Pretty sure they started doing that right after my ban, but not sure if that's still the case.
Anyone know if AAFTA still gives 2% wiggle room on maximum muzzle energies?
- Thread starter AirNGasman
- Start date
2023 Rules. Per the 3rd bullet point 2% still exists, all good.....
S. Chronograph testing is required for all days of competition at all Grand Prix matches. Shooters will be
allowed to check the Energy Level compliance of their guns prior to the start of the match and adjust
as needed. No adjustments can be made once the match has begun. The Match Director reserves
the right to chronograph guns before, during, or after the match.
●The shooter arrives at the designated Chronograph station and hands the Marshal his/her
scorecard marked with the make and weight of the pellet they are shooting.
● At the Marshal’s discretion, they may inspect the pellet and/or weigh one or more of the
pellets on a calibrated scale.
● Velocity readings may exceed by a maximum of a 2% margin to account for variances
between chronographs.
●The shooter has a maximum of 3 attempts to record a passing shot. If after 3 attempts a
passing shot isn’t recorded, the shooter will be disqualified from the match.
●The Marshal records the final reading in the shooter's scorecard and signs the card.
S. Chronograph testing is required for all days of competition at all Grand Prix matches. Shooters will be
allowed to check the Energy Level compliance of their guns prior to the start of the match and adjust
as needed. No adjustments can be made once the match has begun. The Match Director reserves
the right to chronograph guns before, during, or after the match.
●The shooter arrives at the designated Chronograph station and hands the Marshal his/her
scorecard marked with the make and weight of the pellet they are shooting.
● At the Marshal’s discretion, they may inspect the pellet and/or weigh one or more of the
pellets on a calibrated scale.
● Velocity readings may exceed by a maximum of a 2% margin to account for variances
between chronographs.
●The shooter has a maximum of 3 attempts to record a passing shot. If after 3 attempts a
passing shot isn’t recorded, the shooter will be disqualified from the match.
●The Marshal records the final reading in the shooter's scorecard and signs the card.
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Just understand it is an event ALLOWANCE, and 12 or 20 fpe MAX RULES still stand.
If your getting tech checked over the RULE allowed maximum per class, as a match director if finding out this is a trend in a competitors practice ... NOT HAPPY and would forward this conduct along to other MD's or AAFTA BOG.
Just sayin ...
If your getting tech checked over the RULE allowed maximum per class, as a match director if finding out this is a trend in a competitors practice ... NOT HAPPY and would forward this conduct along to other MD's or AAFTA BOG.
Just sayin ...
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Is the 2% divergence due to typical chronograph to chronograph variation as determined by experimentation/testing or just an educated guess?
-Marty
-Marty
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So it's 2% of the velocity, not the fpe, right? Because an 8.44 gr pellet at 800 fps is 11.997 fpe. Give 2% to the velocity and you get 816 fps, which is 12.481 fpe. However, 2% of 12 fpe would be .24, or 808 fps. Do they also give 2% to the pellet weight due to variations in "calibrated" scales?
Actually, I did the math and adding 2% to a 8.44 gr pellet has very little effect on the fpe.
Note: These are just math questions, not ethical questions.
Actually, I did the math and adding 2% to a 8.44 gr pellet has very little effect on the fpe.
Note: These are just math questions, not ethical questions.
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5 fps was .86flb on 13.4's
Went from 20.88 to 20.02
So that should be legal right ?
Never mind went ahead and dropped to 19.3. Guess tomorrow I will see how it affects the POI .
Went from 20.88 to 20.02
So that should be legal right ?
Never mind went ahead and dropped to 19.3. Guess tomorrow I will see how it affects the POI .
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To be fair a lot of the springer guys are pretty far below the max that it really doesn't matter. My 97K is sitting at 735-740fps with 8.44s. I just setup my LGU for FT last weekend and unmodified, I'm nearly dead on 800fps with the same pellet. Elevation and temperture could easily push that gun over the legal limit.
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You are correct that a damaged pellet or chronograph variance could cause your velocity to exceed the 2% limit. As a shooter and knowing the rules, it is best to plan for this and allow some margin to the max limit, and make sure you don't shoot discrepant pellets over a chronograph. The 2% allowance is in place to accommodate those kinds of variances from shooters; AAFTA realized the issues and granted some tolerance. Most match directors are open to listening to your specific issues with why you are over the limit +2%, but as a competitor you are responsible to be within the rules that are established for all.
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Not sure I understand this 2% variance. Why not just publish the 2% over velocities as the max and if you are over, you are disqualified. Of course you could do the same thing with the 20 ft/lb and 12 ft/lb limits and make it real simple. People will just tune to a safe level below the limit. If you live on the edge, sometimes you get cut.
Tim
Tim
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In my opinion the variance isn't there for the gamblers or to make it easier for cheaters, but it's there b/c there truly is variation from one chrono to the next. I saw the same gun (consistent and dependable match-winning gun) show three different fps values from three different chronos one time, back to back to back. One of them put the gun JUUUUSSSTTTTT barely legal, with 10.34s at 934. Another showed 915, and the third had it in the 898 range. This gun never has a 35+fps spread over the whole fill, much less over a handful of shots taken right after each other. My point? Different chronos display different values.
