Am I missing something? Slug accuracy = terrible!

[SniperX]

I finally jumped on the slug bandwagon and boy did I spend a lot of money for some terrible accuracy!

Can you validate if you're having the same experience? Or if I'm missing something, I'm happy to hear any suggestions.

Summary: After some pretty extensive testing, the best slug groups are 200% larger than my average pellet groups.
My benchmark target is at 75y. I can consistently get 1" groups at that distance with various pellets. On good days, 1/2" groups are common.
The very best slug performance I've been able to eek out is with the .22 .217 25g JSB Knockouts. Those groups are inconsistent and average 1.5-2".
The slugs that don't perform so well produce outright hysterical groups. Like 5" at 75y!

I understand slugs like higher velocities so I've focused most of my testing in the velocity ranges between 950-1050fps.
I've tried lubed and dry. I also tried several combinations of reg pressure, hammer spring tension, and valve travel limit on the FX rifles.

My objective: The local benchrest match has 3 classes (low power pellet, high power pellet, and high power slug). I'd like to find a slug setup to allow me to shoot the slug class competitively.

I dont think finding a reasonably accurate slug combo should be this hard (or this expensive). I'm on the ragged edge of giving up on this whole slug thing.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Slugs I bought:
.30 50g Knockouts
.22 25g .216 cal Knockouts
.22 25g .217 cal Knockouts
.22 30g .217 cal HN
.22 23g .218 cal HN
.22 FX hybrids
.22 25g .217 ZAN
.22 30g .217 ZAN
.22 -> A couple varieties of Neilsen slugs

Rifles I tried:
FX Impact 22 (smooth twist, superior liner, superior heavy liner)
FX Impact 30 (smooth twist, superior liner, superior heavy liner)
Taipan Mutant 22 (CZ barrel)

Velocities tried:
850-1050fps

 

[Gerry52]

And there's the "slug rabbit hole" that's been discussed here so many times!

 

[cahil_2]

I have found on my impact that the slug A liner is best. .217 25 grain knockouts at 930.

 

[Centercut]

Welcome to reality, and not AGN fantasy... It IS possible, but most of the time, its not easy...
Also you want to shoot slugs with a BC higher than 0.10 (or close), and not the light ones. Might as well shoot high BC pellets if you're only going to shoot something like the NSA 20.2 or FX Hybrids with a BC only slightly higher than the .25 JSB King Heavy.

 

[SniperX]

I have found on my impact that the slug A liner is best. .217 25 grain knockouts at 930.

Thanks for the feedback. What kind of groups are you averaging? Group size + distance.

Thanks

 

[Kgphotos]

It takes lots of patience and careful, thoughtful tuning. It is really worth the effort though in my opinion. I think that at 75 yards you are barely at that range we’re slugs are slowly beginning to over take pellets for precision level. You may find that most pellets will out perform most slugs at 75 yards and under. However, add wind into the scene and you will likely find the reverse. Slugs are great in the wind. Be sure to try NSA slugs in .22 caliber. My Impact MK2 and my Crown MK2 both do very very well with the .218” 24.8 grain NSA slugs. Both guns love that slug at about 945-955 fps. Here is a post I made a couple years back about my Impact and the NSA slug.
https://www.airgunnation.com/thread...ng-tuning-and-lots-of-photos-to-share.669295/

Kenny

 

[TheCarFather]

I have also tried MANY slugs in both 22 and 25 caliber through my Maverick. I haven't tested any "heavy" slugs since I don't have a superior heavy liner. I've been working with the 25 caliber lately and keeping weight under 34gr. I haven't found a slug yet that can keep up with the groups I get from 34gr mkII pellets. I've also tried many different reg pressures, hammer spring settings, and swapped hammer weights.

I really enjoy the tinkering and testing so I have fun testing the slugs, but the expense is really starting to add up. Every time I find myself saying I'm done messing with slugs I end up trying a different brand or weight. I only have 600mm barrels and have found that the slugs shoot best at slower speeds than the 700mm guys shoot them. I've been getting the best results in the 940-980fps range. Still faster than my preferred pellet speeds of 920fps max.

Another "problem" with slugs for me is I find I need to clean my barrel more often. I assume it's from the higher velocities.

