!t happens right? Cosmetic dings are one thing but the internals and how they are put together and how they hold up is another. It's great that you got to experience the other optics for yourself and what worked for you. That Delta is a keeper even after the fall. At least you can't question it's durability because you experienced it yourself. 

 

[tibor]

Currently the Japan made Crimson Trace 3 and 5 series on sale at MidwayUSA are very hard to beat based on what you get for what they are selling for. They are selling for less than half price.

Ask Lewis if it's worrh 1/3x the Delta Stryker sells for when looking through them side by side at the same magnifucation levels.

If you dont mind 25 yard focus the Athlon Cronus Gen1 from Cameraland are hard to beat if you insist on spending just over $1000 and getting a really great deal for a $1699-$1799 scope that's also Japan made.

The 25 yard focus Japan Tract Toric is another winner in my book and worth paying retail for them IMHO. I only tend to push deals though...

Yep, He is absolutely correct. The Crimson trace 3 series at Midway for 499.00 is a steal. It is also made in Japan and has great turrets. It focuses down to 10 yards and is FFP for those who prefer it. They are currently out of stock. Hopefully, they will be back in stock before the sale ends. I like them so much I ended up with 6 of them!!

good post

 

[Lewis]

Hi Lewis! What look like Maggies (mis-identification is completely understandable since they look like Magnapans) are "gobos", a trade/studio term for acoustic absorption panels. My room is treated for first reflections by them and they are passive devices. The speakers are the mahogany jobs. They are Revel Salon IIs. I was in pro audio (Harman was one of my vendors) for the better part of 40 years. I set up the system as I was retiring a few years ago while I was still able to get gear as an insider. One way or another, it seems I've been into pushing air around my whole life! 



I added this picture (off topic) for you which shows the rig as it is now. It changes in small details from time to time. Hobbies! It was designed to fit the room. Sound was my profession so I did what came naturally. I still have my ears but I'm an old man and they are not what they used to be. Since I was trained to hear differences in these things I still can but like most things, hearing is better when you're young. Then again, as a rule, we're not! 

Outrageous setup.

I guessed at the Maggies as I didn't recognize any model in that size range. I thought maybe they were newer. I had a 4 panel setup. The vocals were the best I had heard at the time. They were a one trick pony but what they did they did very well. Voices and strings were their bread and butter. I paired them with a Velodyne 18" sub. Mid bass attack was the weakest point. I had a set of Kef 104's that were terrific in mid bass and punchiness but were nowhere near as clean and laid back. Closest I had to covering it all was a set of Infinity IRS Betas. Miss those days.

 

[lewilbar]

I've been pushing air around my whole life as well but it's kind of smelly.

It's good that you started off with a high end optic and it's nice to know it took that fall. Was it mounted on the gun? Not sure if I missed that part. I wonder if you made a compromise on a lesser optic if it would have held up. Sh!t happens right? Cosmetic dings are one thing but the internals and how they are put together and how they hold up is another. It's great that you got to experience the other optics for yourself and what worked for you. That Delta is a keeper even after the fall. At least you can't question it's durability because you experienced it yourself.

I was remounting the scope (fooling around actually....like an idiot!) so it was not subject to the weight of the gun. I was mortified though as I'd had it for just a couple of days but it was unharmed except that the lock ring for the vertical turret took the hit and is deformed on one edge but is still functional. I asked Brian (Edgun...he's distributing them) to order me a new part and so we will know how long it takes to get spares from Delta as a result. The scope itself is a tank and retains its functions and performance just as it did out of the box. I should mention that the "sub turret " that shoes rotations was also dinged and is on order as well. But it doesn't show any damage except for the lock ring and "rev counter" both of which are easily field replacable. I was horrified when it hit the floor, which it dented impressively. As a result, the whack was directed on a small point of the vertical turret and I feared the worst respecting alignment but virtually no shift or visible degradation has occurred. It's like it never happened. I have always liked good optics and this piece is the genuine article.

I'm old enough and was lucky enough to be able to enjoy a few nice things in my dotage. I'm grateful for that and given that's the case, I might as well buy the good stuff first and save the trouble.

Covid's been hell on working people and especially young working people but being retired we've actually spent a lot less since the pandemic hit. No restaurants, not going out for music, no travel, not much powder shooting and ammo is crazy enough to make you think twice about shooting it. I heard from the vendors I bought from that there are lots of people like me out there now. I'm not surprised.

 

[Odoyle]

WHO SERVICES DELTA STRYKERS WHEN YOU NEED WARRANTY? IS THE DEALER AUTHORIZED AND EDUCATED TO DO IN HOUSE REPAIRS OR DOES IT NEED TO BE MAILED OVERSEAS AND WAIT FOR TRANSIT TIME ROUND TRIP AND OF COURSE REPAIR TIME AND IF SO HOW LONG IS THE WAIT?

