Daystate Alpha Safari

[AZGunner]

I purchased an Alpha Wolf Safari HP in .177.
The manual recommends 10.3gn Sovereign pellets up to 30ft pounds.Youd think that as this is the recommended pellet Daystate would have included that weight pellet as an option in the factory settings on the rifle. Instead my rifle only lists 13.4 and 15.89.
It’s a pain to use the custom settings as you have to create and save a setting before it can be tested and once saved it cannot be edited to make adjustments to velocity etc.

anyone else have an Alpha Wolf HP in .177 and has that weight listed in the factory settings?

 

[Ranchibi]

Call AoA's Service Department, they should be able to answer all your questions, they are awesome to deal with.

 

[AZGunner]

Call AoA's Service Department, they should be able to answer all your questions, they are awesome to deal with.

I took it in as I’m local to AOA. They told me that they have nothing to do with what Daystate programs into their rifles and they have no way to modify the software. I’m just curious if other people did have it in their factory settings.
I did email Daystate several times over the couple weeks but get no reply.

 

[Ranchibi]

I took it in as I’m local to AOA. They told me that they have nothing to do with what Daystate programs into their rifles and they have no way to modify the software. I’m just curious if other people did have it in their factory settings.
I did email Daystate several times over the couple weeks but get no reply.

That's not good. I hope there is a way to program it to your tune and someone that knows will chime in.

 

[ctshooter]

I took it in as I’m local to AOA. They told me that they have nothing to do with what Daystate programs into their rifles and they have no way to modify the software. I’m just curious if other people did have it in their factory settings.
I did email Daystate several times over the couple weeks but get no reply.

I recall AoA adding to the Factory Tables with some of their own when the platform was newer. Maybe it's not something they want to be bothered with.

I had that same 177 HP config as you. I recall wondering where the program for a 10.3gr in a 23" barrel was. I also scratched my head with a 15.89gr weight as that is a .22 caliber pellet weight, unless the UK has some other 177 pellet I'm not aware of. I would expect that to have been for a 16.2gr Beast.

You can go into the 17" barrel sub-menu and you will find a 10.3gr pellet there. I think I used that one for a bit. Ultimately I got the USB programmer which allows you to make on the fly changes to the user programs and test them and manipulate them a lot more than you can from the onboard display. It's worth the $150.

 

[AZGunner]

I recall AoA adding to the Factory Tables with some of their own when the platform was newer. Maybe it's not something they want to be bothered with.

I had that same 177 HP config as you. I recall wondering where the program for a 10.3gr in a 23" barrel was. I also scratched my head with a 15.89gr weight as that is a .22 caliber pellet weight, unless the UK has some other 177 pellet I'm not aware of. I would expect that to have been for a 16.2gr Beast.

You can go into the 17" barrel sub-menu and you will find a 10.3gr pellet there. I think I used that one for a bit. Ultimately I got the USB programmer which allows you to make on the fly changes to the user programs and test them and manipulate them a lot more than you can from the onboard display. It's worth the $150.

it makes no sense that Daystate would create an interface that doesn’t allow you to edit a saved preset. This is something that could easily fixed by a software update but then they might not sell as many USB programmers.
There is a 15.89 pellet in Daystates branded pellets But it appears they are not sold in the US.

 

[Arzrover]

it makes no sense that Daystate would create an interface that doesn’t allow you to edit a saved preset. This is something that could easily fixed by a software update but then they might not sell as many USB programmers.
There is a 15.89 pellet in Daystates branded pellets.

While I agree about having more pellet options in Factory mode, the editing of the presets has been covered MANY times... it's just not a menu item...

You make your changes then save as the same Set. It will be lighted in red to show that it's already in use, but allows saving over it...

 

[AZGunner]

While I agree about having more pellet options in Factory mode, the editing of the presets has been covered MANY times... it's just not a menu item...

You make your changes then save as the same Set. It will be lighted in red to show that it's already in use, but allows saving over it...

