Another newbie with questions

  • Thread starter Deleted member 46449
  • Start date
Jump to latest Follow Reply
D

Deleted member 46449

Guest
Yep, I'm a newbie, both to air gun shooting and to this forum. I'll try to not ask too many stupid questions, but I know I'll ask a few. A little background so you can get an idea of where I'm at and where I'd like to go. To make a long story short, health issues forced me to move in town and sell off all my traditional guns. Yeah, every one of them. Since I could no longer hunt and since living in town pretty much prevents me from just stepping out the backdoor and doing a little plinking. I didn't see the logic in keeping all the guns.

Then, after selling everything off, the urge to shoot something got the best of me. I was given an old Crosman 1377 that is in pretty good condition with a suggestion to try air gun target shooting. I live about 200 feet from a wooded area where I can plink and I also spoke with one of our city council members who said that in this town, it is legal to shoot an air gun on my own property as long as no projectile leaves my own property. So, I decided to at least try air gun shooting to see if I enjoy it.

My first question(s) concerns the 1377. I have already contacted Crosman and using the serial number I know this 1377 was manufactured in 1997. With that in mind, what do you guys suggest I do to it? Are there any parts/pieces I need to replace to be sure the gun is working as efficiently as possible? Are there aftermarket parts I should install to improve the performance of the gun? How much "modding" is this gun worth? Or, should I just put the thing in the closet and kind of forget I have it?

Next, I got into online discussions with guys from two different air gun dealers and finally decided to purchase a Hatsan Mod 25 Supercharger QE in .22 caliber. It was literally delivered to my house a little over 30 minutes ago. I have done nothing to it except open the box. I know I'll do a thorough cleaning of the thing before I shoot it. My questions here start with the obvious one. Did I make a good purchase selecting the Mod 25? If so, what should I consider doing to this gun? Should I leave it as is, or are there aftermarket products I need to consider purchasing? Then, are there any tips/tricks I should know about shooting this thing?

I know I'll have lots more questions as I go along, but if any of you have anything to offer regarding either the 1377 or the Mod 25, fire away. And, thanks in advance.
 
Welcome to the madness! You'll get varying opinions on whether your choice is good. You got what you got. MY suggestion is get a pellet sampler to see what your gun "prefers" (airguns, whether break barrels or PCP can be pellet finicky) & work with that combination til you can get the MOST out of your gun & your abilities. You, yourself, will get to know if you made a choice that works for YOU. Good luck on your journey! IMHO don't sweat the aftermarket stuff til you learn what your gun can do.
Gerry
 
  • Like
Reactions: beerthief
Upvote 0
Regardless of previous posts, you should enjoy the Hatsan. It may not be as great as a $3k precision air rifle, but for your needs will probably work great.

When you clean the barrel, don’t use traditional powder gun cleaners, Hoppes.

Be sure to use cleaners that are compatible with the o-rings. Do a search for gun cleaning on this forum and find a good choice of cleaner.

For the 1377, if it hold pressure, then you are good. If not, they can be rebuilt cheaply. Orings are cheap. Use a few drops of crosman pellgunoil on the wiper to help hold pressure and make it smooth.

You should be able to have a lot of fun in your backyard.

Enjoy.
 
Upvote 0
OK. Thanks for the responses, guys. At this point I have no idea if the two guns I have will work out for me. I knew before I posted the questions I have that I'd get responses, both pro and con. Regardless of which of my traditional firearms I happened to have out shooting, there were guys that raved about the gun and there were guys that claimed they were junk and not worth owning. Same goes for cars, computers, and refrigerators. We all have our opinions.

As for the pellets, I did a boat load of research and reading on them, too. After reading through everything on about 7 or 8 sites, I kind of took it all in and hashed it around until I finally decided on Crosman Premier domed .22 lead pellets to start with on the Hatsan and Daisy Pointed Field .177 pellets for the 1377. Might not be right, but I had to start somewhere. I know that I had almost as many different types of .22 rimfire ammo as I did rifles and pistols. Those guns could be really finicky when it came to the ammo. Some loved CCIs and some wouldn't hit paper with a CCI. I think I had a couple of boxes of .22 ammo from every damned ammo manufacturer there is. I'd sometimes forget which ammo a certain rifle liked and as soon as I started punching paper, I knew whether I had grabbed the right, or wrong, box. LOL!

