Another Hades expansion picture

[Leatherman]

I know there have been lots of posts showing expansion on Hades pellets but hear is real results on real animal flesh and bone. I shot this medium size groundhog today with my .22 Crown using Hades 15 grn pellet. I have my gun tuned at 145bar, transfer port on 25/30 and have opened up the transfer probe. This was to shoot the heavier pellets and slugs but the Hades just outshoot everything else in my Continum 380 barrel. To get the best accuracy I had to just dial back the hammer to #4 and that gives me right at 900 FPS. Even at 960 FPS it still shot great but at 900 it is more consistent. This groundhog took up residence under my shed and this was the first time I spotted him. It was only a 25 yard shot hitting him just below the ear , passing through the lower part of the skull and coming to rest under the skin on his cheek. So that is about 2 1/2” of penetration through skin, bone and muscle and This is all the expansion I got. Granted it was a young groundhog which would have thinner, softer skull and thinner skinned than an old 15 pound adult. I don’t know how much more if any another 60 or 80 FPS would have made. I have seen so many expansion test done on countless types of media from wet phone books, ballistic jell and different types of clay type materials with some showing impressive expansion but nothing beats the real test of flesh and bone. The Hades did the job along with proper shot placement but I still prefer a heavier pellet or slug on animals bigger than a grey squirrel . I usually use my AF Condor in 25 shooting Hunters Supply 48 grain HP at 1100 FPS. Which anchors big ground hogs even with shoulder shots. The new FX slugs shoot better than the Hunters Supply and do a great job as well but I just like big heavy bullets that produce big fpe. And big wound channels. 

 

[JungleShooter]

Leatherman,

thank you for sharing your data and your pictures!



So, punching the numbers into Strelok gives a target velocity @25y of 780fps.

That looks like fast enough for good expansion....



The pellet photo appears to show a rather wide expansion, but a photo without the unfired comparison pellet by it is easily misjudged. Maybe you could measure the head width?



Thanks again — THIS is the kind of info that we need.



Matthias

 

[Guest]

I shoot sparrows and starlings with hades and the destructioni is exstensive you can see the difference the hades and normal JSB

 

[Blackpaw]

Yes very nice expansion And good sized rock / wood chuck. I am hoping to be able toer my Crown Continuum in .22 cal from Krale, I hope this week to order it. Currently, I have a Brocock Compatto Sniper XR in .177, and Hades in .117 aren’t available yet, from I can see in the netherlands. I have tried some H&N Barracuda Hunter Extremes (BHE) and their expansion is effective, at least on fruit, best I can do right now. Have you tried the H&N BHE at all? I am curious how the BHE compare to the Hades.

Here is a photo of the HN BHE after impacting a pumpkin at 10 m around 890 FPS at the muzzle and expansion is from an original 4.9ish mm to 6.2/3 mm.

 

[AirgunBill]

From what I understand expansion tests are meant to gauge expansion into flesh only. Ballistic gels are meant to approximate flesh. Fruits, vegetables, clay, water, bone and other materials do not have the same density as flesh and is why they are not used to gauge expansion. For me anyway if you are taking head shots into thick skull critters like groundhogs you do not want expansion but penetration. That will give you a margin for error if shot is less than ideal to angle of impact. Bill

 

[Blackpaw]

I see where you are coming from and yes, depending on the creature you are shooting at the expansion “aka” energy dump on a pigeon would need to be different than on a rock chuck where you need to go deeper before the dump. I will make some ballistics gel and try the test again and report back, Andy Airguns Review had a nice recipe that I can make at home.

 

[Hajimoto]

I am a true Hades fan. The Hunting Pellet ShootOut video I did confirmed that the Hades is devastating.

Before and After
SKABLAM!!



Hajimoto

 

[JungleShooter]

Haji,

that was an interesting video you did! Thank you for all your efforts, especially helping those gun owners that have chosen not to buy 4-digit price sticker guns!



Now for your next video I'd really like to see some of the same pellets tested at velocities that are more realistic in a hunting scenario.... 

I mean, there aren't many of us who shoot almost supersonic (test velocity 1068fps — Skenco UltraShock HP).

And if you wanted to really hit your quarry with the 983fps test velocity of the Hades, you'd have to shoot it with the speed of sound (c. 1120fps) at the muzzle. And your quarry must be closer than 13y for that impact velocity. Any further and the Hades is going to be much slower, even at this insanely fast muzzle velocity. And thus it might have much less of an expansion....



The expansion test was filmed very well — and done with such wildly varying impact velocities/ energy levels that one wonders why the JSB pellets got the benefit of more power, and why the H&N were shot with less power...? Apparently the power was available — why not apply it to all pellets equally and level the playing field between JSB and H&N?