Strange that AOA didnt relay that info to me when I took the rifle into them. In fact the tech created a custom preset for the 10.34 pellet and saved it but noted that to change any parameters such as velocity I would have to create a new preset with a different name and save it.

 

[AZGunner]

So I got an email from AOA today. Daystate apparently forwards the emails from US customers to AOA. of course they don’t bother telling the customers that.
AOAs response was that Daystate doesn’t include the 10.3 grain pellet in the factory programming for the 23” barrel because it doesn’t shoot as well as the other 2 options. ??
it is included in the 17” barrel options. Their solution is to buy a 17” barrel or the USB programming kit that allows the custom presets to be edited Via a laptop.

 

[TMH]

...AOAs response was that Daystate doesn’t include the 10.3 grain pellet in the factory programming for the 23” barrel because it doesn’t shoot as well as the other 2 options. ??
...Their solution is to buy a 17” barrel or the USB programming kit that allows the custom presets to be edited Via a laptop.

O.K., so we now have a better understanding why Daystate doesn't include the 10.3 gr pellet program in their HP version, longer barrelled gun. Would have been nicer on AoA's part if they had let you know that when you last visited their shop.

So it seems to me like option #1, before you go the route of getting the programming kit or buy and install a shorter barrel (creating a standard gun instead of an HP) would be to shoot one of the 2 known better pellets for your existing platform? Any reason you only want to shoot 10.3's?

I've kind of never understood high power .177 guns. Maybe because I'm a standard, diabolo pellet guy. Maybe HP guns for slugs, heavy slugs or heavy pellets - that makes more sense. But those are not what I shoot, hence my lack of understanding their need.

It seems like almost every USED gun I purchase has been all maxxed out for power and (to my mind) shoots horribly. Maybe some folks need that power for their application but I would bet that most (USA Americans) equate more power in airguns to just being 'better', like we have for so long in vehicles, powder-burning firearms, etc. Most times for my minimalistic needs (shooting almost exclusively inside of 50-65 yards, shooting 99+% pellets and not 'hunting' anything bigger than a ground squirrel), I find myself choosing standard power airguns over HP models. Get that pellet flying at 860-880 fps (generally) and the gun is just a pleasure to shoot and normally very accurate & repeatable.

 

[AZGunner]

O.K., so we now have a better understanding why Daystate doesn't include the 10.3 gr pellet program in their HP version, longer barrelled gun. Would have been nicer on AoA's part if they had let you know that when you last visited their shop.

So it seems to me like option #1, before you go the route of getting the programming kit or buy and install a shorter barrel (creating a standard gun instead of an HP) would be to shoot one of the 2 known better pellets for your existing platform? Any reason you only want to shoot 10.3's?

I've kind of never understood high power .177 guns. Maybe because I'm a standard, diabolo pellet guy. Maybe HP guns for slugs, heavy slugs or heavy pellets - that makes more sense. But those are not what I shoot, hence my lack of understanding their need.

It seems like almost every USED gun I purchase has been all maxxed out for power and (to my mind) shoots horribly. Maybe some folks need that power for their application but I would bet that most (USA Americans) equate more power in airguns to just being 'better', like we have for so long in vehicles, powder-burning firearms, etc. Most times for my minimalistic needs (shooting almost exclusively inside of 50-65 yards, shooting 99+% pellets and not 'hunting' anything bigger than a ground squirrel), I find myself choosing standard power airguns over HP models. Get that pellet flying at 860-880 fps (generally) and the gun is just a pleasure to shoot and normally very accurate & repeatable.