Now, as to the oil situation. I'm sure glad you brought that up, Bam86. I was actually all prepared to use my regular cleaners and oils on these air guns. Could you elaborate on that subject just a bit? Should I pack all my regular gun cleaners and oils in a box and put them away, or even toss them out? I don't want to cause any harm to these guns by using the wrong stuff. I'm going to do a search for cleaners and oils on here as soon as I post this, but if you'd like to suggest a specific cleaner or oil I'd be all ears. I have quite a few different synthetic cleaner/oil combinations I used on my regular firearms. Maybe I should do a bunch of reading before I start cleaning these up.

Gerry, thanks for the suggestion to hold off on aftermarket stuff. I wasn't REALLY looking forward to spending lots of $$$ right out of the gate, but I would if there was a consensus on a particular part/piece I should buy. I do recall reading over and over again about a steel breech kit for the 1377 that it seems everybody recommends. I did check and mine is plastic. It was manufactured in 1997, if that helps. Is that steel breech kit something I should plan on grabbing hold of one day soon? It seems that the prices were in the $40 to $50 range so I didn't want to jump on one until I knew for sure if it was worthwhile.

And Bam86, a little fun is all I'm after. I never realized how much I'd miss killing a few cans with one of my .22 rimfires. Not being able to step out the backdoor and unloading about 50 to 100 rounds is somehow soothing to me. I guess it is for a lot of guys. Hopefully I can quiet this urge with the new airguns. Now, off to search for gun cleaners and oils.

Thanks, guys!
 
Upvote 0
SM,
Welcome, glad you're here. Solid advice, so far, afraid not much love around for the Hatsan, I've noticed, doesn't mean you won't be perfectly happy with it. Restoring an older gun to proper operating parameters is a no-brainer, for me, modifying it, another matter. As far as adding do-dads and modding either gun, that's up to you, some have gone overboard and regret it when trying to resell, very hard to re-coup costs. If you never plan to resell really doesn't matter and the learning experience can be rewarding. If you're anything like the rest of us, you'll want to upgrade someday, so might consider saving the money for that, rather than spending it on "starter" guns. Seems like your circumstances make this hobby an ideal fit, like it is for many of us, follow along, search the archives, ask questions, plenty of good people ready to help. WM
 
Upvote 0
Gerry52 said:
Welcome to the madness! You'll get varying opinions on whether your choice is good. You got what you got. MY suggestion is get a pellet sampler to see what your gun "prefers" (airguns, whether break barrels or PCP can be pellet finicky) & work with that combination til you can get the MOST out of your gun & your abilities. You, yourself, will get to know if you made a choice that works for YOU. Good luck on your journey! IMHO don't sweat the aftermarket stuff til you learn what your gun can do.
Gerry
Click to expand...
You have the right idea , clean the barrel well , shoot it . 1377 is not a springer so you might like it better . there is a TON of mod's you can do inexpensively a steel breach (simple R&R ) is a good thing . Both pistols are "just add pellets " = fun
 
Upvote 0
Thanks, WM. I have no idea if I'll like either of these guns, but since one was given to me and the other cost a total of $110, delivered to the door, I don't think I'm hurt yet.

I spent the last several minutes reading over different threads about cleaners and oils. I found pretty much what I expected. Everybody has an opinion and they are all slightly different. A couple of threads even had some heated back and forth between guys. So, I went back and grabbed several cans/bottles of what I had been using on my regular firearms. I'm going to list them and you guys can tell me which ones to avoid and which ones are OK to use on these two guns I now have.

1) Amsoil Firearm Cleaner and Protectant
2) Amsoil Firearm Lubricant - 100% synthetic
3) Pro-Shot Zero-Friction Ultra High Tech Synthetic Lubricant
4) Remington Rem Oil with Teflon Lubricant
5) Break Free CLP
6) Hoppe's Lubricating Oil
7) Outers Gun Oil Rust Preventative Lubricant

And I found an item I didn't know I had. I was given a Gamo cleaning kit with the 1377. It has been well used, but still has several cleaning pellets and patches, and also has a tube of Crosman Silicone Chamber Oil.

Now, are any of those OK to use on these two guns? If so, is any one of them better than the others? I haven't tried tearing either of these guns apart and at this point I'm kind of lost with regards to applying Chamber Oil to the guns. Exactly where should I be applying the Chamber Oil? On both guns, one of them, or both of them?
 
