anschutz 335 sporter (aka crosman model 6500) - need help w/ piston seal

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ranedouglas

ranedouglas

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Jul 14, 2016
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.\"...big (red) balls in cowtown...\"
... does anyone out there in airgun land know for sure where i can get a psiton seal for these cool anschutz 335 sporters ?? it was sold here in the u.s. under crosman model 6500 in the late 1980's..... i was gonna email jim macarri , but he's closed for the week....and i dunno if he has something for it or not anyway....... fixing one for a fella here locally , so any help yall can give would be great ! - thanx. - paul. (i'd always wanted one of these - kinda thought it'd be like an fwb 124 with less power.) ... -- MODEL 335 ----- -------- .177 or .22 cal., BBC, SP, 700 FPS, 18.5 in. barrel, adj. trigger, 7.5 lbs. Disc. 2003.

AnschutzRf35SbyAns.jpg


AnschutzRifleModel335B9112.jpg
--- also known as ---- .

CROSMAN MODEL 6500 (ANSCHÜTZ MODEL 335) ----- - .177 cal., BBC, SP, 700 FPS, 18.5 in. barrel, 7.7 lbs. Mfg. 1986-1988.

CrosmanRifleModel6500L63B.jpg


The three German air rifles (M-6100, M-6300, and M-6500) represented Crosman´s 1980s "Challenger Line" excursion into adult precision air rifles. Fletcher´s 1998 book notes that this line "caught between RWS on the low end and Beeman on the high end, never really had a chance."


 
....well shoot , mr driskill , i hope i dont like it too terribly much....i might really need one then....i'll ask the guy if i can "sight it in" for him..... i still havent had time to run in my new .177 diana 430L (never had an underlever that i have kept) , or my .177 bsa supersport se (newer version) , or my new old stock .20 beeman r9 ...... thanx for the data , marflow.. i'm kinda thinking i can fit a gamo piston seal into the annie 335 now , but i gotta get lots of parts for a broke down webley tempest from chambers anyway... i always thought that crosman version of this fine german sporter showed a barrel-latching device , like an hw 35 , or hatsan model 99 , or browning gold - but maybe that's just a sling swivel - like the fwb 124D has....(nope, the old yeller archives said the 6500 did have positive barrel lockup, hmm).... ok, cool yall.... i'll try to be in a good mood so i can post a thread about it when i get to opening this 335 up and doing my thing... i got another laserized r1 sitting here, too.... i DID brag about the .20 r1 laserized when i tuned that up for another local fella.... turns out i was trying to chrono that 5mm r1 with an old green f1 chrony in evening or dusk light , which makes for much incorrect readings..... that guy loved the arh power tune kit in his nice r1 when he got to shooting it around his squirrels.... i still have the laser parts that came out of that thing, too....(prolly better get rid of that laser kit so i wont have an excuse to seek after a .22 hw 80k , huh ?).... yall take care. - paul.. https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/r-1-majik-happy-thanxgiving-yall/#post-391425 
 
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There were two versions of the 335.The first one had a manual barrel lock that pulled straight out, like an HW 35 or Webley Omega. 

The later version had a greatly improved angled lever lock, which worked exactly like the Walther LGR - great design, just squeeze to open - very rigid lockup, very easy to use. The stock lines are quite a bit different from the early model as well, most noticeably the sloped fore end.

The "Crosman Challenger" line was interesting:

The "6100" was a Diana model 45 (old version), with an unusual straight-line stock.

The "6300" was the Anschutz model 333. This used the same powerplant and trigger as the 335, but in a smaller simpler stock, a shorter lighter barrel, and a plain spring detent latch. A very nice junior rifle that is largely forgotten today. Kinda like an R7 with an extra hundred FPS and Anschutz barrel.

The "6500" was the 335. The powerplant was considered a bit sedate for a full-sized sporter in those day, but it’s one heck of a nice-handling, nice-shooting, very accurate rifle.

In Europe, both sport and target versions of the 335 were sold. The latter had a somewhat weaker spring of course, and was a very good entry-level 10-meter gun that could give an HW 55 a run for its money.

By the way, your photos in the initial post show three different guns. The middle one is the first-version 335 with Anschutz match sights. The bottom one is the second-version 335; all Crosman 6500’s that I have seen are this model. The top pic is an Anschutz model 35, a later gun that was a bit of a mongrel designed to use up spare parts! Basically a 333 in a 335 stock, with some additional cost-cutting features.
 
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Hi lads barrel now straight thank god but now need advice on trigger assembly / for some reason trigger just flops about back and forth when gun uncocked as under no tension/ then when gun cocked same floppy first stage until you get too second stage where trigger feels firm then fires. It's as if a spring or something is missing giving the trigger some tension / but without a gun to compare trigger too im lost if anyone can solve my dilemma I would be grateful best regards 

Paul




 
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Paul, I posted an earlier version of these trigger adjustment notes on that other forum. It sounds like the gun may have too much sear engagement.

Here's the link to Crosman's exploded diagram and part numbers/names. You'll need to refer to this to make sense of my wordy notes below! In the notes, "in" = clockwise screw rotation, "out" = counter-clockwise.

https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/201668554/6500-EVP.pdf

There is NO adjustment for pull weight per se on this trigger. This is set by "trigger spring 52,"” in the front of "sear latch 53,”" which is fixed in place.

