AV Avenger - POI changes after air fills

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I have been poopooed a few times for saying this, but I'll say it again just for good measure.

If the barrel band is linked to the barrel and the pressure tube, you WILL see POI shifts as the pressure tube pressure varies.

It was true with the Nova Vista Freedoms/Liberty and is true with any other airgun that does NOT have a "free floating" barrel.

Yes, some will say that the Fortitude doesn't have a free floating barrel because the shroud supports the barrel. However, I disagree. The barrel and the shroud support each other and anything that moves one, moves the other. When the barrel band is adjusted properly, the shroud makes NO contact with the barrel band.

So, it IS a "free floating barrel".

The Avenger, AFAIK, does NOT have a free floating barrel/shroud. So, it IS connected to the fluctuations of the pressure tube. Just like the Freedom/Liberty on which the Avenger is based.

So, it WILL exhibit POI shifts as the pressure changes.

My best advice/suggestion is to find that narrow pressure range window where the POI shift is at a minimum. Then keep the gun within that pressure range for consistent accuracy/precision. Be that 10 shots or 30 shots.

When my Freedoms still worked, that pressure range was between 2900psi and 2500psi for 10 VERY consistent/accurate/precise shots... at ~740fps on the low setting or ~920fps on the high setting using 10.5 CPUM pellets. It (both of the .177s I own) really was a tack driver! (smile)

Never had any luck with the .22 version...................... (heavy sigh)

JMHO YMMV
 
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BackStop said:
Yes, some will say that the Fortitude doesn't have a free floating barrel because the shroud supports the barrel. However, I disagree. The barrel and the shroud support each other and anything that moves one, moves the other. When the barrel band is adjusted properly, the shroud makes NO contact with the barrel band.

So, it IS a "free floating barrel".

The Avenger, AFAIK, does NOT have a free floating barrel/shroud. So, it IS connected to the fluctuations of the pressure tube. Just like the Freedom/Liberty on which the Avenger is based.

So, it WILL exhibit POI shifts as the pressure changes.


JMHO YMMV
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The Avenger has a 25mm shroud floating in the center of a 26mm band unless you use the plastic tipped grub screws to take the slack out. There is only one definition for free floating barrel and that is nothing touches the barrel beyond where it mounts in the receiver. So the Avenger or impacts or any other gun does not have a free floating barrel if anything touches it past the receiver.
This guy isn't free floating is he? All in good humor my friend, I still love ya no homo.
Floating-man[1].jpg
 
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heavy-impact said:
The Avenger has a 25mm shroud floating in the center of a 26mm band unless you use the plastic tipped grub screws to take the slack out. There is only one definition for free floating barrel and that is nothing touches the barrel beyond where it mounts in the receiver. So the Avenger or impacts or any other gun does not have a free floating barrel if anything touches it past the receiver.
This guy isn't free floating is he? All in good humor my friend, I still love ya no homo.
View attachment 300235
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Well, my friend, we will have to agree to disagree. The Avengers barrel bands DO touch the shroud by design, so those are not "free floating" barrels. And if the FX designs allow the barrel band to "connect" the barrel/shroud to the pressure tube, then those are NOT free floating barrels.

However, the Fortitude, when the barrel band is adjusted properly, IS a free floating barrel.

Your definition of a free floating barrel is simply ridiculous, inane and inaccurate. IMHO

Or is there another name for the "definition" I have defined?

I call them as I see them. Nothing more or less.
 
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heavy-impact said:

Free-floating barrel Explained | Pyramyd Air

What is Free-floating barrel? See the definition along with other helpful information.
www.pyramydair.com
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Never the less. A shrouded barrel should be considered as one entity. If you disagree, so be it.

I don't know of any shrouded barrel where the shroud and the barrel are not in contact with each other and therefor conjoined.

So, a shrouded barrel that is not touched after the joining at the breech IS a floating barrel.

For all practical purposes, what I am saying makes logical, reasonable, rational sense.

What you are saying does not.

Do you want to call it something else? Name it!
 
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I’ll chime in with my observation on having to install a DonnyFL adaptor on my Bullpup and being a raw newbie to pcp’s at the time.
After having read that airgun barrels are free-floating I was a bit annoyed and curious when I removed the nut, and baffles were attached, that obviously fit on and over the muzzle. WTH?
Then the adaptor fit over the muzzle and screwed into the shroud? Another WTH? moment.
“That ain’t no free-floating barrel!!" says I.

So I had to make the leap-of-faith assumption a free-floating barrel for this particular airgun includes the shroud/baffle/moderator as an assembly.
But to my mind that design is not a truly free floating assembly due to the integration of the overall design.

What really matters to me is how it performs

Was it accurate? Yes!
Did it make much noise? No!
Could a nickel cover a 5 shot group at 50yds? Yes!

If the "definition" doesn’t quite fit my "ideal" I am still damn happy with the results every time it goes pfffft.
 
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Shooting with moderators to determine POI changes yesterday since this thread got me thinking.

I have the avenger Bullpup in 25. The reg is set about 2100, I fill to 3000. It is stock with no other adjustments etc.
Zero POI change from first to last shot. To remain consistent I kept the tank topped off after every 5 or 6 rounds.
POI is consistent without a moderator and with my new 30cal Huggett Astille with one extension.
However with the 25cal DL Tanto installed POI shifts 1.5 inch left and 1 inch higher approximately but with consistency.
Any ideas why?

Yesterday at 50yds most groups were less than 3/4 inch with Benjamin (no listed weight) JSB Exact King 25.39 and H&N Silver Point 24.38 pellets. Groups with Benjamin and JSB’s were extremely tight. H&N’s shot a bit high and left to be expected with the lighter weight.
At 100 yds it was hitting approximately 4 inches above POA with 1-2 inch groups.

I’m new to pcp’s so it’s been a steep learning curve in some aspects compared to PB’s.
This thread has made me consider just how much there is to learn about tweaking this air gun and what it’s possible of.

I’ve been taking Prairie dogs the last few years regularly so my long distance skills have improved.
I’m impressed with the Bullpup platform and just how accurate this Avenger is.
Now I really want a big bore Texan but I can’t shoot big game with one in Colorado so I’ll wait until I to go hunt Texas hogs.

All these were shot off bench and outdoor with absolutely minimal wind!
It was a stellar day on the high plains of Colorado.
 
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KratosTM said:
So what's the verdict on this? I have a bullpup coming in Friday and Black Arts barrel band. Am I not gonna be able to fill to max pressure?
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My take-away is I don't have to fill to full pressure to get the accuracy. It will also help to increase long term reliability.
Full pressure fills should not be an issue either as long as it within the manf. specs.
Dialing in what works is the challenge and fun. Vague enough for ya? good luck!:unsure: and have fun!
 
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Mr303 said:
My take-away is I don't have to fill to full pressure to get the accuracy. It will also help to increase long term reliability.
Full pressure fills should not be an issue either as long as it within the manf. specs.
Dialing in what works is the challenge and fun. Vague enough for ya? good luck!:unsure: and have fun!
Click to expand...

Lol....that's basically the answer I would expect to get on almost anything. haha
 
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