Are we doing hunter class wrong?

[beerthief]

i think one of the biggest problems is the distance to a match . This will fix itself if the game grows . For the present i need to travel a minimum of 2.5 hours (@70+mph ) to get to a match or monthly practise . Other matches are 6 to 10 hours away .
Home practice , i use gamo targets and some "real " targets that were given to me. i just walk and set the targets down any distance not measured . to reset i walk and reset , good exercise. edit : if you use the strings to reset you need to stake the targets down and keep the strings straight , easier to walk and les time consuming .

 

[AirNGasman]

"This isn't going to happen because almost every top hunter class shooter is shooting a big Sightron and they don't want to give them up."

While I'm (obviously) ill-qualified to speak for top hunter class shooters, sometimes I'm able to hold my own with my preferred vintage V-16 scope. It maxes out at 16X, is front-focusing , only 16 ounces and 13" long. Being a petite little weakling, and also quite weak-minded, I find celestial-quality (and sized, and PRICED) telescopes not only too massive for my physicality, but beyond my fiscal grasp. Not to mention my tender aesthetic sensibilities.

I suppose I could sell one of my (hundreds of obscenely expense) airguns to fund a SIghtron S3, but then would have to exercise enough to compromise my petite, cute little figure to use it. I'm not sure it's worth all that physical effort (WORK) and expense ($$$)... just to graduate from last to next to last place; when I do, occasionally, don't finish in last place already.

 

[SqrlHntr]

No matter what the rifle or scope, as technology advances and airguns and pellets get more and more accurate and consistent, the courses will almost have to become harder and/or more rules, classes and restrictions be introduced. Thats what I see as the bigger elephant. Same thing happened to golf. Courses 30 yrs ago were slower, shorter and required more than driver and a wedge. Ball and club tech rapidly advanced l, the rules were left unchecked and to compensate, the turf industry, PGA and USGA made courses way faster and much longer to keep pro’s from scoring 20+ under par and making a 300yd drive a basic 3 wood shot. To put it in perspective, modern pga fairways are faster on a stimp meter than the greens in the early 80’s. Think about that. Jack Nickalus was putting on greens slower than todays fairways, even on daily fee courses! Sorry for the golf analogy, but it seems to fit.

I don’t think we are doing Hunter class wrong, tech has simply caught up. I do think AAFTA overall needs to look at how to grow the sport and help clubs start and/or promote it more in their areas. Hard to get a typical airgun shooter into a sub 20 fpe rig when the vast majority sold is .22 or above. Maybe just add a class to 35 fpe and go a bit further as an American Hunter class?

 

[Franklink]

Maybe......go a bit further as an American Hunter class?

Great suggestion, but no need to up the power from 20fpe.....an example:

Rex J puts on the Southwest Airgunners FT matches in Eastern AZ/Western NM. About 4 years ago he piggybacked off the "chicken little" silhouette game by having a bunch of 1/5 sized silhouettes made. The idea was to have a fun side match on Friday evenings of ft weekends, for those of us camping the whole weekend. We shoot standard ram, chicken, pig, chicken but he added a second chicken for each stage. Chickens are roughly a little smaller than a 50cent piece. We set them at 40, 50, 60 and 70 yards those first couple years. And the relevant kicker: use your sub 20fpe gun and any legal field target position to shoot the silhouettes. We had perfect 40/40 scores (shoot through twice for total score) those first couple years, and enough of them that this most recent summer we started doing 50, 60, 70, 80 yards instead. The perfect scores meant that some of us were hitting those chickens at 70 yards 4/4 times.

In summary, today's sub20fpe field target guns are more than accurate enough to stretch the max distance past 55 yards. 70 would be about the limit though, as I hit a ram @80 in July and it didn't have enough oomph to knock it off the target rack, and therefore may not have enough for left to knock down a typical reset target. We never have had that issue with 70 yards.

Just another thought for the discussion.

 

[SqrlHntr]

Great suggestion, but no need to up the power from 20fpe.....an example:

Rex J puts on the Southwest Airgunners FT matches in Eastern AZ/Western NM. About 4 years ago he piggybacked off the "chicken little" silhouette game by having a bunch of 1/5 sized silhouettes made. The idea was to have a fun side match on Friday evenings of ft weekends, for those of us camping the whole weekend. We shoot standard ram, chicken, pig, chicken but he added a second chicken for each stage. Chickens are roughly a little smaller than a 50cent piece. We set them at 40, 50, 60 and 70 yards those first couple years. And the relevant kicker: use your sub 20fpe gun and any legal field target position to shoot the silhouettes. We had perfect 40/40 scores (shoot through twice for total score) those first couple years, and enough of them that this most recent summer we started doing 50, 60, 70, 80 yards instead. The perfect scores meant that some of us were hitting those chickens at 70 yards 4/4 times.

