Tuning Artemis M22(M10 and M11), Problem with seardrag

[airgun14]

I have a big problem with sear drag on the hammerweight, trigger works fine, but the little stiff spring pushing that sear that cathes hammer is so stiff so I have to put some force to make the hammer slide, you can also see the sear marks on the hammer weight, removing that little spring makes the hammer weight go all the way without any resistance..

Have somebody notice this? I will try find some lighter spring.

 

[nervoustrig]

Are you seeing velocity fluctuations when shooting or is it just a problem with cocking? I can’t tell from your description.

Either way, you are probably on the right track with a lighter spring, just take care to not make it so light that it risks an accidental discharge (bump fire).

If the problem is velocity fluctuations and the trigger has an overtravel screw, back it off so the sear can swing fully free of the hammer. For example, that is a common problem with the basic Crosman triggers on models like the 2400KT. Being too aggressive with the overtravel adjustment will cause sear drag and the velocity will swing all over the place. 

I’m not familiar with the trigger group on your model but I’ve tweaked other SPA triggers (ex. PR600W, CP1-M) with a ball plunger in the trigger guard to serve as both a 2-stage wall just before the gun fires and an overtravel limiter. I was wary that sear drag would be a problem but it wasn’t. The same approach causes problems with the Crosman trigger. 

If you want to take it a step further, you can grind a relief channel in the hammer to keep the sear from dragging. You should be able to find example pictures of the Crosman hammer for guidance. It doesn’t have to be pretty to be effective.

 

[airgun14]

thanks, well I have not yet put this PCP together took it alla apart quick, I always do that, and go over everything.

I just noticed that the hammer is going with resistance when pushing it down after the sear has released.

I remember that the valve didnt quite open as it should due to that drag, it was more noticable with pressure around 200 bar, then it is better @150 bar and lower, YES Mine is unregulated ...... SO I want to remove that sear drag as much as possible

there is a tiny grubscrew just under, but it is so stuck I cant move it, Im afraid I will round the inside hole... I will have to make a go later on that grubscrew, If I can loosen it I can try to see what it does. But Im more into finding a lighter spring, not so easy as it is so tiny.

 

[airgun14]

Also, why do they make a trigger this way? they sure must have noticed that big sear drag.

 

[nervoustrig]

Why? My guess is it’s simple and cheap, safe from a liability perspective, and good enough for 95% of buyers. Folks like you and me who immediately tear a new gun apart to look for deficiencies are in the minority. I’ve certainly lamented the aforementioned abysmal Crosman trigger at times. SPA’s direct sear triggers are vastly better in my experience and they occupy a similar spot in the budget category. 


Regarding the tiny spring, I’m guessing it’s the same size as the one I’m familiar with in other SPA models. The flint spring in a common disposable lighter was a perfect size and spring rate. Just cut to length.

Apply heat to weaken the threadlocker on the grub screw. The first one I did, my butane torch wasn’t cooperating but a candle flame managed to do the trick. Some people use a soldering iron. 

 

[airgun14]

that grubscrew is only for when the second stage will begin , has nothing to do with the sear going back.... YES  I was also thinking of that spring in a lighter, will have to check that out.... The spring is 3mm in diameter, 6mm long , and coil-thickness is 0.5mm

 

[airgun14]

one thing: when you pull the trigger and hold it, shoudnt that sear that holds the hammer be able to push down? mine seems rubbery? and hard to push down, hmmmm

 

[nervoustrig]

Yes, with any direct sear trigger subject to sear drag, you should have none if you complete the trigger pull by squeezing it fully. It only becomes a problem if there is no overtravel. Sounds like you may have something inhibiting the sear from fully pulling free of the hammer.

 

[airgun14]

but then again, if I remove that stiff little spring, the sear falls down and the hammer goes threw without any resistance.....hmmmm this is strange

 

[nervoustrig]

Is the spring going to coil bind and then bowing? That would explain the mushy feeling.

 

[Parrotculler]

The M22 trigger group is a bit tricky when putting back together. Make sure the springs are placed back into their little slots. Some threadlocker at the end of the spring may help achieve that. My m22 trigger is as sweet as any but it required some patience and experimentation with the first stage set screw that, as I recall, is not accessible when the group is mounted.