 

[Kgphotos]

I believe that the reason slug barrels have to be cleaned more often is that slugs have much more bearing surface than pellets. Therefore they leave more lead deposits on their journey down the liner.
Kenny

 

[Vetmx]

There is only partial truth about slugs liking higher velocities. There is way more to it than just that. There are factors in some situations that it’s true, but with other combo’s not. But that’s the way it is with everything slug related. Guys only take the partial truth and run with it. Then go broke. Another thing about them is, and I’m speaking for myself and probably others maybe in this topic. Once we figure things out, because of what we went through, we don’t talk or brag about it. I will give tips or sometimes nudge a guy in a direction, but I almost have to know him personally. Yes, something happens to some of us down in that rabbit hole that guys speak of. So like I said, Joe YouTube show off is doing something with slugs that impresses you. And let’s assume that there isn’t more in his editing trash can than what is actually seen. Let’s say he did find slug magic. I promise you, even though he told you some things, he did not tell you everything.

 

[douger]

love pellets lol tried few slugs and like vetmx said more to it and thats way it is

 

[woogie_man]

Not a lot of slugs like to be shot faster. I have found in a few of my rifles that they will shoot slugs better at slower velocities. You are typically able to shoot them faster, and some will do that with great accuracy. Just because you CAN shoot them faster, doesn't mean you should.

 

[SniperX]

Thanks for chiming in.

For now, I'm going to put my dreams on hold until the ammo and barrel companies get things a little more dialed in.

As many of you pointed out, I think theres a lot of "movie magic" on YouTube which definitely contributes to some warped expectations.
I suspect my experience would probably invert if I was shooting out past 100y, but currently, my use case is benchrest shooting at 60, 80, 90, and 100y.

Please keep the replies coming though. Im interested to understand what your experience has been.

Thanks!

 

[N2 Shooter]

I finally jumped on the slug bandwagon and boy did I spend a lot of money for some terrible accuracy!

Can you validate if you're having the same experience? Or if I'm missing something, I'm happy to hear any suggestions.

Summary: After some pretty extensive testing, the best slug groups are 200% larger than my average pellet groups.
My benchmark target is at 75y. I can consistently get 1" groups at that distance with various pellets. On good days, 1/2" groups are common.
The very best slug performance I've been able to eek out is with the .22 .217 25g JSB Knockouts. Those groups are inconsistent and average 1.5-2".
The slugs that don't perform so well produce outright hysterical groups. Like 5" at 75y!

I understand slugs like higher velocities so I've focused most of my testing in the velocity ranges between 950-1050fps.
I've tried lubed and dry. I also tried several combinations of reg pressure, hammer spring tension, and valve travel limit on the FX rifles.

My objective: The local benchrest match has 3 classes (low power pellet, high power pellet, and high power slug). I'd like to find a slug setup to allow me to shoot the slug class competitively.

I dont think finding a reasonably accurate slug combo should be this hard (or this expensive). I'm on the ragged edge of giving up on this whole slug thing.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Slugs I bought:
.30 50g Knockouts
.22 25g .216 cal Knockouts
.22 25g .217 cal Knockouts
.22 30g .217 cal HN
.22 23g .218 cal HN
.22 FX hybrids
.22 25g .217 ZAN
.22 30g .217 ZAN
.22 -> A couple varieties of Neilsen slugs

Rifles I tried:
FX Impact 22 (smooth twist, superior liner, superior heavy liner)
FX Impact 30 (smooth twist, superior liner, superior heavy liner)
Taipan Mutant 22 (CZ barrel)

Velocities tried:
850-1050fps

If you think you are going to get the same accuracy as pellets, you probably won't. But I have been able to get excellent results using the FX Hybrid Slugs in my Maverick VP shooting them at 930 fps, with the Superior X Liner the gun shipped with. My groups are slightly larger than MOA, but I'm also not that great of a shot. Here is a photo of a 50 yard group of Hybrid Slugs:

Might as well shoot high BC pellets if you're only going to shoot something like the NSA 20.2 or FX Hybrids with a BC only slightly higher than the .25 JSB King Heavy.

If all you want to do is punch paper, then high BC pellets are definitely the way to go. But if you want ammo with excellent expansion on impact, the lighter Hybrid Slugs are worth a look. Those high BC pellets look like they've never been shot in the first place after zipping through prey. Here is the expansion I get after a full passthrough at 66 yards on groundhogs with the FX Hybrid Slugs at 930 fps.

 

[BackStop]

Unless you really NEED to extend your range past feasible pellet ranges, then leave slugs alone. Especially in the lower calibers (.177/.22).

All you are going to get if you do try is a lot of less than pellet performance and spend a lot of $$$. JMHO.

However the marketers and paid promoters will say different... that's why they are called Sh*lls.