Whoever was on the BOG at the time this was added into the rulebook must have thought that getting DQ'd b/c the testing chrono at a match reads 20-30fps faster than a shooters personal chrono is a sorry reason to get DQ'd. I agree with that. (edit: this is why it's a smart idea to be 15-25fps less than max legal, per home/personal chrono).
Anybody trying to cheat at a field target match is a true loser, regardless of how they score that day.
Whoever was on the BOG at the time this was added into the rulebook must have thought that getting DQ'd b/c the testing chrono at a match reads 20-30fps faster than a shooters personal chrono is a sorry reason to get DQ'd. I agree with that. (edit: this is why it's a smart idea to be 15-25fps less than max legal, per home/personal chrono).
Anybody trying to cheat at a field target match is a true loser, regardless of how they score that day.
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There is still an absolute cutoff, it is just 2% higher than the stated maximums for the classes. You can still be DQ'ed for being over. Do you think some people will set their guns to 925-930 fps with the 10.34 pellets? I bet they will.
Absolutely agree with setting up the gun with a healthy safety margin. I keep mine a good 25 fps lower than the maximum and never have an issue.
Absolutely agree with setting up the gun with a healthy safety margin. I keep mine a good 25 fps lower than the maximum and never have an issue.
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"Anybody trying to cheat at a field target match is a true loser, regardless of how they score that day."
You'd be surprised at how many do.
FWIW, the individual responsible for the 2% wiggle-room was exactly that. Before the wiggle-room change, he knowingly shot over power-limit (as confirmed by me and no less than three others), but said "it's too much trouble to go into the pistol again to reduce the power". Hence, he successfully petitioned the BoG for the wiggle-room, to legitimize his CONSCIOUS CHEATING.
And in a twist of poetic-justice, I now benefit from his self-serving action for the same reason he took it... but without cheating (now)!
My latest Huma-regged FT gun shoots consistently above 20 FP, but just as consistently 4-5 FPS below "the new normal".
Question my integrity if you like. But if you knew "the rest of the story", you'd realize MY integrity remains intact.
You'd be surprised at how many do.
FWIW, the individual responsible for the 2% wiggle-room was exactly that. Before the wiggle-room change, he knowingly shot over power-limit (as confirmed by me and no less than three others), but said "it's too much trouble to go into the pistol again to reduce the power". Hence, he successfully petitioned the BoG for the wiggle-room, to legitimize his CONSCIOUS CHEATING.
And in a twist of poetic-justice, I now benefit from his self-serving action for the same reason he took it... but without cheating (now)!
My latest Huma-regged FT gun shoots consistently above 20 FP, but just as consistently 4-5 FPS below "the new normal".Question my integrity if you like. But if you knew "the rest of the story", you'd realize MY integrity remains intact.
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Ron, I wasn't implying that your intent behind asking the question was to cheat. I was just making a general statement that cheating at something as inconsequential (in the grand scheme of things) as a friendly field target game amongst friends says a lot about the character of an individual.
As for your gun being close to the limit but definitely legal (as far as you know, relative to your own chrono)....everybody shoots through the same chronograph on match day. The great equalizer I suppose.... ie if the testing chrono is reading higher than average, multiple shooters would point that out and it would be addressed.
2% allowance for variation is reasonable, in my opinion. That 2% should keep a guy under the limit from being disqualified, even if they're just barely under. But somebody up around 22 or more fpe (not even trying to play within the rules) is gonna get the big ole DQ, as they should.
For example, 933fps with 10.34s is 19.99fpe. 2% of 933 is 18.7fps, putting the limit to almost 952. If a guy is trying to get away with a gun shooting faster than 950 with 10.34s.....well there's a problem.
As for your gun being close to the limit but definitely legal (as far as you know, relative to your own chrono)....everybody shoots through the same chronograph on match day. The great equalizer I suppose.... ie if the testing chrono is reading higher than average, multiple shooters would point that out and it would be addressed.
2% allowance for variation is reasonable, in my opinion. That 2% should keep a guy under the limit from being disqualified, even if they're just barely under. But somebody up around 22 or more fpe (not even trying to play within the rules) is gonna get the big ole DQ, as they should.
For example, 933fps with 10.34s is 19.99fpe. 2% of 933 is 18.7fps, putting the limit to almost 952. If a guy is trying to get away with a gun shooting faster than 950 with 10.34s.....well there's a problem.
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A very simple yet direct Match Director statement of the base rules and there reason for should suffice.
It is after all the leadership of any club, event etc .. that enforces the law of sportsmanship for the game.
Sure folks want to shoot higher power air rifles at these matches, we get inquires all season long having to spell out the FT game as it is played.
and ... we loose a lot of potential new shooters because we are non bending to maximum allowed power
It is after all the leadership of any club, event etc .. that enforces the law of sportsmanship for the game.
Sure folks want to shoot higher power air rifles at these matches, we get inquires all season long having to spell out the FT game as it is played.
and ... we loose a lot of potential new shooters because we are non bending to maximum allowed power
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