In summary, today's sub20fpe field target guns are more than accurate enough to stretch the max distance past 55 yards. 70 would be about the limit though, as I hit a ram @80 in July and it didn't have enough oomph to knock it off the target rack, and therefore may not have enough for left to knock down a typical reset target. We never have had that issue with 70 yards.

Just another thought for the discussion.

Kinda like the silhouette paddles made for TFT..

 

[Kdog]

"Maybe just add a class to 35 fpe and go a bit further as an American Hunter class?"

I'd hate to see how beatup these Field Targets would be exposing them to 35ft lbs. Especially the close targets. Alot of these targets are made for a certain ft lb. Some targets are made for extreme FT lbs but these targets are 3-4x as much as other targets we can buy that work for our current 20 ft lb limit.

 

[scotton]

Maybe just add a class to 35 fpe and go a bit further as an American Hunter class?

We've got that, its called EFT. Targets designed for 30+ fpe don't work very well at 12fpe, so trying to blend EFT and FT would alienate the springers and WFTF shooters.

 

[SqrlHntr]

"Maybe just add a class to 35 fpe and go a bit further as an American Hunter class?"

I'd hate to see how beatup these Field Targets would be exposing them to 35ft lbs. Especially the close targets. Alot of these targets are made for a certain ft lb. Some targets are made for extreme FT lbs but these targets are 3-4x as much as other targets we can buy that work for our current 20 ft lb limit.

Well sure and the targets are just like the golf analogy i mentioned earlier. Improvements on targets have kept up with the climate and demand. The point was there are more untapped airgun potential competitors to attract that are chambering .22’s or larger over .177’s. I was suggesting the sport adapt somehow to attract more shooters.

@scotton SOME targets. Some are Adjustable 12-125 fpe and they go down at 7-9 fpe ( 20fpe rifle at 100yds) fully adaptable.

 

[beerthief]

"Maybe just add a class to 35 fpe and go a bit further as an American Hunter class?"
Why not just make targets out AR500 steel and invite all the powder burners with .303 's ?

 

[OkAirgunner]

Spoken like a true Glass Queen. And I only act friendly to you because I want to make you feel bad about beating me. Once I beat you, I will probably never speak to you again. Damn Okie.

And good luck in New Mexico if you are headed out there. If not, hope to see you at the ASC next week.

LOL
No Scott I am going to be at Arlington with my TX most likely maybe my RAW. Both my TX's were not shooting well in July so I have rebuilt both and the old one is still not right. I did shoot the Mk3 today and it seems to be behaving again.
See you Saturday.
Mark

 

[scotton]

LOL
No Scott I am going to be at Arlington with my TX most likely maybe my RAW. Both my TX's were not shooting well in July so I have rebuilt both and the old one is still not right. I did shoot the Mk3 today and it seems to be behaving again.
See you Saturday.
Mark

If you bring your TX, I would suggest you go in the kitchen and find the drawer where you keep your "eye of the tiger"s and bring one of them as well.

 

[MilDot]

RC car racing went through similar complaints and issues years ago. People complained about the cost, equity in equipment and ways to break apart or change successful classes. Shortly after many RC tracks folded due to lack of participation.

 

[MilDot]

Sorry I am late to this discussion, however I have found it to be one of the most interesting and useful discussions I have found here at AGN. I am relatively new to airgun shooting but have been fortunate enough to have found FT shooting with several other interested shooters with a varied amount of experience. I learned by listening to, and shooting with them in addition to the people that I was eventually squadded with in my first matches. Seeing a full range of budget through high end equipment was helpful and I learned the difference between springer and PCP shooting, both from a hands on perspective (trying other people’s equipment) and from a financial perspective. I learned that it does not take a whole lot of $$ to get started and that the top end cost for a kit can be quite expensive. It was up to me to choose how I wanted to enter into the sport. However, I also learned that the the most enjoyable part of my experience was sharing time and knowledge with the people in addition to focusing on the mechanics of shooting and in competing first with myself. Winning was not the ultimate objective. Rather, it was learning that the only pressure is in the gun!

So my point is that if we want to interest new people in the sport AND keep them with us, we need to focus on the quality of the experience of shooting and in improving, not is just getting the highest score. I’ve also discovered the importance of finding mentors that help new shooters get into the sport both by sharing their knowledge and experience in addition to their time in helping new shooters in developing good habits and educating them honestly about the advantages/disadvantages associated with the vast range of equipment that is available today. The service offered by these people is immeasurable!

