Skout Attention Skout Epoch Owners-

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Bigragu

Bigragu

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Jul 8, 2018
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Hey, fellow Epoch enthusiasts. I’m reaching out to find out how many of you are interested in eliminating the inline bottle shut off valve in favor for an adapter much like what’s attached on the front of most FX platforms, so at any time the pressurized bottle can be removed safely without losing any of the air in the bottle. The great thing about these Skout Epoch platforms is the air bleed off knob on the side of the chassis, so the entire action can be drained down of all air once the bottle is removed.

I’ve been having back and forth emails with Marc at Huma to come up with this design, and possibly take it another step in where a first stage inline regulator can be designed for this gun much so like they did for the MK1 and MK2 Impacts, in where there are side “tongs” to hug the sides of the chassis giving the addition of a first stage reg a more aesthetic look.

For those of you not familiar with that mod, here’s the link. Probably the best mod overall that I’ve added to my pre M3 impacts, in helping its overall performance-
huma-air.com

FX Impact MKI-MKII First Stage Tuning Regulator by Huma-Air

FX Impact MKI MKII first stage regulator what will flatten out all pressure fluxtuations over the full pressure range of your bottle for extreme accuracy.
huma-air.com huma-air.com

But that would be later down the line if Huma would consider taking that next step. For now it’s the bottle adapter I’m reaching out to all of you for mainly. Huma said if 30 or more folks would be interested in purchasing this adapter, they would move forward in its design and fabrication.
Here would be the pluses to having this adapter-

1. Pressurized bottle can safely be removed with very minimal loss of air
2. No more inline shut off valve that is prone to leaking surprisingly- not bagging on Skout for utilizing this inline valve, as it is recommended that the entire gun be drained of its air after use, but that tiny 003 o ring has twice failed on me, leaving me with all air emptied out of the bottle while shooting at home
3. It will shorten the length of the bottle to chassis connection, giving the Epoch platform an overall better look, aesthetically.

So, fellow Skout Epoch owners, if you are interested in this bottle to chassis adapter, please reply on this thread as I am forwarding this thread to Huma, to see if there is a want/need for this adapter. I’m guessing if Huma moves forward with this, they will sell both the bottle to chassis adapter along with an FX style 300 bar rated bottle valve in kit form, so two parts, maybe.

Thank you
 
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The inline shutoff valve needs to stay so you need to add the valve in front of the shutoff valve. The reason for the shutoff valve is to keep air in the bottle when you drain air from the action. If a FX valve is in use but there is no shutoff valve then if you drain the action you still will drain the whole bottle.

The reason for the shutoff valve design is the spool valve does not like to stay under high pressure for extended time just like in paintball guns where these valves are mainly used. The Skout supposed to be drained every time you finish shooting and put it away for storage.
 
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qball said:
The inline shutoff valve needs to stay so you need to add the valve in front of the shutoff valve. The reason for the shutoff valve is to keep air in the bottle when you drain air from the action. If a FX valve is in use but there is no shutoff valve then if you drain the action you still will drain the whole bottle.

The reason for the shutoff valve design is the spool valve does not like to stay under high pressure for extended time just like in paintball guns where these valves are mainly used. The Skout supposed to be drained every time you finish shooting and put it away for storage.
Click to expand...
It would be nearly as easy to turn the bottle a few turns to disconnect the air supply, as it is to turn off the bottle valve under pressure. Wear and tear may be a larger issue.
 
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Bigragu said:
Hey, fellow Epoch enthusiasts. I’m reaching out to find out how many of you are interested in eliminating the inline bottle shut off valve in favor for an adapter much like what’s attached on the front of most FX platforms, so at any time the pressurized bottle can be removed safely without losing any of the air in the bottle. The great thing about these Skout Epoch platforms is the air bleed off knob on the side of the chassis, so the entire action can be drained down of all air once the bottle is removed.