There are three adjusters in the trigger block: "“sear adjusting screw 45" (and its "nut 46") in the back of the trigger block; "“trigger set screw 57" in front of the trigger; and "trigger creep screw 58" behind the trigger.

Screw 45 is set at the factory and regulates how far “"sear 51" swings back after release. It does not affect the trigger pull that I can see, and there is no reason to adjust it.

Screw 57 sets sear engagement, and thus the total trigger travel. When the gun is cocked, the top of the sear is pushed back by the piston rod, pivoting its lower leg forward to be trapped against a notch in the sear latch. “"Trigger 55" is pinned to the back of the sear latch. When screw 57 is turned in, it reduces sear engagement by lowering the trigger and sear latch in relation to the sear. When the trigger is pulled, the end of 57 acts as a fulcrum, further lowering the trigger and latch until the sear is released and the gun fires.

Screw 57 is a tough customer! If too far in, the gun will not cock as the sear cannot engage the latch. It's also possible for the sear engagement to be so slight that the gun fires inadvertently. But if too far out, there is so much friction in the sear that the trigger will not return to its starting point, when pulled back partly and then released. A “sticky” trigger is annoying and potentially dangerous.

Screw 58 sets the second stage point, by acting as a secondary fulcrum. When the trigger is pulled, the end of 58 contacts a fixed plate, reducing the trigger’'s mechanical advantage and thus increasing pull weight. If 58 is turned too far in, there is no “first stage”; just a short–, heavy pull. If 58 is too far out, there is no “second
stage”–; just a long, light pull. Either extreme produces an unpredictable release point.

So the proper sequence for adjustment is:
1. Turn 58 OUT, until there is no second stage.
2. Turn 57 IN or OUT, until the length of pull suits you (remember, longer pull = more sear
engagement and greater safety margin), and checking to see that the blade returns if
released before firing.
3. Turn 58 back IN, until the second stage is felt just before the trigger releases.

Other notes: 

  1. BE CAREFUL WHEN ADJUSTING THIS GUN! It does not tolerate mistakes.
  2. If you move screw 57, you will always have to re-adjust 58 to re-set the stage lengths.
  3. On my gun the little plastic gizmos ("“trigger set screw lock nut 56") which keep the adjuster screws from slipping, deteriorated over time. They might be replaced with small O-rings or something similar.
  4. You can take the gun’'s trigger module out of the action, and set the sear by pushing its lower leg forward until caught by the sear latch. This is useful for studying the mechanism, or for rough adjustments. BUT, there is a lot of "slack" in the system when doing this; the trigger will act differently when under full spring tension. To be safe, make final adjustments while actually cocking and firing the rifle. 
  5. The trigger module is held in the receiver tube by two cross pins. When the action is cocked, there is no tension on these. Normally not a problem as they are restrained by the stock, BUT if you cock the action while out of the wood, the pins can actually FALL OUT! At this point everything is held together by the SEAR ONLY; pulling the trigger would launch the trigger block and spring out the back at high speed!
    [/LIST=1]

 
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Thank you for your terrific insight to this gun / what I found was out the stock trigger was fine but when screwed into the stock it was horrible with no first stage at all/ I looked inside of stock to find trigger assembly had bedded itself into the wood making it slack the stock is a custom thumb hole not original/ I've packed base of stock too trigger assembly for clearance and now all good /I've shot some groups today at 20mtrs more or less pellet on pellet with falcon accuracy plus/ over the chrono its giving just under 7ft lb not quite sure if it's under powered or if it's a 10 mtr target gun / I dont want to change spring incase it breaks lugs of cylinder if the spring too stiff piston seal is brand new and so is breech seal/ any help regarding power level would be helpful/ I really just like to thank everyone for all the help and knowledge as your help is keeping a nice vintage gun from the scrap bin best regards paul
 
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Try sending a message to member @Tominco.
He did a resto on one a while back and he may remember the sealing ring size.

Failing that, a message to member @MDriskill may yield an answer. He is a sharp cookie and possesses quite a bit of detailed knowledge about older German spring guns.

Do you have the old seal?
There is also a spacer ring present behind the breech sealing O ring on the factory schematic, its importance may or may not be critical.
 
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For what it may be worth, D&L Airgun says the replacement is 8 X 2.5
dlairgun.com

Diana & Anschutz Breech Seal Part No. 300312

Diana & Original Breech Seal barrel washer 8 x 2.5 This spare fits the following models: Anschutz 335 Also: Diana Model 27 Diana Model 34 Diana Model 35 Diana Model 38 Diana Model 45 Diana Model 60 Diana Model 65 Diana Model 66 Diana Break Barrel Models (All Current) Also: Gecado Model 27...
dlairgun.com dlairgun.com
 
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In the mid-1980s I was the editor of a UK magazine, Sporting Air Rifle, which allowed me to play with and modify airguns to my heart's content, and get paid for the articles I wrote about it. At the time, Webley had launched their Vulcan with a PTFE piston seal, and I made and retro fitted PTFE seals to a number of rifles, among them, the Anschutz 335, and boosted the muzzle energy, with no other modification, by around 4 ft. lb., from 7 ft.lb. to over 11.

Nearly 40 years later, I cannot remember the dimensions, other than the seals were very shallow, as deep seals were inclined to go tight in the cylinder under continuous preload force.
 
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