And finally, I’ve found that having a number of shooting opportunities close by to be a game changer. Living here in the northeast, we have many people living in close proximity. This makes airguns vs. firearms a practical alternative due to space restrictions. This also provides an opportunity for clubs located 1 to 2 hours apart to attract their own “local” members and for them to easily travel from week to week to other nearby clubs to shoot matches. By making it easy to get into the sport, adopting an open and nurturing environment in which to learn and develop, and providing easy access for people to meet and shoot with others is the key to growing HFT and maintaining people’s interest in the sport. Keep it fun and they will come.

I would like to thank all of the people that I have had the chance to shoot with at a match. I have enjoyed my time with you and have learned something from each and every match I’ve shot. I am also grateful for the fellowship offered by my local club and to all the other members of the clubs that formed the New England Field Target League (nefieldtargetleague.org) this season. For this part of the country, I think we have stumbled upon a “recpie” that will continue to develop HFT in the coming years.

 

[CurtisNelson]

As it happens, my big brother accepted my invitation last week to shoot with me at the Arlington gun club this Sat. Putting much thought into how I can make it a fun experience for him (no, 5 out of 60 is not fun for anyone) I had decided that we will shoot unlimited class "Hunter Style". I will make sure he has the correct range to the target (laser rangefinder), an accurate dope card and an accurate (enough) rifle (mine). We will see how quickly he can catch on to using Parallax to range find. We will laser all 30 targets if need be. He protested that he can't see well enough to shoot anymore, but I assured him that he is age appropriate (62) for this shooting group. I will assure him that anything better than 5/60 is outstanding for his 1st time shooting a modern pellet gun (especially since the course will be set up by a sadist) and we will celebrate each target hit.

Wish us a joyful day. (and a few mulligans)

 

[AirShot]

Its 100% the shooter. FT killzones are 2-4 MOA. Almost every gun out there can handle that. It comes down to the shooter.

If it were strictky the shooter, then put a fixed four power scope on and see how they compete against a guy with 44 obj lens scope that can rangefind. Better equipment means all equipment not just the rifle.

 

[Sqwirl57]

If it were strictky the shooter, then put a fixed four power scope on and see how they compete against a guy with 44 obj lens scope that can rangefind. Better equipment means all equipment not just the rifle.

I shot an indoor FT match last year with an FWB Sport using iron sights and placed second. Granted it was only 22yds I was still up against Daystates and M3s with $2k optics on them.

Obviously more APPROPRIATE equipment will net you better scores. A fixed 4x is not appropriate equipment. My argument here is that MONEY doesn't need to be spent on high end equipment to do it. You can find plenty of budget priced 16x scopes that will do the job fine and can put up excellent scores in Field Target.

Edit: I lied. Went back to check the scores from that match. I tied for second with a D34 and a fixed 4x RWS scope on top. My FWB with irons tied for 6th (3 points behind #1)

 

[MilDot]

As it happens, my big brother accepted my invitation last week to shoot with me at the Arlington gun club this Sat. Putting much thought into how I can make it a fun experience for him (no, 5 out of 60 is not fun for anyone) I had decided that we will shoot unlimited class "Hunter Style". I will make sure he has the correct range to the target (laser rangefinder), an accurate dope card and an accurate (enough) rifle (mine). We will see how quickly he can catch on to using Parallax to range find. We will laser all 30 targets if need be. He protested that he can't see well enough to shoot anymore, but I assured him that he is age appropriate (62) for this shooting group. I will assure him that anything better than 5/60 is outstanding for his 1st time shooting a modern pellet gun (especially since the course will be set up by a sadist) and we will celebrate each hit on the communist targets like only cold warriors can.

Wish us a joyful day. (and a few mulligans)

I just took a new shooter to his first match last weekend in Palmer, MA. He has been practicing with me for several weeks and had developed some understanding of range finding and holdovers and was armed with a good dope sheet. However, he had little experience in ranging targets in a match setting and in selecting a proper holdover for each target. So I assured him that I would shoot each lane first and tell him the ranges to each target that I estimated. Then, he would follow and range each target himself and compare it to my measurement. Then we would discuss his selection of a proper holdover before each shot. The result was a respectable 28/60 but more importantly, our new shooter had a great time and indicated that he learned a lot. Next time, it will be him measuring the ranges himself and talking through his holdover selection with me. We will see how he does. But most importantly, we should now have a new and enthusiastic shooter to add to our ranks!

 

[scotton]

As it happens, my big brother accepted my invitation last week to shoot with me at the Arlington gun club this Sat. Putting much thought into how I can make it a fun experience for him (no, 5 out of 60 is not fun for anyone) I had decided that we will shoot unlimited class "Hunter Style". I will make sure he has the correct range to the target (laser rangefinder), an accurate dope card and an accurate (enough) rifle (mine). We will see how quickly he can catch on to using Parallax to range find. We will laser all 30 targets if need be. He protested that he can't see well enough to shoot anymore, but I assured him that he is age appropriate (62) for this shooting group. I will assure him that anything better than 5/60 is outstanding for his 1st time shooting a modern pellet gun (especially since the course will be set up by a sadist) and we will celebrate each hit on the communist targets like only cold warriors can.