Upvote 0
beerthief, you pretty much described exactly what I'm looking for out of these two guns. The real reason I even accepted the 1377 and bought the Hatsan was so I could have a little fun in the backyard or the nearby wooded area. I have no idea what the future holds, but I really doubt I'll ever become an expert marksman, participating in elaborate contests. I might eventually want to buy a different, and better, pistol, but all I'm looking for now is some fun and if I become good enough with the guns, maybe I can eliminate a few critters that invade my backyard. Another possibility is to thin out at least a few of the feral cats this small city has. Money in small towns is tight and when things got tighter a few years back the city council voted to close the animal pound and terminate the "dog catcher". It didn't take any time at all for the cats to become a real problem. I'm talking thousands of feral cats, just roaming the city and being real problems. I know that at least a couple have been killed, then taken to a local vet who determined the cats had rabies. I've even had them inside my garage. So, maybe there could be a few less in my neighborhood, at least. LOL!

Anyway, I'm just looking to have some fun right now. If I can glean a little info from guys on this forum, I'll be a better man for it. I look forward to reading all your posts. Right now, it's "honey do" time.
 
Upvote 0
BTW, my first two hunting rifles were Hatsans (BT65 in .22 & .25). I did a LOT of pesting with those & learned a lot about shooting airguns, how they operate & how to shoot better. It's up to the individual how much they get out of the learning experience. It wasn't until I got my current guns just how good a quality airgun can be but when all I had were Hatsans I enjoyed them (ignorance is bliss!) and they did the job. They're not as bad as some people think & they're not as good as some think. Make sense?
 
Upvote 0
@smhardesty First off, welcome to AGN. On using cleaning chemicals from your powder burners to clean your airguns - to my understanding solvents used in PBs has a lot to do with removing the carbon build up and corrosive residue from combustion used to propel bullets from firearm cartridges. There should be no combustion in airguns, although I’ve read accounts of dieseling (an entirely different topic). Since there is no combustion or residue, there usually isn’t a need for super aggressive cleaning or harsh chemicals. In PCP airguns manufacturers use o-rings to keep the air where it needs to be for the guns to function properly. In using harsh chemicals in the barrel the breech o-ring can be damaged easily. Some solvents can accelerate the degradation of these rubber o-rings causing air to leak. That’s an issue that is bound to happen but it is unwise to hasten the process. If solvents run down into the internals (via the transfer port) then the problem can extend into those areaa as well.

You can get away with an oil like Ballistol to clean your barrel using a pull through system like Patchworm or Crown Saver for light cleaning or a nylon brush for heavier cleaning (down into the rifled grooves). My experience is limited so I’m sharing info as I understand it. Many other members have a much better understanding of these things. Anyone with expertise here feel free to correct me where I’m wrong. For reference here’s a thread discussing using Hoppe’s #9 to clean airguns

Tuning - Hoppes #9 for cleaning?

Hello everyone, I'm getting some uncharacteristic (bad) grouping. Cleaned the barrel and it's a bit better but not anywhere as good as I'm used to. I've been using Ballistol only to clean the barrel. Is there anything that should prevent me from using Hoppes #9 to clean my barrel. It's a...
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com

Here’s a more recent thread with a similar discussion on cleaning airgun barrels. https://www.airgunnation.com/thread...ng-cotton-pellets.1272704/page-2#post-1312603
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Yes, it makes perfect sense to me, Gerry. One of the guns I had always caused a riff when a bunch of us got together to shoot. I had a Taurus 856 that I loved. It had the 3" barrel and at 25' to 30' and under, it was as accurate as any stub nosed, 3", or 4" .38 revolver out there. I loved that gun. Some of the firearms "snobs" I shot with did nothing but criticize the gun. They went on and on about how a S&W .38 Spl was SOOOOOO much better a gun. What they would NEVER admit is that when shooting against a S&W, I fired as tight a shot group, or better, than any of them. Is s S&W .38 a good gun? Oh yeah, it sure is. I wouldn't agrue with that a bit. I think I paid $289 for my 856 and a new S&W .38 was around $750 to $800. Literally more than twice as much as the 856 and I could shoot with anybody using a S&W all day long. They still continued to criticize and ridicule my 856. Never made sense to me. Both guns fired the same ammo, had the same effective ranges, and would shoot the same sized shot groups. So, why was my 856 criticized? I never got that one.

I'm sure that down the road, if I really like shooting sir pistols, I'll consider something a little higher end. And then again, I might just like the two I have so much I won't want anything else. I can't actually see that happening. We all know whether it's regular powder firearms or air guns, one or two is NEVER enough. LOL!
 
