Am I missing something? Slug accuracy = terrible!

[mercado]

I could understand how you feel since..you got the best .. and is simply not doing what you expect.. try to do groups closer..like Centercut mentioned if you can't put them in a dime at 50 .. try other slug..if it holds perfectly then I would consider a way to get the barrel stiff..because then is more like a harmonic problem..another thing to consider is contrary a the pure lies that are told .. those barrel are not a mirror image of each other.. so yours by a small margin would not work as expected with slugs.. uragan at least U1 worked flawless for me.i only use them to shoot slugs..nothing else all 4 calibers.

 

[Vetmx]

Matthias, it all depends on your standards. My standard is if a slug won’t outperform a pellet at EVERY distance, your wasting your time. Just shoot a pellet and you’ll never feel like chewing nails. Shooting an airgun is hard enough without having to make windage and elevation adjustments for something that’s kinda accurate and kinda consistent. That’s why I said what I said in post #16. We don’t know what everyone’s standards are so a good shooting gun to one guy might be laughable to another guy. I’m with Centercut when it comes to my 50 yard groups. They have to be under a dime or less before I move out any further. When I move to 75 the tweaking begins again and sometimes it ends right there and it’s back to 30 yards. I spend days or a week at a certain distance before I move out. If the gun isn’t spot on at 50 every time I grab the gun it will certainly only be worse at 80-100. When I got done with a high hopes build recently, I stalled out at 75 yards. Not because the gun wasn’t accurate or consistent. I was gunshy. Too chicken to push to 100 and the work that may follow. Just burnt out I guess. One night Bigragu kept egging me on so I just said F it and went for it. It was good but I thought there still might be little left to squeeze out of it. I guess he lit a fire under me and got me motivated and I got it to where I was covering my groups, all groups with a quarter. When I shoot at whatever distance, I shoot 5 groups. I measure them all then average them out. Just because a gun shoots 2 out of 5 groups at just under an inch does not make it a MOA gun. A cherry picked MOA gun yes. The true average over a weeks time tells you what kind of gun you really have. Most, because of fliers, don’t have as accurate of a gun as they depict.

 

[sonnysan]

You're actually missing quite a bit. I see it in two camps:

Marketing: You've spent a boatload on airguns, so you are on the right track there from the industry perspective. Unfortunately, reality is very different than the UA videos you see on youtube. They want you to believe:

I didn't see that you bought a NightForce scope, FX rings, and Javelin slugs to complete the perfect setup. So you are frowned on there.

As for fundamentals, there are other areas of improvement:

Pick a FPE and stick with it. Why introduce another variable to only frustrate you to no end?

Let's say 50FPE as a start. From my experience 25gr. - 32gr. work well in this power range.

You will also need to slug the barrel:

How to Slug an Airgun Barrel

This process is designed to educate the user to minimize wasting money on slugs where the probability of randomly purchasing slugs that shoot inaccura...

airgunwarriors.com

The key is the groove diameter and the twist rate. Believe you already have the 1:17 - 1:18 twist rate taken care of. AVS mentions this, but doesn't elaborate on the twist rate.

AVS Airgun slugs and Pellets & tuning tips

AVS Airgun slugs and Pellets are handmade in the USA. We are a custom air gun slug / pellet maker. Swaged, not cast. We offer a large selection of weights and calibers and bases. We can make any weight size to fit your airgun barrel.

avsslugs.com

Now let's go through your selections for .22:

.22 25g .216 cal Knockouts - probably too small
.22 25g .217 cal Knockouts - slug the barrel
.22 30g .217 cal HN - slug the barrel
.22 23g .218 cal HN - too light
.22 FX hybrids - too light
.22 25g .217 ZAN - slug the barrel
.22 30g .217 ZAN - slug the barrel
.22 -> A couple varieties of Neilsen slugs
- need every variety between 25gr. - 31gr.

You are missing the 27gr & 28gr. variety from H&N and ZAN

In a perfect world for fundamentals, I would of first tried NSA 25gr - 31gr. For marketing: Javelins.

Shoot pellets and slugs every 10 - 15 yards. If the slugs do not group at say, 20 yards, better than pellets, then they are dropped from the test.

Keep moving further and further away until you find a slug at the distance you want to be your zero.

Shoot one weight above and one below the slug winner to be sure.

I try the following brand of slugs in this order .177 - .30:

1. NSA
2. H&N
3. ZAN

You'll be able to group the above with a 99% success rate with PCPs (Except Seneca or Sam Yang guns 1:24 twist rate). I've grouped 16FPE - 200FPE guns with slugs no issues. You just need to spend a lot of time going through the process.

 

[Franklink]

I finally jumped on the slug bandwagon and boy did I spend a lot of money for some terrible accuracy!

Can you validate if you're having the same experience?

Yep, similar experience.

Lost exact count but seems like it was around 15 barrels. And all good stuff too, mostly LW but even some of the old Career barrels machined to fit modern PCPs.

I eventually got a Career barrel to shoot slugs pretty dang good. Also reviewed a .22 Red Wolf barrel that would should the 20.3 grain NSAs pretty good. Had a couple .177 LW barrels that would shoot 12.5 grain NSAs okay. The unchoked LW barrel on my Vet Long will do pretty good with the 20.3 and 17.5gr NSA also, as well as some of the Griffin slugs (seems like the 23gr griffins). Anyway, even the best shooting barrel/slugs I've come across didn't outshoot a good batch of the .22 Monster RDs. Even the .20/15.89 pellets from JSB have shot better than every slug I've tried, and that's even stretching them out to 145 yards.

My current stance on slugs? If I get a new barrel or gun I'll try em, but I'm not investing much time or money in them anymore. One 10 shot test group with a slug is typically all I need to move on these days.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I started down the slug rabbit hole a couple months ago in 25 cal. Went through more money than I should've and never found one that would really out perform the rifle with pellets. My rifle is also choked so that's a big issue. I started to try slugs in 22 and was having same results so I immediately came to my senses and stopped trying to fix what wasn't broke. I hit my intended target with pellets and they won't be any deader if they got hit by a slug.

 

[Centercut]

Yep, similar experience.

Lost exact count but seems like it was around 15 barrels. And all good stuff too, mostly LW but even some of the old Career barrels machined to fit modern PCPs.

I eventually got a Career barrel to shoot slugs pretty dang good. Also reviewed a .22 Red Wolf barrel that would should the 20.3 grain NSAs pretty good. Had a couple .177 LW barrels that would shoot 12.5 grain NSAs okay. The unchoked LW barrel on my Vet Long will do pretty good with the 20.3 and 17.5gr NSA also, as well as some of the Griffin slugs (seems like the 23gr griffins). Anyway, even the best shooting barrel/slugs I've come across didn't outshoot a good batch of the .22 Monster RDs. Even the .20/15.89 pellets from JSB have shot better than every slug I've tried, and that's even stretching them out to 145 yards.

My current stance on slugs? If I get a new barrel or gun I'll try em, but I'm not investing much time or money in them anymore. One 10 shot test group with a slug is typically all I need to move on these days.

I'm going to try and shoot slugs at the monthly XFT matches at PR&GC starting November (can't make Oct on business trip). I'll look at the 11 non forced position lanes as a baseline. Probably should have Cole shoot the gun since he's better at XFT but I'm sure he has his own interests. I'll be shooting a .25 FX Impact X (700mm Slug A) with Athlon Midas BTR 4-27x scope and NSA 38.9 slugs at 965 fps. Could shift to 43.5 NSA at 920 fps if they prove more accurate. We'll need to keep good log of wind speed and direction during the match to see if the slugs higher BC (0.105) benefits compared to pellets. Should be interesting...
PS., I could shoot the slugs faster, but that would require a total re-tune of the gun from the current reg. pressure of 135 bar to very high, in the 175 to180 bar range. That would get me to the mid 1030 to 1050 fps range, but I'd need a tungsten hammer and new reg. that works with high pressure (my Impact X is an older version). So maybe if I do get good results as is I'll tweak the gun, but not till Springtime and only if the gun does well as is...

 

[Vetmx]

When it comes to slugs there are some things that should be obvious but guys overlook. Maybe some guys know better but the need to shoot something a million fps clouds their judgment. Here are 2 pictures, both the same caliber. One of these projectiles is begging to frustrate you because it’s a slug. The other is approaching what would appear to be an actual bullet. Stubby dumb little bullets keyhole or become unstable out of our powder burners so………

 

[qball]

The slugs certainly require more tuning knowledge than pellets. There are many found ways to shoot slugs and shared the knowledge here on AGN. It certainly isn’t an easy journey.

 

[Ranchibi]

All the above recommendations are vital to slug shooting! My RAW HMx .22 likes NSA 17.5gr .2175 slugs but not 17.5gr .217....that little amount of circumference makes a world of difference in accuracy and if the slug does not fit snuggly into breech/lands.....shotgun groups! So...I need to measure each and every slugs diameter if I want to shoot accurately unlike pellets where I shoot JSB 18gr str8 from the tin more accurately than I can shoot. Slug shooting takes a lot more dedication than pellets for sure and will be frustrating! LOL!

 

[qball]

All the above recommendations are vital to slug shooting! My RAW HMx .22 likes NSA 17.5gr .2175 slugs but not 17.5gr .217....that little amount of circumference makes a world of difference in accuracy and if the slug does not fit snuggly into breech/lands.....shotgun groups! So...I need to measure each and every slugs diameter if I want to shoot accurately unlike pellets where I shoot JSB 18gr str8 from the tin more accurately than I can shoot. Slug shooting takes a lot more dedication than pellets for sure and will be frustrating! LOL!

Good to know! I’ll let the guy I know who has the RAW in .22 k ow about trying .2175 NSA!

 

[Ranchibi]

Good to know! I’ll let the guy I know who has the RAW in .22 k ow about trying .2175 NSA!

qball, remember each barrel is ever so slightly different but I do hope his barrel will do well with .2175'! Best bet is to get a .22 sample pack from NSA, that helps narrow sizes much easier and less costly!

 

[coffeepan]

All the above recommendations are vital to slug shooting! My RAW HMx .22 likes NSA 17.5gr .2175 slugs but not 17.5gr .217....that little amount of circumference makes a world of difference in accuracy and if the slug does not fit snuggly into breech/lands.....shotgun groups! So...I need to measure each and every slugs diameter if I want to shoot accurately

In this case, it would be almost easiest to directly buy a .217 sizing die from NOE and widen it to .217,5 and then buy wider slugs .218/ .219 and size those slugs to the right diameter

 

[Chukar60]

Thanks for chiming in.

For now, I'm going to put my dreams on hold until the ammo and barrel companies get things a little more dialed in.

If you are waiting for them to develop slugs and barrels to the point they shoot any slug of a given weight and diameter into tiny little holes you will be waiting a very long time.
Even with powder burners that condition does not exist. Every barrel is slightly different and no two will shoot exactly alike with a given load.
You can only buy a certain percentage of superlative performance and the rest you have to work for.

 

[abqjoe]

I have an M3 Sniper in 30 cal as well as an M3 Compact in 22 cal and both shoot the FX Hybrids incredibly well. I dual tune. On my 22 M3 Compact, with the power wheel on 16, I have it tuned to shoot the 22gr FX Hybrids at 960fps. Then I turn the power wheel down to 6 and it shoots my Hades pellets at the same speed with no difference in POI at ranges of 30 yards on my property. I only have the barrels that they came with.

 

[corny]

Welcome to reality, and not AGN fantasy... It IS possible, but most of the time, its not easy...
Also you want to shoot slugs with a BC higher than 0.10 (or close), and not the light ones. Might as well shoot high BC pellets if you're only going to shoot something like the NSA 20.2 or FX Hybrids with a BC only slightly higher than the .25 JSB King Heavy.

Kinda feel like I can throw in my two bits here.
As I shoot .22cal 20.2 gr nsa in two guns, and feel there is a considerable difference in knockdown and BC (.075) Especially considering the comparable pellet would be the MRD with a .053bc in .22cal

I’ve also had these same guns setup with 25cal 34gr king heavy. IMO, the choice of ammo is pretty clear. Cheaper with better flight er trajectory…makes for easier hits.

I know I could shoot heavier slugs, but I’m always concerned about accidental damage to object past my target. I prefer to keep my FPE down.

 

[bigHUN]

I don't want to tell you my story, many have said the same above.
But I have one observation.
Everybody talking brand-cal-weight-speed slugs or pellets.
But nobody is mentioning the rifling twist rate for a given projectile being tested.
I think the barrel or liner twist rate dictates what speed "sweet spot" we shall be looking.

 

[Scott.t]

Some guns will like them and some won’t. Most of the guns I’ve had didn’t shoot slugs well. I had a Benjamin Kratos .25 that didn’t like any pellets except for the jsb 25.4gr pellets and they weren’t as accurate as I would have liked. Decided to try the fx hybrids and it was laser accurate with those. I had an fx maverick with a 700mm and 500mm both .30 cals with factory liners. Both loved the fx hybrid slugs and the nsa 49gr slugs, more accurate than any pellet out of those barrels. Put a 500mm .25 barrel on it and it didn’t like any slug I put through it. I have an AEA challenger pro .357 that has liked every slug I’ve tried in it minus 1. It shoots jsb pellets accurately but is most accurate with the fx hybrid slugs, nsa 110gr slugs come in 2nd and my home cast 108gr semi wad cutters come in 3rd

 

[MEC17670]

I've had really good luck with NSA slugs out of my Crown mk2 600mm. Here's a group shot at 57 yards. 29gr , 960.

 

[Chuck-in-Ohio]

I have yet to get acceptable accuracy from anything FX in .30 with the Hybrids. Pellet A, Pellet B, Slug A etc..... Not the norm at all, but just my case.
My Evol .30 LOVES the FX Hybrids, go figure eh.........

 

[madeintheuk]

Sounds like a lot of people getting good results with the 20.2 nsa in their guns. Going to have to try these out. So far, I’ve had bad luck with anything except hybrids out of my old impact mk2 shooting them at about 960fps. I never got past 50yds to know if they opened up or not before selling the gun though. I’m gearing up to buy an evol 15”, and from what I hear, those nsa work well in that barrel too. I’ll try them, but it’s not a deal breaker for me if they don’t shoot. Most of my shooting is within 100yds anyway.