I’ve been having back and forth emails with Marc at Huma to come up with this design, and possibly take it another step in where a first stage inline regulator can be designed for this gun much so like they did for the MK1 and MK2 Impacts, in where there are side “tongs” to hug the sides of the chassis giving the addition of a first stage reg a more aesthetic look.

For those of you not familiar with that mod, here’s the link. Probably the best mod overall that I’ve added to my pre M3 impacts, in helping its overall performance-
huma-air.com

FX Impact MKI-MKII First Stage Tuning Regulator by Huma-Air

FX Impact MKI MKII first stage regulator what will flatten out all pressure fluxtuations over the full pressure range of your bottle for extreme accuracy.
huma-air.com huma-air.com

But that would be later down the line if Huma would consider taking that next step. For now it’s the bottle adapter I’m reaching out to all of you for mainly. Huma said if 30 or more folks would be interested in purchasing this adapter, they would move forward in its design and fabrication.
Here would be the pluses to having this adapter-

1. Pressurized bottle can safely be removed with very minimal loss of air
2. No more inline shut off valve that is prone to leaking surprisingly- not bagging on Skout for utilizing this inline valve, as it is recommended that the entire gun be drained of its air after use, but that tiny 003 o ring has twice failed on me, leaving me with all air emptied out of the bottle while shooting at home
3. It will shorten the length of the bottle to chassis connection, giving the Epoch platform an overall better look, aesthetically.

So, fellow Skout Epoch owners, if you are interested in this bottle to chassis adapter, please reply on this thread as I am forwarding this thread to Huma, to see if there is a want/need for this adapter. I’m guessing if Huma moves forward with this, they will sell both the bottle to chassis adapter along with an FX style 300 bar rated bottle valve in kit form, so two parts, maybe.

Thank you
Click to expand...
Depending on cost, I’m down to try something different, thanks Augie
 
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I’m religious about draining the air after each use, Qball. But I’ll tell you, each and every time I slowly open up that inline bottle valve, I’m worried about hearing that tiny pop, and the slow hiss that’s soon to follow, of the air leaking out the bottle thru that valve. I’ve tried buna, and that didn’t last long so back to the polyurethane o ring . It doesn’t take much for that dash 003 o ring to get nicked to start a leak. Sure enough, before RMAC I installed fresh o rings on that valve but it still could’ve leaked.
I’d rather loosen the bottle a few turns to disconnect bottle pressure to the gun, then empty out the chassis with the epochs bleed knob. At worst, the Dowty seal would need replacing but that’s a very easy repair that doesn’t empty out the bottle, vs the Skout’s inline valve that has 3 o rings and in order to swap in fresh o rings tho entire bottle has to be drained out
 
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interesting idea
I do get a little troubled over the rings in the shutoff valve. I have replaced quite a few.
I see you have tried other types of orings to use instead of the polyurethane and did not have better results..that's a shame.
Is there a way to break the edge on the valve so that it will not cut the oring?

iI shall keep an eye on this to see how your replacement works over time
Good luck with this...hope you get some positive results
Mike
 
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qball said:
The inline shutoff valve needs to stay so you need to add the valve in front of the shutoff valve. The reason for the shutoff valve is to keep air in the bottle when you drain air from the action. If a FX valve is in use but there is no shutoff valve then if you drain the action you still will drain the whole bottle.

The reason for the shutoff valve design is the spool valve does not like to stay under high pressure for extended time just like in paintball guns where these valves are mainly used. The Skout supposed to be drained every time you finish shooting and put it away for storage.
Click to expand...
It is not so much a spool valve thing .... but that of Poly O-rings. While poly is tough and very wear resistant offering much greater service life over Buna or Viton, there one down side that is being addressed with the on/off valve is that of compression set. This being the permanent shape shift ( Lacking shape memory ) that happens to nearly all o-ring when subjected too constant pressure or compressive loading. Polyurethane o-rings sadly with all there positives need to be relieved from pressure when not in use if one wants a long and trouble free pneumatic system.