DO YOU GET INSTANT SERVICE LIKE THE TRIJICON (TWIN ONLY THING THIS TWIN GOT LIFETIME WARRANTY VS ONLY 10 YEARS) VERSION WITHIN A US BASED LONG STANDING COMPANY SUCH AS TRIJICON FOR DOMESTIC SERVICE?

 

[lewilbar]

Hi Lewis! What look like Maggies (mis-identification is completely understandable since they look like Magnapans) are "gobos", a trade/studio term for acoustic absorption panels. My room is treated for first reflections by them and they are passive devices. The speakers are the mahogany jobs. They are Revel Salon IIs. I was in pro audio (Harman was one of my vendors) for the better part of 40 years. I set up the system as I was retiring a few years ago while I was still able to get gear as an insider. One way or another, it seems I've been into pushing air around my whole life! 



I added this picture (off topic) for you which shows the rig as it is now. It changes in small details from time to time. Hobbies! It was designed to fit the room. Sound was my profession so I did what came naturally. I still have my ears but I'm an old man and they are not what they used to be. Since I was trained to hear differences in these things I still can but like most things, hearing is better when you're young. Then again, as a rule, we're not! 

Outrageous setup.

I guessed at the Maggies as I didn't recognize any model in that size range. I thought maybe they were newer. I had a 4 panel setup. The vocals were the best I had heard at the time. They were a one trick pony but what they did they did very well. Voices and strings were their bread and butter. I paired them with a Velodyne 18" sub. Mid bass attack was the weakest point. I had a set of Kef 104's that were terrific in mid bass and punchiness but were nowhere near as clean and laid back. Closest I had to covering it all was a set of Infinity IRS Betas. Miss those days.

I had KEF 104/3s too, friends of mine worked for KEF and made me an offer I couldn't;t refuse. With Kube! I was also the Acoustat (and Hafler rep for the Northwest in the early days so had a few electrostatic dipoles in my life but never any Maggies. But high end hifi wasn't our main business, more of a sideline. It just happens that the companies that make good home gear often make good pro gear too so I had a lot of access. Over the years I found I preferred well executed dynamic loudspeakers to most dipoles because of the compromises you mention although a good sub goes a long, long way. The Acoustats could be wonderfully sweet and present but it was very hard to align them for real bass. The subs couldn't keep up with the panels where they crossed over and vice versa. No matter how good you are at tuning and finding crossover points, the characteristics were so different (and harder to correct for back then) that a proper integration was very difficult even for pros and can't be done without a very good crossover.

 

[lewilbar]

WHO SERVICES DELTA STRYKERS WHEN YOU NEED WARRANTY? IS THE DEALER AUTHORIZED AND EDUCATED TO DO IN HOUSE REPAIRS OR DOES IT NEED TO BE MAILED OVERSEAS AND WAIT FOR TRANSIT TIME ROUND TRIP AND OF COURSE REPAIR TIME AND IF SO HOW LONG IS THE WAIT?

DO YOU GET INSTANT SERVICE LIKE THE TRIJICON (TWIN ONLY THING THIS TWIN GOT LIFETIME WARRANTY VS ONLY 10 YEARS) VERSION WITHIN A US BASED LONG STANDING COMPANY SUCH AS TRIJICON FOR DOMESTIC SERVICE?

You know the answers and I already mentioned in prior posts as we've been discussing this as we go but for the record, Edgun is the distributor and you have to send the thing to Poland for repairs if needed. We've been down this road and discussed it to death. If I were to do it again, I'd look hard at the Trijicon but that wasn't an option once I dropped the scope. It's ok though. I'm a big boy and I still like the scope a lot. I don't plan to drop it again but if I do, it'll probably take it. I can use it and even as it is, you can hold it in your hand and barely see what happened. Like I said, it's a tank. So's the Trijicon and, yes, while the Delta is less money, the Trijicon has a much better warranty and Triji can repair them here. It's consequential.

Hopefully the world is now a lot safer from the 'horrors 'of Polish branded Japanese scopes without full time distribution and now we are all better informed for it. I'd agree that Delta can never be a meaningful presence in the USA until they are able to handle warranty service in country with minimal inconvenience. That is not the case at this time. Maybe they don't care and are content to be tearing it up in Europe. I don't know but I still plan to get my use and pleasure from it and not let the warranty or the mishap be any more of a pain in the ass than they already have been. Others can learn from my experience and I hope they do. I'm lucky to be in a position that it's not all that important one way or another. But for sure, the Trijicon is a safer buy here. I hope this doesn't torment you but the difference between ten years and lifetime doesn't mean that much to me. Local service however does, so buyers should factor that heavily. I will be sure to let people know just how long getting parts and service takes. We already know it's not snappy or the parts would be on their way already.

Appreciate your knowledge and advice, bro. 

 

[lewilbar]

Lewilbar,

welcome to AGN!



There is a thread that compares powder burner (PB) scopes to airgun (AG) scopes:

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/choosing-an-airgun-scope-vs-powder-burner-scope-%f0%9f%a4%94-whats-the-difference/





And there are a couple of Scope Specs Tables for airgun suitable scopes, divided into SFP and FFP.