Upvote 0
Hello, Ezana4CE. I followed that perfectly. I can see where there would not be as tough a residue in an air gun versus what a powder gun creates. Makes perfect sense. I actually had already read that particular thread you included. There wasn't 100% agreement on that thread, just like several others I read. I keep seeing where using a CLP is all you need for an air gun. Now, that's just something I read on a few other threads. So, is the Break-Free CLP I have acceptable?

Then, I keep seeing where different cleaners or lubes cause problems with O-rings. Most of the threads that mention that are referring to PCP guns. I don't have a PCP so, do I have to worry about O-rings, or is that strictly a PCP issue? I might order in a Seal Kit from Crosman for this 1377, if I have any issues. I noticed that in that Seal Kit there is an O-ring included. Is that what the concern is with some cleaners and lubes?

Please excuse me if I ask the same question(s) over and over. If I do, it's either because I'm not following the advice I'm being offered, or I'm getting conflicting info from multiple guys. I'm not complaining. Free and open discussion is how problems are solved. I appreciate every comment I get from you guys. I'm prepared to clean both of these guns up, but I'm not going to touch them until I know I have a correct cleaner and lube. I sure don't want to cause myself any headaches. If none of the cleaners/lubes I currently have are acceptable, then I need to narrow down what I need to buy.

If somebody wants to offer up a good cleaner and lube, don't hesitate. I'll buy whatever is best for my two guns. I have the 1377 pump pistol and the Mod 25 spring piston, in case anybody needs to know. So, offer up some options. I'll appreciate anything you have to say.
 
Upvote 0
@smhardesty I’m not too familiar with that pistol, but I believe it too has o-rings as it is a pneumatic gun. The o-rings are what holds the air where it needs to be. Springers have seals that are more robust than o-rings to my understanding. I’m afraid that’s the extent of my knowledge here. I wanted to address the question since I caught it. Others will come with more advice on the topic.
 
Upvote 0
smhardesty said:
Hello, Ezana4CE. I followed that perfectly. I can see where there would not be as tough a residue in an air gun versus what a powder gun creates. Makes perfect sense. I actually had already read that particular thread you included. There wasn't 100% agreement on that thread, just like several others I read. I keep seeing where using a CLP is all you need for an air gun. Now, that's just something I read on a few other threads. So, is the Break-Free CLP I have acceptable?

Then, I keep seeing where different cleaners or lubes cause problems with O-rings. Most of the threads that mention that are referring to PCP guns. I don't have a PCP so, do I have to worry about O-rings, or is that strictly a PCP issue? I might order in a Seal Kit from Crosman for this 1377, if I have any issues. I noticed that in that Seal Kit there is an O-ring included. Is that what the concern is with some cleaners and lubes?

Please excuse me if I ask the same question(s) over and over. If I do, it's either because I'm not following the advice I'm being offered, or I'm getting conflicting info from multiple guys. I'm not complaining. Free and open discussion is how problems are solved. I appreciate every comment I get from you guys. I'm prepared to clean both of these guns up, but I'm not going to touch them until I know I have a correct cleaner and lube. I sure don't want to cause myself any headaches. If none of the cleaners/lubes I currently have are acceptable, then I need to narrow down what I need to buy.

If somebody wants to offer up a good cleaner and lube, don't hesitate. I'll buy whatever is best for my two guns. I have the 1377 pump pistol and the Mod 25 spring piston, in case anybody needs to know. So, offer up some options. I'll appreciate anything you have to say.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the forums. Lot of great guys here and you'll learn lots! I read through the posts so far so I don't repeat what's already been said (not too much anyway...)

Regarding the Hatsan, I went to the website to look it up

https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/mod-25-supercharger-qe/

I hope it's a typo but they say the damn thing has a 58 pound cocking effort! :eek:That's nuts heavy! You'll be bending the moderator cocking that thing.

Regarding the 1377 I just bought one brand new. For yours any idea how long it's been sitting around unused before you got it? A couple of drops of silicone based oil on the piston seal every now and then it the main thing. If you pump it up and it holds pressure, say overnight, it's fine. Worse case if you like shooting it but it leaks badly you can always get a new one for under $100.