I bought the Alpha Wolf Safari as I wanted to use it in both HFT as well as 25 and 50 yard bench rest matches. The 23“ HP version allows me to use heavier pellets with higher velocity for less wind deflection in Bench rest as well as using a lighter pellets for HFT which must stay under 19ft pounds.
The factory setting in the 13.42 grain pellets only allows for a minimum velocity of 850 fps which is about 23ft pounds so too much for HFT.
The other strange thing is that Daystate only offers 2 pellets Weights in the factory setting, 13.42 and 15.89. The only 15.89gn .177 pellet that I can find is the Daystate Sovereign Emperor pellet which apparently isn’t sold in the US. That being the case they should have substituted the 16.2gn (JSB Beast) which is widely available In the rifles shipped to the US.

 

[TMH]

Yes, that definitely would have made more sense for the US market.

I certainly do hope that you will be able to achieve both of your main needs with your new gun!

 

[candiru]

You can drop the reg presure for lower speed and FTP.

 

[AZGunner]

Yes, that definitely would have made more sense for the US market.

I certainly do hope that you will be able to achieve both of your main needs with your new gun!

i don’t know why Daystate thinks that 10.3 gr pellets don’t shoot as well in 23” barrels. I know lots of people who use Red Wolfs with a 23” barrel in field target using that pellet. Also if they don’t shoot well in that Rifle why would Daystate recommend that weight pellet in the owners manual (up to 30ft pounds).

 

[AZGunner]

You can drop the reg presure for lower speed and FTP.

I just didn’t understand Daystates reasoning that they would in the rifles manual recommend using 10.3gr pellets (up to 30ft pounds) then not put that pellet in the factory settings?

 

[Arzrover]

i don’t know why Daystate thinks that 10.3 gr pellets don’t shoot as well in 23” barrels. I know lots of people who use Red Wolfs with a 23” barrel in field target using that pellet. Also if they don’t shoot well in that Rifle why would Daystate recommend that weight pellet in the owners manual (up to 30ft pounds).

Ok... there's a lot of misinformation in this thread but I'm not going to respond to it all. A couple of things though...
Not everyone at AoA are experts on every airgun they sell... the DW/AW is likely one of the least understood and not just at AoA.
Daystate does not have a lot of pellet weights in the tables because no one has entered the data and any other answer is pretty much bs. I was asked to fill in some of the tables at one point but it's time consuming and I already had plenty on my to do list. It's not difficult though.
The 23" barrels shoot QUITE well with all WEIGHTS but not necessarily all brands. Mine (177) are competitive with every weight of JSB within the preferred velocity range as well as QYS and Norma... the H&N offerings are a bit more scattered in results and I don't have a lot on hand to test either. I don't have any other brands on hand though. Not all barrels off the assembly line are equal though. Some may require some effort to be competitive (and this is NOT a DW/AW thing) I have noticed that the standard rifled barrels (17") are more forgiving in velocity and pellet ranges but the 23" can shoot well fast or slow... just might require some tuning experimentation to get there...
I've not had any problems getting below 20 ft lb but it might require some hardware change to get down to 12..
Lastly... there are a LOT of truly informative threads here on AGN if you really want to know more about your rifle...
Bob

 

[AZGunner]

Ok... there's a lot of misinformation in this thread but I'm not going to respond to it all. A couple of things though...
Not everyone at AoA are experts on every airgun they sell... the DW/AW is likely one of the least understood and not just at AoA.
Daystate does not have a lot of pellet weights in the tables because no one has entered the data and any other answer is pretty much bs. I was asked to fill in some of the tables at one point but it's time consuming and I already had plenty on my to do list. It's not difficult though.
The 23" barrels shoot QUITE well with all WEIGHTS but not necessarily all brands. Mine (177) are competitive with every weight of JSB within the preferred velocity range as well as QYS and Norma... the H&N offerings are a bit more scattered in results and I don't have a lot on hand to test either. I don't have any other brands on hand though. Not all barrels off the assembly line are equal though. Some may require some effort to be competitive (and this is NOT a DW/AW thing) I have noticed that the standard rifled barrels (17") are more forgiving in velocity and pellet ranges but the 23" can shoot well fast or slow... just might require some tuning experimentation to get there...
I've not had any problems getting below 20 ft lb but it might require some hardware change to get down to 12..
Lastly... there are a LOT of truly informative threads here on AGN if you really want to know more about your rifle...
Bob