Wish us a joyful day. (and a few mulligans)

Looking forward to having you and your brother, Curtis. And, yes, the course was set up by a sadist who isn't even going to be there. But, he left the kneeling lane off of the course sheet this month (probably took a bribe from Ron).
If you want to shoot hunter, you can just make sure your brother shoots second. Or shoot unlimited, whatever floats your boat.

 

[MysticalDragon]

The best things we can do is TALK to people about Field Target and have a spare rig to let them use. Also, some window stickers for your car? My Oregon State Championship tee shirt gets attention every time I wear it!

This right here.

I got to experience this yesterday when I went to my first airgun range to start looking at them and ask questions. The hospitality was superb by many there. There were also many that did their own thing and werent as outgoing which is ok too. One guy let me shoot a couple of his rifles. Then he asked if I had time to stay for the match. I'd planned on doing that anyway. He said if I wanted to shoot he would get out his aea510 for me to use. Well needless to say, with the encouragement of others telling me not to turn down the chance to shoot it, I did. It was hunter class I believe. I shot a 31 and went 2/4 on each of the standing and kneeling positions. I was pleased with the results and most of all had fun. The rifle and optic were greater than my skill level for sure. However at least I wasnt being held back by poor equipment. Granted there was a tie for first, both shooting daystate redwolfs. They were good shooters who had spent the time needed to hone their skills and then backed it with the equipment.

Now I'm looking at rifles and calibers I'd not considered before. I liked it better than punching holes in paper and the challenges.

Oh BTW as an Oregon native, GO DUCKS LOL

 

[MysticalDragon]

Sorry I am late to this discussion, however I have found it to be one of the most interesting and useful discussions I have found here at AGN. I am relatively new to airgun shooting but have been fortunate enough to have found FT shooting with several other interested shooters with a varied amount of experience. I learned by listening to, and shooting with them in addition to the people that I was eventually squadded with in my first matches. Seeing a full range of budget through high end equipment was helpful and I learned the difference between springer and PCP shooting, both from a hands on perspective (trying other people’s equipment) and from a financial perspective. I learned that it does not take a whole lot of $$ to get started and that the top end cost for a kit can be quite expensive. It was up to me to choose how I wanted to enter into the sport. However, I also learned that the the most enjoyable part of my experience was sharing time and knowledge with the people in addition to focusing on the mechanics of shooting and in competing first with myself. Winning was not the ultimate objective. Rather, it was learning that the only pressure is in the gun!

So my point is that if we want to interest new people in the sport AND keep them with us, we need to focus on the quality of the experience of shooting and in improving, not is just getting the highest score. I’ve also discovered the importance of finding mentors that help new shooters get into the sport both by sharing their knowledge and experience in addition to their time in helping new shooters in developing good habits and educating them honestly about the advantages/disadvantages associated with the vast range of equipment that is available today. The service offered by these people is immeasurable!

And finally, I’ve found that having a number of shooting opportunities close by to be a game changer. Living here in the northeast, we have many people living in close proximity. This makes airguns vs. firearms a practical alternative due to space restrictions. This also provides an opportunity for clubs located 1 to 2 hours apart to attract their own “local” members and for them to easily travel from week to week to other nearby clubs to shoot matches. By making it easy to get into the sport, adopting an open and nurturing environment in which to learn and develop, and providing easy access for people to meet and shoot with others is the key to growing HFT and maintaining people’s interest in the sport. Keep it fun and they will come.

I would like to thank all of the people that I have had the chance to shoot with at a match. I have enjoyed my time with you and have learned something from each and every match I’ve shot. I am also grateful for the fellowship offered by my local club and to all the other members of the clubs that formed the New England Field Target League (nefieldtargetleague.org) this season. For this part of the country, I think we have stumbled upon a “recpie” that will continue to develop HFT in the coming years.

This is so well said and so spot on with every point.

I can totally relate to this as I went to my first match on sunday. I went just to watch and ask questions. I was encouraged to participate in it. I was loaned everything I needed. I had a blast. Ive been encouraged to attend next months match. The same person even told me I could borrow his rifle again. I was shocked and humbled.

Its this kind of hospitality that I enjoyed and it made a complete newbie feel welcome. There were many who stayed to themselves which is ok., But the welcoming by so many of the others makes me want to come back.

They know the cost of getting started. If money was tight they encouraged me to look at an Avenge x or avenger and spend more on good glass since it can be moved to another rifle.