Regarding cleaning airguns general advise and practice is to avoid petroleum based oils and cleaners. The high pressure air used can cause detonations, called "dieseling". Also petro chemicals can also degrade the rubber o-rings that are very common in air guns. Best to stick with silicone lubes and Ballistol as a cleaning solvent. Regards, Badger
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
With your 1377 you can get a new valve assembly for $20 that increases the pressure ,you can pump up to 30 times,seals and rebuild easy peasy,most of these guns only 6-7 screws holding gun and internals together. Buck Rail has 3d printed barrel spacers with a picatinny mount built in i think was $9, get a set and get a $30 center point reflex site from PA and put that on, the 1377 is notorious for shooting 3-5 inches high and right and you can’t adjust the rear sight low enough.
 
Upvote 0
BeMeUp said:
With your 1377 you can get a new valve assembly for $20 that increases the pressure ,you can pump up to 30 times,seals and rebuild easy peasy,most of these guns only 6-7 screws holding gun and internals together. Buck Rail has 3d printed barrel spacers with a picatinny mount built in i think was $9, get a set and get a $30 center point reflex site from PA and put that on, the 1377 is notorious for shooting 3-5 inches high and right and you can’t adjust the rear sight low enough.
Click to expand...
30 pumps? Mine is pretty stiff after 6-7 pumps, feels like it's about to twist out of my hand. What kind of velocity boost would 30 pumps yield versus 10?
 
Upvote 0
I bought the valve cause I needed a new one,mines a 1978 steel breech no bolt just a cover first yr made, I don’t think I have the strength to pump it 20 times I’m gonna chrono it for hahas at different pumps ,it said don’t pump less than three times been doing 6 at 10 pumps this thing barks like hell not back yard friendly if you have not so understanding neighbors,yes it does twist your arm off ,if chrono numbers are really high it might get a longer barrel and stock
 
Upvote 0
OK. I'll try and take things in order. By the way, I don't seem to find a direct way to quote a previous post or parts of it. Am I just overlooking the obvious? Now, onward!

Badger, You read it right about the 58 pounds, but I have to say I'm kind of questioning that. I only cocked it once right after I opened the box today because I had similar thoughts when I saw the 58 pounds they list. I'm an old codger and I have some health issues. I grabbed the thing and it seemed to break and cock awfully easy, especially when it's supposed to require 58 pounds of breaking pressure. Maybe I've just gotten stronger in my old age. LOL!

As for how long this thing has been sitting around, it was given to me by someone who claimed he never uses it. That's all I know at this point. Which is one of the big reasons I'm asking so many questions about cleaners and lubes. I figure if this thing has sat for 5 years or more, things internally might be a bit dry. I don't want to go shooting it only to find out it was in desperate need of lubrication. It's also the reason I asked about buying any parts/pieces to "rebuild" or refurb the thing. I might just go ahead and order in one of the Seal Kits listed in the original parts diagrams. It's nothing but seals and an )-ring, so shouldn't break the bank. Then, if I find it is needed, I already have it.

You also brought up a point about lubrication. I went and read through the owners manual. Under the "Maintenance" section it states, "Pellgunoil is best, but any light household oil is better than none". It says to put a couple of drops of Pellgunoil on the pump pivot pins, the trigger, the cocking mechanism, and the pump cup in the pump mechanism, and also states, "A little oil on the barrel helps prevent rust". I'm going to spend a little time later this evening reading the manual for the Hatsan. I haven't even cracked that manual open yet. It may very well state specific oil to be used on it.

So, from that and from a compilation of everything I've read on here and been told by you guys, it seems that using a pure synthetic CLP type product should satisfy the gun's needs. I'm still concerned with that O-ring. I have no idea if synthetic CLP would affect that O-ring. More reading and more suggestions, I guess. LOL!

WOW, BeMeUp. 30 pumps? I'm not at all doubting that, but I have a question. If the gun shoots .177 cal pellets at 600 fps using the stock 10 pumps, how fast will it shoot that same pellet at 30 pumps? That is for sure something I'll want some more info on. I definitely want to check out all the parts you offered. Who knows how far I'll end up going with this thing? And, as mentioned, if I totally screw it up I can always buy a new one for well under a hundred bucks. That's if I really like shooting the 1377. Only time will tell me that. I did notice during my casual once over of the gun that it appears a few roll pins and a half dozen screws will, in fact, disassemble the thing. I'm not going to tear into it right away. I'm going to want to shoot it a few times to see how well it is holding pressure. Heck, it might not even shoot a pellet. I might be looking at rebuilding before I get to use it. I'll let you know how that goes.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu