Are we doing hunter class wrong?

[Sqwirl57]

What do you guys think the average shooter should be able to do with an Avenger and UTG scope on an average 60 shot course? 50-75% hit rate?

What if you added a handicap system to HFT similar to golf? Like you get bonus points for every $200 under the top equipment cost?

 

[scotton]

While examining my own motivations, this may have been a thinly veiled attempt to A) increase the mag limit to 24x and B) make everyone sell their Sightrons so I can get one for cheap.

But it has been interesting to see the arguments for the equipment race. Let's be honest, we are a bunch of old(er) men playing with toys. There will always be an equipment race. We could turn marbles into an equipment race.

I think if there is ever a focus on growing the sport, the sensible thing to do would be to add an Intro class. (I went on for a bit about an intro class but then I came to a realization)

Scrap the intro class, what we should be doing is encouraging new shooters to shoot unlimited for their first few shoots. They can use whatever equipment they want including range finders and see what they like and what class they would like to focus on.

There, I fixed field target. Man, that was easy.

 

[beerthief]

"No matter how the USA changes the rules of hunter division down the road, no one will be happy on any side. Its always been and will be a we vs them. WFTF, vs Open vs Hunter. Shooters in each class seem to think that the guys from the other class has an advantage. ......BC "

i have heard this time and time again . and also agree " lets all just go out and have fun ."

 

[beerthief]

"Scrap the intro class, what we should be doing is encouraging new shooters to shoot unlimited for their first few shoots. They can use whatever equipment they want including range finders and see what they like and what class they would like to focus on. "scotton

This is a good idea , with the exception of a power limit to save target damage

 

[OkAirgunner]

I think a restricted class would be great. Similarly, I enjoyed the challenge of them but gave up on springers for field target due to the lack of participants.

This is why I moved to PCP not really any other reason. I love shooting Piston but last year I was looking at going to nationals and when I looked at the registration there was not a single hunter piston registered. I believe that the piston guns require a different level of understanding, and many will not take the time or put the energy into figuring out piston guns.

 

[beerthief]

This is why I moved to PCP not really any other reason. I love shooting Piston but last year I was looking at going to nationals and when I looked at the registration there was not a single hunter piston registered. I believe that the piston guns require a different level of understanding, and many will not take the time or put the energy into figuring out piston guns.

i came from PCP to piston . Now i am thinking of selling some of the PCPs , maybe ALL ?

 

[OkAirgunner]

My friend (frenemy) Mark posted something in a thread for a new shooter asking for recommendations and it got me thinking.
Here's what Mark said:

I'm not calling Mark out for his comment, it's very valid for the current state of hunter class. But it made me wonder, are we doing this wrong?

The original intention of the magnification limit for hunter class was so people didn't have to have a high end scope to be competitive. I wonder if the fact that you "need" a $800+ scope to shoot hunter class competitively is part of what's holding back the growth of our sport.

I think a more level playing field could be established if we went to a 24x hard magnification limit. So you could have a scope that goes up to maximum of 24x and shoot at 24x, but the scope couldn't be higher than 24x. No more 40x, 50x or 60x scopes in hunter class.

This isn't going to happen because almost every top hunter class shooter is shooting a big Sightron and they don't want to give them up. But I think that would make hunter class fun again and help "level the playing field", not to mention all of the old man fights we would get to be a part of that go along with rule changes to hunter class. Although the fact that I posted this here and not at the other site should show that I want to talk about this, not fight about it.

Funny side note: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is a hunter class shooter on the BOG. I mean, Jeff occasionally shoots hunter class at monthly matches, but I think he's being ironic. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this, I think everyone on the BOG is well respected (at least by me) and we voted them in. But maybe in the future we could establish seats on the board for each class so that everyone feels represented. Just a thought. I mean, we are such a tiny sport, eventually we will all be on the board at some point.

I would like to explain my comment earlier that Scott has mentioned. My point really is that you need to pay attention to the glass you put on your gun as much as you put in the gun. I have shot and won with a friends Marauder with a old Hawke sidewinder on it, that I not never shot before the morning of the match. My personal belief is that most decent guns out there will compete as long as they can shoot a consistent speed with decent accuracy and a good trigger. I would like to add that you must be able to be confident at ranging the targets, close and far targets, to be competitive. So I do not believe that you must have a Sightron to be competitive but I do believe you must be confident in the ability of your gun and scope so you must not focus entirely on the gun but to also pay attention to the scope that you put on your gun.

I will say that as someone else has stated in this tread, the largest group of participants that I have found when looking at results all over the country is easily the pcp hunter class. This is evidence that there is nothing to fix. But as I have told many newer participants the key to hunter class is to know the distance, most guns are very capable to compete as long as you know the distance you are shooting.

One last thing I have never thought of Scott as a anything other than a friend, I have always appreciated his fun outlook towards Field Target.
Always remember to enjoy your time shooting.
Mark

 

[Solo1]

I don’t think throwing a new guy in unlimited with the guys that normally shoot the highest score is the a good idea. I think a better idea is to make sure the new guy shoots with the right person, someone who won’t care about dropping a couple points from normal, someone who will help and encourage the fun side of the sport and someone who will cheat a bit helping the new guy feel good at the end of the match. What else is going to bring people back - feeling good about the day -or feeling like this will never work?