 

[Vetmx]

Getting them to match the accuracy of a pellet is the first hurdle at let’s say 50 yards. You do it. Then your next hurdle is matching pellets in the 80-100 range. Let’s say you do it next Tuesday and your happy. Post a bunch of pics and brag. The next hurdle is Wednesday through Monday. Will your gun match the consistency of a pellet. This is generally where the happy train goes off the tracks. With some guns more than others, just keeping them, we’ll call it harmonically happy is a chore. Unfortunately a lot of guys who are chasing slug bliss chose that gun. Once you spend a bazillion dollars and hours, you learn things and can generally quickly recognize things that will make you proceed or change direction. The other approach is to buy Sherman tank airguns and hope one of them has a slug friendly leade. If you’re fortunate enough to find something it likes, life can be more simple. Yes you don’t have all those wonderful tuning and modular capabilities but you have a gun that is consistent. Now you have to pray the guy you’re getting your magic slug from keeps his process consistent. But insuring that and the consistency of your projectile is another topic.

 

[Vetmx]

I have a gut feeling about something else in slug land. We all see Long Range Larry’s, Prairie Dog Phil and Pigeon Popping Pete’s posts and groups. Let’s say collectively there are 200 self proclaimed slug guys on this forum. If all 200 of us sent our guns to let’s say Centercut for him to evaluate their accuracy, I’m guessing maybe 10 guns would impress him. So with all of our guns being really good pellet shooters, if the truth came out that you really only have a 1 in 10 chance or worse of having an airgun that shoots almost like a rim fire, how many guys would still dump a ton of money into trying it. Marketing makes it looks easy so apparently even though we all claim to be smarter than that, they know what buttons to push to make guys gullible.

 

[silvershooter589]

I've been shooting NSA 61.5 grain .303 slugs in my AEA Challenger Pro for the last few days and the accuracy is incredible.

My wife was able to get a sub 1" group (7 shots) at 75 yards yesterday only her second time shooting the gun, and that was the only group she shot. She is a novice shooter and I'm not exactly a pro either.

I've been close to getting "perfect" groups where it's basically same hole but there always seems to be one or two in the group that hits a half inch to the side of the rest.

None of my other guns really shoot slugs well, although the Beeman is surprisingly respectable with H&N light slugs, so it probably comes down to the gun.

 

[JungleShooter]

Frank,

I really appreciate your brutal honesty. You call things for what you see them — and for what they most likely are:

If airgunning in general is associated with sliding down a rabbit hole —
you make venturing into slug shooting sound like falling out of a low flying helicopter... —
only 1 in 10 will succesfully fall and survive, i.e., they will shoot slugs with some sense of pellet-like precision.


Now the question I have to ask myself is this: What do I tell the pilot...?!? Because I'm already onboard the slug-copter. Will I safely land and get off — or will I risk the jump...?

Matthias

 

[Centercut]

Let me tell you how I set up slugs. I usually find a common speed for slugs, let’s say about 925- 950fps. Yeah, could be higher or lower, but that’s middle ground.
Then I get a whole butt load of slugs, different brands and weights. I shoot them at 50 yards. If you can’t keep five shots inside a dime, or at worst a penny at 50 yards, you have no business going further. It’s pointless. Accuracy doesn’t increase with Distance. Then I take the ones that passed the 50 Y test and go to 100 yards. If I can keep them inside the 8 ring of an EBR target they are good enough for tuning. Now the hard work begins. At 100Y you try different speeds, say from 880 fps to 1000 fps (if you can get that high, not really essential). So say you try every 20 fps from 880 to 980 fps. Ten shot groups if they are initially looking good. Find that speed, or they might be good at a large band of speeds like 920 to 960. Your most accurate 100Y slug at the speed it’s most accurate is where you settle. Now go out and buy a butt load of those slugs since the manufacturer will surely change something in the next six months and you’ll be SOL.

 

[JungleShooter]

Let me tell you how I set up slugs. I usually find a common speed for slugs, let’s say about 925- 950fps. Yeah, could be higher or lower, but that’s middle ground.
Then I get a whole butt load of slugs, different brands and weights. I shoot them at 50 yards. If you can’t keep five shots inside a dime, or at worst a penny at 50 yards, you have no business going further. It’s pointless. Accuracy doesn’t increase with Distance. Then I take the ones that passed the 50 Y test and go to 100 yards. If I can keep them inside the 8 ring of an EBR target they are good enough for tuning. Now the hard work begins. At 100Y you try different speeds, say from 880 fps to 1000 fps (if you can get that high, not really essential). So say you try every 20 fps from 880 to 980 fps. Ten shot groups if they are initially looking good. Find that speed, or they might be good at a large band of speeds like 920 to 960. Your most accurate 100Y slug at the speed it’s most accurate is where you settle. Now go out and buy a butt load of those slugs since the manufacturer will surely change something in the next six months and you’ll be SOL.

Thank you, Mike!