My words & thoughts .. Not Skouts :unsure:
 
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Motorhead said:
It is not so much a spool valve thing .... but that of Poly O-rings. While poly is tough and very wear resistant offering much greater service life over Buna or Viton, there one down side that is being addressed with the on/off valve is that of compression set. This being the permanent shape shift ( Lacking shape memory ) that happens to nearly all o-ring when subjected too constant pressure or compressive loading. Polyurethane o-rings sadly with all there positives need to be relieved from pressure when not in use if one wants a long and trouble free pneumatic system.

My words & thoughts .. Not Skouts :unsure:
Click to expand...
So what are your thoughts, Scott, on an adapter like what’s on an Impact, so a pressurized bottle can be removed with minimal air loss, and getting rod on the inline shut off valve?
 
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Bigragu said:
So what are your thoughts, Scott, on an adapter like what’s on an Impact, so a pressurized bottle can be removed with minimal air loss, and getting rod on the inline shut off valve?
Click to expand...
I think that would be better. What exists doesn’t perform well, so an internal bottle valve would be a benefit no doubt, and doesn’t increase the bottle length. Slow to get that you were addressing Motorhead there, but that’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it!
 
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Bigragu said:
So what are your thoughts, Scott, on an adapter like what’s on an Impact, so a pressurized bottle can be removed with minimal air loss, and getting rod on the inline shut off valve?
Click to expand...
Once the valve is closed ( Factory on/off ) the bottle & valve can easily be unscrewed.
All one needs is a factory on/off valve on bottles one wishes to swap out in lieu of one bottle filling on gun.

As to a 3rd HP regulator as the swed guns at times get retrofitted ... in there case a 3rd reg is a crutch to having poor performing & unstable factory HP regs plaguing some users

The EPOCH has a very stable HP regulator ( Until it's not :cry: .. Bleed off issues for some ) which is getting addressed with great success as the model evolves further.

These VERY high tech PCP's are going to have pneumatic issues due to the pressures we use them at and cyclic function.
 
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Motorhead said:
I took valve apart and using a Cratex point in the dremel tool, radius-ed the o-ring side bleed hole of the rotating part.
No issues sense ;) ( Turned o-ring over as it was clipped )
Click to expand...
Thanks for that @Motorhead ..i think i will give that a try before i buy another part
Mike
 
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Count me in.

What I would like is to see someone make an adapter that fits into the Skout on one side and is threaded to accept the FX valve on the other side. The FX in bottle valves seem robust and reliable. I would like to see them become standard on all bottle guns. Imagine having a bunch of bottles of different sizes that you could just take a few and your favorite... Daystate, Skout, FX, Huben etc. and head hunting or to the range for the day.
 
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Scotty1 said:
It would be nearly as easy to turn the bottle a few turns to disconnect the air supply, as it is to turn off the bottle valve under pressure. Wear and tear may be a larger issue.
Click to expand...


I don't like to do that often as when there is pressure there is a lot of friction not the thread even with correct lube. The gun certainly still need the shut off valve or one would need to screw off the bottle every time and I would also worry about thread wear like you mentioned.
 
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Scotty1 said:
I think that would be better. What exists doesn’t perform well, so an internal bottle valve would be a benefit no doubt, and doesn’t increase the bottle length.
Click to expand...

qball said:
I don't like to do that often as when there is pressure there is a lot of friction not the thread even with correct lube. The gun certainly still need the shut off valve or one would need to screw off the bottle every time and I would also worry about thread wear like you mentioned.
Click to expand...
Yes, I wasn’t thinking that you would need to spin it off after each session. I’ll try easing the edges in the valve as Motorhead describes.
 
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I say if in the end a shut off valve is still required in line with the chassis and the bottle, maybe make it some type of ball valve that eliminates that 003 o ring thst can either take a set, slice, or pop a tear leaving you with a long hiss of air as the entire gun and bottle drain all its air out. Very concerning if the gun is used in competition with only a 30 minute shoot time.

Other than that, I find the Skout near perfect
 
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