 

[airgun14]

I will have to check it all out for real, maybee it is the spring making my prob lems, could also be I have to play a bit with first and second stage adjustments.

Otherwise I will have to make a grove into the hammer itself somehow

 

[Odoyle]

Try flipping both trigger springs over upside down and try shooting. If that doesn't help then try shimming the trigger assembly under the 2 mounting screws with a thin water bottle cut into washers to shim the trigger assembly away just a hair. Last check the Allen bolt that's on the hammer isn't dragging due to damage or warped screw and or head remove and roll it on flat surface. Maybe it's only just loose. Try tightening it and the cocking handle Allen engagement screw too.

 

[airgun14]

well if I shim it then there will not be safe as the sear will have less area to grab the hammerweight on, dint feel comfortable with that



I have the tube piece out with only the hammer lose, so there is no allen bolt or cocking handle involved for now..

I only put the hammer inside and push it from behind, then when it releases from the sear I can feel it draging along the hammer weight, I would estimate the drag to 0.5 kg of force extra needed to make the hammer weight to move..... I have already tried swapping and putting them upside down in all different ways, And I am sure they are in place where they should be, Im very careful to put them into their little holes/slots..

 

[Parrotculler]

Hey, does the groove in the hammer that the seer slides into have smooth edges ?

My hammer was not in entirely straight, and the sides of that groove were a bit iffy. I filed and sanded them. If that seer rubs against a gritty edge because the hammer is skewed either to the left or right, it won't feel good ...

Other than that sometimes rather sloppy finishing requiring ironing out, I find this platform to be amazingly high quality in components + accuracy. I telescoped out the shroud and put in curlers. This machine is 70 joule, silent, and long-range accurate with the JSB king ll. The only problem was the price -- suspiciously low.

 

[Odoyle]

Try lapping the tube where the hammer and spring rides.

 

[airgun14]

Hey, does the groove in the hammer that the seer slides into have smooth edges ?

My hammer was not in entirely straight, and the sides of that groove were a bit iffy. I filed and sanded them. If that seer rubs against a gritty edge because the hammer is skewed either to the left or right, it won't feel good ...

Other than that sometimes rather sloppy finishing requiring ironing out, I find this platform to be amazingly high quality in components + accuracy. I telescoped out the shroud and put in curlers. This machine is 70 joule, silent, and long-range accurate with the JSB king ll. The only problem was the price -- suspiciously low.

Hi, what groove, my hammerweight is like a solid tube, there is no groove(i dint understand what you mean), the surface and finish on the outside of the hammerweight seems pretty fine in finish, I dont feel anything abnormal...

I can take a picture and show you.

 

[airgun14]

here:

https://imgur.com/EOawC31

https://imgur.com/OF2IxIq

https://imgur.com/lo1iRYV

https://imgur.com/afKGOxR



The sear goes into a much bigger hole from the trigger assembly as you see, enough space around the sear, all details seems of good quality and finsih.

You can clearly see how the sear drags against the hammer., the hammerweight seems straight and nice surface.

 

[Parrotculler]

Double, could not delete -- see below. 

 

[Parrotculler]

here:

https://imgur.com/EOawC31

https://imgur.com/OF2IxIq

https://imgur.com/lo1iRYV

https://imgur.com/afKGOxR



The sear goes into a much bigger hole from the trigger assembly as you see, enough space around the sear, all details seems of good quality and finsih.

You can clearly see how the sear drags against the hammer., the hammerweight seems straight and nice surface.

Agree, your hammer looks real nice. Mine hasn't been open for a while and I did not make pics. But I recall it having a recess (a "groove") that the seer slides in. The edges were rough, but that clearly is not your challenge. Instead it seems your seer is exercising too much pressure on that hammer. Trigger group tuning ... 

My extra cheapo new M11 just arrived to keep the M22 company during the dark days and nights. Could not resist ...If upon examination I find anything that might be of use to you I'll let you know. Already noticed one difference: the M11 does not have the hammer spring tension adjuster that the M22 does have ...