An interesting study in contrasts

I have the most esoteric tastes in airguns (generally) and air pistols (specifically) of anyone on Earth. That's inarguable; don't even try.

Probably has something to do with being an airgun fanatic over sixty years, and air pistol fanatic over a half-century; in that time doing more things with a wider diversity of airguns than anyone to ever stroll the Earth. And I ain't done yet!

Given that autobiography, pondering a couple of favorites tonight (over adult beverages) I found a good 'study in contrasts' example of my 'unique' air pistol tastes. Though one of but MANY such examples, it seems nevertheless an interesting example.

Study in contrasts.1626319435.jpg


The top pistol was modified for pistol field target competition by an airgunsmith the majority of readers will not recognize, Allen Zasadny. Even fewer readers of this air pistol forum will recognize the gun itself, a Czechoslovakian .177 Tau MK 08 ten-meter PCP target pistol. Having written chapters on the Tau, I won't repeat myself here.

Though Allen Z does almost unimaginable things to airguns, he wasn't able to soup-up the 5 foot-pound Tau beyond the 9 foot pounds I'd managed to eke out of her; this despite him investing an afternoon and a half trying... AT NO CHARGE. There's something you've never read, and doubtful ever will again! Thankfully (for me), Allen is a Realist, so doesn't believe in charging for something he wasn't able to accomplish. 

But thankfully he was able to machine the rifle barrel I supplied to fit, and a custom scope mount. Virtue of the 1" longer barrel and my monkeying, the 5 foot-pound Tau now achieves twice that with 8.4 or 10.3 grain JSBs with regulated consistency for 23 shots per 3000 PSI charge. Ol' Blue also averages 1/2" five-shot groups at the field target maximum range of 35 yards, and .70 - .80" five-shot groups at 50.

Fast-forwarding a decade or so, enter (into my and everyone else's little universe) the .22 caliber, Russian made Ataman AP16 Compact... obviously dwarfed by the mighty AZ Tau MK 08. But is it REALLY? Though obviously ill-suited to pistol field target competition, otherwise the little Ataman 'measures up' quite admirably... in stock form! 

The triggers of both the .AZ Tau MK 08 and the Ataman AP16 Compact break like glass at a fraction over two pounds, both have the wonderful firing behaviors and gratifying pop of regulated PCPs (though the AP 16 begs hearing protection), both return 23 regulated shots per charge (albeit the Tau at 200 BAR and the AP at 250-270 BAR), and both pistols crowd 700 FPS. However the .22 Ataman does so with twice as heavy pellets as does the .177 Tau!

Accuracy? Comparable; but that statement requires some qualification. So smitten am I with the Ataman AP16 I have assembled the barrel, shroud, and chamber-tube components to have/convert to both the Compact and Standard (length) versions with one pistol. Suffice to say I have a 40 year love affair and personal history with Thompson-Center Contenders. If unfamiliar, Google it.

Consequently, I know for a fact that shorter barrels are no less accurate than long barrels. But in a pistol, longer barrels better (and more aesthetically) accommodate higher magnification scopes; be they pistol or rifle scopes. That being the case, I'll proclaim my AP16 Compact just as accurate as my AP16 Standard, provided I was willing to compromise the aesthetics of my Compact set-up with as much magnification as my AP16 Standard wears. I'm not.

AP16 1.3 and 2-7X.1626325459.jpg


The AP16 Compact is my small-game hunting pistol for offhand shooting at practical handgun ranges. The longer-barreled, 2-7X scoped AP16 Standard set-up is my long-range hunting air pistol, to ranges most shooters should not attempt... certainly not without one that shoots this well.

AP16 50 yards.1626327012.jpg


AP16 red dot 25.1626325855.jpg


Not to say I don't love my AZ Tau MK 08 anymore since getting the Ataman. Fact is, I don't love it any LESS.

25 yd MK 08.1626327056.JPG


I'll close by saying anyone that considers the $999 price-tag of an Ataman AP16 to be excessive... obviously has never paid for Allen Zasadny's services!












 
Curious, do you shoot off a bag / rest or freehand ?

I like my AP16 Compact . Both the long and short barrel guns were available when I bought mine. I'm not a fan of the longer barrels (in my rifle buying also). Adding the Huma suppressor was hard to do ! And I only added one section..!

Ataman, AP16, .177.1626331280.JPG


My Steyr LP50 Sport is about a 1/4 step above my AP16, and my Kalibrgun Ocelot is about 1/4 step below my AP16. Suffice to say, all three of my PCP pistols are right up there in my "very happy" with, category.

My LP 50 Sport is the only one of the three that I haven't done anything to. Even the trigger was very well adjusted by my feel.

I actually like shooting the BIG Ocelot. It's a big beast, but the feel, the trigger and the accuracy are excellent. I guess it's the size and shape of the thing that gets my attention. Though, I like shooting the Steyr enough that, it's VERY easy to not pay quiet enough attention to, and run it completely out of air. The "semi-auto" shooting is just plain fun. The AP 16, with it's Colt .45 feel, just sorta "fits in it's own way"...too.

Mike
 
"do you shoot off a bag / rest or freehand ?"

Yes, all the above. Depends on the circumstances, set-up, and rig. 

For all the head-butting you and I have done, we have much in air pistol common Mike. Thanks for the civility.

My Huma suppressor arrives tomorrow; you can guess what it's going on (primarily). However I got enough sections to cover 40 to 120 MM in 20 MM increments, and got it in .25 to also cover some rifles.

I liked my Steyr LP5, but didn't feel it accurate as I expected (3/4" groups at 25 yards, scoped). But I bought it used.

The Ocelot I also bought used was misrepresented by the buyer, despite the fact I asked point-blank, "Are there any other problems or issues not mentioned; functional or cosmetic?" Still no mention of big scratches on the barrel touched-up with black marker, broken grip, and excessive blow-by at the breech. I kept it anyway; but even after correcting the blow-by I found accuracy not impressive (for a thousand dollar air pistol). Mind you, it had a hard life before it came to me. I liked a .22 PP700 better, and wrote a chapter about that.

I also have an LD (carbine) and a Falcon FN12 pistol coming tomorrow, but the seller backed out of parting with his AZ Steyr LP10 in .22 caliber. DOH! 




 
AirNGasman,
Considering that I started airgunning late in life you clearly are way ahead of me:

—in quantity of guns you own
—in quality of guns you own
—in writing about airgunning
—in shooting performance

and
—in how far you have slid down the rabbit hole of our airgunning hobby...!!



Very cool! Thanks for the write-up. I saw several of your airgunning books on Amazon. Neat!

Matthias
























 
Very nice results with both! I can only hope to reach the level of pedigree and volume your pistol collection has. I know I won't ever come close, but one can dream! I just got a new to me brocock pistol I'm working on here. I like rifles and all. But their character and flaws are muted. Pistols don't really hold anything back. But at the same time, all of my pistols also have swappable carbine stocks. Including my latest aquisition. Nice to have options. Or just change it up.

That said, I would like to get an AP16 someday. I almost did before, but I missed my chance (classifieds) I'm tempted to get a ranchero as well, but I want a .177, and no one seems to part with those, just .22 
 
"how far you have slid down the rabbit hole of our airgunning hobby…!!" Truth be told JS, it's more like something between a sink-hole and a black hole. I keep thinking I should thin the herd some, but can't seem to bring myself to do it. I prefer to think of it as a compulsion... rather than bat-sh** crazy! And when that doesn't work, I delude myself that crazy is a relative term, and a lot of folks have worse monkeys on their backs than mine. Correction- a few folks... maybe.

A buddy and I owned Brocock PCP pistols some years ago Long Gun, and I liked mine a lot. We both used them in air pistol field target (and a little silhouette) to good effect, and monkeyed with the triggers to get them as light as possible. Being an engineer, he dove deeper into the trigger design and confirmed what I thought. You can get them down to an excellent, crisp, hunting grade trigger; however not light enough for serious high-level competition work. But the accuracy is there. 

Don't know if you've seen the link below of my Brocock Grand Prix testing notes (linked below). But beyond the Brocock area of interest you should know that the final note referring to losing by one point (shy of a perfect score) was to an FX Ranchero. To add insult to injury, this to a buddy who never beat me in PFT until I helped him adjust his Ranchero trigger right before that match. Then I couldn't beat him for over a year after that!

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View attachment Brocock GP pistols pdf.1626373572.pdf



I haven't owned or handled a Brocock XR Atomic, John. However I can tell by the specs it is by no means an offhand pistol. That has been confirmed by some reviewers. Large, heavy pistols are too cumbersome for offhand shooting beyond a few shots at a time, and the XR is very large and heavy. The flip side is it makes it a fantastic bench-rest-specific pistol, or mini carbine (with a shoulder stock). Probably better in those roles than even a/my Ataman AP16 Standard. 
 
Hey, sometimes that's how the dice roll. Kind of funny, but I guess highlights the need to have the most competitive equipment if you are competing. I recon it proved to be a good challenge for you as well for that time.

My GP is essentially the same as yours. I'm told it has a great barrel. I've just been re-bluing and cleaning it. Waiting on some parts to arrive. Got a contour s6 stock that the action drops right into. But will need a better size/positioned trigger blade. And I will be re-working the pistol grip some. Perch is wrong, and some other small things. I can tell the trigger is quite good. More than good enough for hunting. Competing.... not quite.


I'll weigh in on the Atomic. Stated weight of 4lbs in pistol config without sights is QUITE heavy. I think my real 1911 is over 3lbs, and it's a brick. Now, sometimes weight can be an advanatage. But In my opinion, a solid air pistol rig should be around 3lbs fully outfitted (with scope). Absolute max of 4lbs with sight. And that's really pushing it. I have one such gun, and it does shoot extremely well, but there's no way I could shoot a match and do well with it because I just couldnt hold it steady for that many shots due to the weight.

This gun is 14.25" (7.6" barrel) and includes an integrated moderator. The atomic is 14.5" and is not moderated.

PSX_20200322_015338.1626383321.jpg


I think this is a good representation of how large this gun is 

HAM-1-11.1626383595.jpg