 

[Sqwirl57]

I don’t think throwing a new guy in unlimited with the guys that normally shoot the highest score is the a good idea. I think a better idea is to make sure the new guy shoots with the right person, someone who won’t care about dropping a couple points from normal, someone who will help and encourage the fun side of the sport and someone who will cheat a bit helping the new guy feel good at the end of the match. What else is going to bring people back - feeling good about the day -or feeling like this will never work?

My first match was with Hector. I shot terrible but from the start he told me to be happy with anything over a 5/60. Nobody shoots great the first time out because the game is never what they prepared for. I ended up shooting like 15 and felt great about myself. On top of that Hector is just such a nice guy and spent the day giving me pointers and tips and even laid out a practice routine so I'd do better the next match (which I did!)

 

[isledweller]

My first match was with Hector. I shot terrible but from the start he told me to be happy with anything over a 5/60. Nobody shoots great the first time out because the game is never what they prepared for. I ended up shooting like 15 and felt great about myself. On top of that Hector is just such a nice guy and spent the day giving me pointers and tips and even laid out a practice routine so I'd do better the next match (which I did!)

So sorry you had to be with Hector your first match! Seriously...............you couldn't have been paired up with a better person!!! Hector has been paired up quite a few new people over the years and always makes them feel at ease!

Your path is the one I try to instill on new shooters. Come to a match, you will not clean the course your first time out. If your rifle is capable of 1" or less groups at 50 yards, you have enough to compete, look around and learn from others. See what your weaknesses are and continue to learn and practice. After some time, then decide later if you need or want to upgrade things.

 

[drsquall]

What do you guys think the average shooter should be able to do with an Avenger and UTG scope on an average 60 shot course? 50-75% hit rate?

What if you added a handicap system to HFT similar to golf? Like you get bonus points for every $200 under the top equipment cost?

I have talked to Paul Porch and he said that the avenger right out of the box is an excellent gun and shoots awesome. His only caveat was to put it in a wooden stock. He has had one setup for over a year and said it will compete with any gun.

Jon

 

[Solo1]

I have talked to Paul Porch and he said that the avenger right out of the box is an excellent gun and shoots awesome. His only caveat was to put it in a wooden stock. He has had one setup for over a year and said it will compete with any gun.

Jon

But you still need a decent scope so you’re looking at $1000 to be somewhat competitive if not a bit more. Its the same with a revere but $500 more yet! I’ve shot a revere against my redwolf and the wolf has an edge (weight and adjustable) but the revere is just as accurate.

 

[Sqwirl57]

Define "competitive". You can easily run middle of the pack or better with a $150 UTG Swat at most matches

 

[beerthief]

I shot this with a $111.00 UGT bugbuster (9.5 inch long compact)

 

[Solo1]

I shot this with a $111.00 UGT bugbuster (9.5 inch long compact) View attachment 381693

Indeed you can use a $50 scope to shoot 1 target well in ft you need a scope that ranges well to have any hope of scoring well. I have a 4-16 utg scope on my anchutz 9015 for indoor target work cause it doesn’t range nearly as well as my athlon argos on my ghost

 

[Solo1]

You know i have nothing against the guy trying to shoot ft on the less expensive side and enjoy it i mean thats what its all about having fun ! There are no big prizes mostly just bragging rights. I don’t think some of you guys realize the work and difficulty of doing very well at ft and also having fun!

 

[beerthief]

ok , we were talking about getting people interested in FT . so if a person can afford a $300 PCP and a UGT scope to start out with . Sure it won't win matches , sure it will not range as well and probably will get a score near the bottom . But what it will do is get that person out shooting FT . so they shoot 4 matches this year scoring in the bottom 5
so for xmas they get a bottom line Athlon ($229) next year he scores in the middle of the pack. and so on.

 

[Franklink]

ok , we were talking about getting people interested in FT . so if a person can afford a $300 PCP and a UGT scope to start out with . Sure it won't win matches , sure it will not range as well and probably will get a score near the bottom . But what it will do is get that person out shooting FT . so they shoot 4 matches this year scoring in the bottom 5
so for xmas they get a bottom line Athlon ($229) next year he scores in the middle of the pack. and so on.

That seems a typical progression, and also sounds like there is a strong and definite correlation of equipment to scores.

 

[Sqwirl57]

That seems a typical progression, and also sounds like there is a strong and definite correlation of equipment to scores.

The other and more likely scenario would be that the years worth of experience bumped the scores higher than the new equipment did.

 

[drsquall]

But you still need a decent scope so you’re looking at $1000 to be somewhat competitive if not a bit more. Its the same with a revere but $500 more yet! I’ve shot a revere against my redwolf and the wolf has an edge (weight and adjustable) but the revere is just as accurate.

Paul said for the the money for open or wftf the vector sentinel 8-32 he likes and said to him it's better than the hawkes. I don't know never looked through one.

Jon