I’m just going on what I was told. I wrote to Daystate multiple times with absolutely no response from them. Finally I got an email from AOA explaining that all emails to Daystate from US customers are forwarded to them As they are Daystates service center in the US.
I had already asked AOA about the missing factory settings for the 10.3 as I live local to them. I was told that they have nothing to do with why that pellet weight wasn’t included in the Factory settings after being recommended in the owners manual and that is a manufacturer question which is why I wrote to Daystate.
The 13.42 factory setting works great and is my chosen weight for 25 and 50 yard benchrest. The 15.89 option is useless as there is no .177 pellet in that weight being sold in the US as far as I can tell. That leaves me with only one usable factory setting in an almost $4k rifle.
whats Irritating is that Daystate recommends the 10.3gn pellet up to 30 ft pounds in the rifles owner manual and the 23” barrel is the only configuration capable of 30ft pounds in .177 in this rifle Yet they don’t, for whatever reason, include that weight in the factory settings.
While I had the rifle into AOA on an unrelated issue (which they fixed under warranty) I asked them about the missing setting. The repair tech talked to their “expert” who then put a custom setting for that weight pellet in the rifle for me. When I asked the tech about how I change parameters within that setting as it would produce about 20 ft pounds (too much for FT) I was told that you cannot edit a custom preset and have to create a new one every time you change something.

 

[Arzrover]

I understand your frustration , for sure... I DO know how they respond, even from the Factory for things they don't know or want to get deep into or even admit isn't right.

I go back to : there is a LOT of good info in this forum for someone that will make the effort to find...
For instance : the 15.89 setting you mention several times is ONLY A STARTING POINT... so whether it's 16.2 or 15.89 is irrelevant ... it's close enough for the cpu to measure and make corrections on subsequent shots. Whether you select a 22/14.3 or a 177/10.3... it doesn't care... it's only a starting point and if the first shot is less than 100 fps from desired, it'll make corrections ...

@engfred has written some very good info on the operation of the cpu and measuring system and how to create new table entries, etc.

I also have a lot of threads regarding the DW and how it works and it's use. I was tasked with testing the initial product and most iterations of it and have one of the first 2 that came off the production line in 2019... a lot of the potential has never been utilized. Part of this is the original software designer is deceased, and part of it is the next new thing being developed .

I know none of this really matters as you want it to work as intended and it DOES, but not how you expect... the misinformation being a contributor to your frustration.

Also, a 10.3 @ 30 ft lbs is SMOKIN... I believe the 30 ft lb in 177 is for HEAVY pellets like the 16.2s ...
Bob

 

[Trucker3573]

You are looking at this too critically. Pick the pre programmed weight closest to the weight pellet you are using. It will work if your reg pressure is properly adjusted. The weight is just a starting point for the software. It will still look for the correct velocity you have programmed even if the true projectile weight is slightly different. It will do its thing. In my experience what the daystate software recommends for reg pressure is much higher than needed.

 

[AZGunner]

You are looking at this too critically. Pick the pre programmed weight closest to the weight pellet you are using. It will work if your reg pressure is properly adjusted. The weight is just a starting point for the software. It will still look for the correct velocity you have programmed even if the true projectile weight is slightly different. It will do its thing. In my experience what the daystate software recommends for reg pressure is much higher than needed.

I noticed that Daystate seems to recommend higher than necessary reg pressures as the factory settings for 13.42gn at 860fps recommends 180bar reg pressure.
If I’m wanting to use the 10.3gn pellets I would have to use the 13.42 gn factory setting which is almost a 30% difference. That’s more than a slightly higher weight.
Around 10.3 grains is one of the most commonly used pellet weights in .177 and available in many different brands.
Daystate includes that weight option in the factory settings in the 17“ barrel but not the 23”.