All have 10y side parallax, exposed turrets, and holdoff reticles. 



The table lists their typical prices, and other specs relevant to airgun shooting — depending on your shooting scenarios and personal preferences!





The Specs Tables make more sense when understanding the additional requirements that AG shooting demands of scopes as compared to PB as explained in the above post.



Happy scope shopping. This is a good time to be an airgunner! So much cool stuff coming out these last few years, performance hugely improved....!



Matthias



Attachment: Scope Specs Table 3-18x | 4-16x

View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For 4-14x 3-18x, 4-16x Magnification. 078. 2021-02.1613016311.pdf



Attachment: Scopes Specs Table 5-20x | 6-24x | 5-25x | 5-30x

View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For 6-20x 6-24x, 5-20x, 5-30x Magnification. 121. 2021-02.1613016343.pdf

I don't think I replied to this post but I want to thank you for adding it. I've learned a lot since Iintroduced myself here and there's a lot more to go, but it's great to have the input of experienced people to consider. I've been having more fun since I got into this than I have since Covid "graced" our shores.

 

[Odoyle]

Here's the thing I have a super expensive IOR Valdada past 10 year warranty that's got artifacts in the glass. WAS Absolutely perfect for 10 years. They must know after 10 years the glass goes to crap.

Age is not your friend. I was already told I need to send it to Germany for service since its out of warranty the US folks can't help me now and I have to pay for 100% out of pocket round trip shipping international and insurance plus pay them for refurbishment plus unknown wait time. So much for RIGHT AFTER 10 YEARS WARRANTY. I have old Japan scopes 15-20 years old that had (due to age) artifacts in the glass too several but not all some just turned yellow tint. Some were swapped out no questions for brand new modern superior ones under lifetime warranty not so lucky for the no longer supported brands though.

That's only one example of NOT having a lifetime warranty or no longer supported Lifetime Warranty optics like Nikon. Remember Aeon too? At least Barra is DIRT CHEAP enough you buy couple spares to just toss into the trash later Like Discovery and Vector and MTC among others not gonna list now. Watch out Discovery brand prices getting real high only for 3 year Warranty buy from Alibaba to be smart less than half price compared to buying here if you insist on no long term Warranty support anyway.

I woulda been screwed too had I kept my $3000 Swarvosky Spotter since they are trying to limit their lifetime warranty to only 5 years now kinda like how Nikon is doing to screw everyone over and no original dated proof of purchase receipt no Warranty now.

Smart UK based companies are not allowing secomd owner Liferime Warranty transfer such as Falcon MTC and HAWKE. 2bad4u next owner. I had a bud buy a second hand Optisan scope couldn't warranty since he wasn't original owner has to get seller send it in. There's black stuff in the glass in 2 of mine. I waited to speak up about Optisan brand till I goth warranty replacements and they too have black crap in the glass not as bad as the ones I sent though. I wont recommemd Optisan to even my worst enemy (HMMM well Maybe). Just LIKE Vortex eh send a POS back for warranty then get a BRAND NEW POS replacement.

One of my friends had a broken obsolete Japan Bushnell Tactical he paid $700 - $800 wholesale for that ended up developing artifacts in the glass due to age less than 10 years more like 6-7 years they sent him a $2300 Japan replacement after he refused to take a Chinese Bushnell Forge as a replacement. He sold it in EBay since it had a 70 yard minimum focus and is real happy with the Tract Toric I suggested after cashing in at Ebay with money to spare.

Hints for 10 year warranty or less (NOT LIFETIME WARRANTY) optics-

 

[Hearkens]

I returned a 20+ year old Elite 4000 series 6-24x42 to Bushnell that had developed an internal Fungus.

They immediately sent me a new Nitro which seemed fair given that I’d used the other scope for 20 years and I was able to sell it on EBay. I couldn’t live with the duplex reticle.

Bushnell has been good over the years

 

[Odoyle]

☝

At least Bushnell is in the USA.

Age is not your friend when it comes to optics. They (Brands listed above including Delta Optics) expect you to toss the scope straight into the trash after Warranty is over or if sold to the next guy that lets them off the hook no more warranty. Consumable goods-? Yes they ALL ARE. Even lifetime warranty ones all consumavle and the greedy companies set their limits though as noted.

Either THEY toss the Warrantied Lifetime returns into the trash under Lifetime Warranty replacement exchange or YOU toss them into the trash under NO LIFETIME WARRANTY then pay for a new one out of pocket.

Your choice. 

ALL of my my March and Kahles 10 year Warranty clocks all ticking I be daaaamn sure to sell them right b4 the 10 year mark are up.

Looking 4 replacement Lifetime Warranty scopes to replace them with now - FOR REAL-!

 

[Lewis]

The biggest downside to the Trijicon is the reticle. If you do not use hold under it is fine. I may still get one or 2 for guns that I don't need the hold under.