The data for comparison:

ME = muzzle energy for expansion test

V(Exp) = velocity for expansion test (fps)

V(Acc) = velocity for accuracy test (fps) (follow-up video)

Pellet | ME, V(Exp) | V(Acc)

JSB Hades 32FPE, 983 876

JSB UltraSh 42FPE, 863 712

H&N BcHu 21FPE, 720 820

H&N BcHEx 29FPE, 836 815 





(I omitted the Skenco pellet as it is not mainstream, and I skipped the CPHP as we all know it does not expand — so both are not real competitors.)



Haji, I really appreciate your work in general. And I really appreciate realistic data when choosing a pellet.

Matthias

 

[JimNM]

Expansion is a great goal....but it means nothing without accuracy and good shot placement.

FWIW, all of my guns shoot the Hades with hunting acceptable accuracy in .22 and .25 at 600fps to 960fps. I have had much few shots pass through my pests with the Hades than I do with other pellets. To my needs in populated areas, the energy dissapation on target and accuracy are critical.

I enjoy reading about the development of slugs and super long range shooting, but it is not for me at this time.

Shoot'em good

 

[Caper]

Check this out. 
Gamo magnum .177

Clay target 20yds 

velocity at target 901Fps

poured wax in to display shock cavity left. It’s apps 5inch long and around 2 inch diameter 

 

[gendoc]

great info guy's

my dream-tac compact does awesome with the .22 hades @ 940fps 

 

[bowdude]

Good stuff here guys!! I need to get some of these & try them out. Does any one have any expansion test from a gun in the 20-22fpe range? 

 

[JungleShooter]

Bowdude,

for more expansion testing check out this thread here:

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/%f0%9f%94%b4-hollow-point-pellets-comparison-of-specs-performance/



Note that harder ballistic mediums like clay, wax, or soap will give much better expansion than real flesh or ballistic gel (10%).



Also note that the "shock cavity" in non-elastic mediums will look like permanent damage to the quarry. But flesh is mostly elastic (brain isn't...) — so in quarry this is only a temporary cavity that will snap back into place.

The real damage is only the permanent cavity, the tissue which the projectile actually destroyed through slicing and crushing.

More info here: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/%f0%9f%92%80-quarry-what-killsem-dead-the-mechanics-of-killing/





I'll put out a few more expansion test results this weekend at the end of the first thread I mentioned above.



Matthias

 

[MushroomPsyche]

I really like the .22 Hades a lot. So much so that I tuned my Taipan Veteran long to solely shoot the Hades as a backyard pest control gun. I wanted to maximize the pellet's velocity while also maintaining its accuracy. I did a ton of reading about other people's experiences regarding accuracy at certain velocities and determined that I will tune mine to shoot at 945 FPS to 950 FPS which is around 31 FPE. This is 94 bars on the Taipan Veteran's regulator.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

Haji,

that was an interesting video you did! Thank you for all your efforts, especially helping those gun owners that have chosen not to buy 4-digit price sticker guns!

Now for your next video I'd really like to see some of the same pellets tested at velocities that are more realistic in a hunting scenario.... 

I mean, there aren't many of us who shoot almost supersonic (test velocity 1068fps — Skenco UltraShock HP).

And if you wanted to really hit your quarry with the 983fps test velocity of the Hades, you'd have to shoot it with the speed of sound (c. 1120fps) at the muzzle. And your quarry must be closer than 13y for that impact velocity. Any further and the Hades is going to be much slower, even at this insanely fast muzzle velocity. And thus it might have much less of an expansion....

The expansion test was filmed very well — and done with such wildly varying impact velocities/ energy levels that one wonders why the JSB pellets got the benefit of more power, and why the H&N were shot with less power...? Apparently the power was available — why not apply it to all pellets equally and level the playing field between JSB and H&N?



The data for comparison:

ME = muzzle energy for expansion test

V(Exp) = velocity for expansion test (fps)

V(Acc) = velocity for accuracy test (fps) (follow-up video)

Pellet | ME, V(Exp) | V(Acc)

JSB Hades 32FPE, 983 876

JSB UltraSh 42FPE, 863 712

H&N BcHu 21FPE, 720 820

H&N BcHEx 29FPE, 836 815 





(I omitted the Skenco pellet as it is not mainstream, and I skipped the CPHP as we all know it does not expand — so both are not real competitors.)



Haji,

I really appreciate your work in general. And I really appreciate realistic data when choosing a pellet.

Matthias

This is exactly why I test the expansion through ballistics gel at the speeds and energy levels where the porojectile would be at around the maximum yardages that I shoot game at. If 100 yards distance is equal to 750 fps with the given power and velocity, then this is the speeds that I want the projectile to hit the gel at, not at muzzle velocity with all available energy pushing the projectile through the gel, like so many ballistics gel show.