Available types of airguns

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gkenny

gkenny

Member
Oct 12, 2020
58
3
PA.
Hi,

I consider myself a fair to average rifle/pistol shooter. I have a lot of different types of airguns; Springers, CO2, single or multi-stroke pneumatics, etc. The only one I don't have is PCP powered.

I have two of the better springers available, two RWS Diana's, a model 34 in .177 and a model 48/52 in .22, I also have a very good single stroke pneumatic, the Baikal 46M.

My problem is that I seldom, if ever, shoot for an extended amount of time, where a PCP would be best. More likely I occasionally spot a Groundhog near my deck or a Squirrel on my bird feeder from my window and take a shot!

I have become very unhappy with my Diana springers. The model 48/52 was very powerful and accurate and served me very well for awhile, but recently it, or me, has lost a step. I used to be able to consistently shoot a 1 inch to 1 1/2, 5-shot group, with good quality pellets, at 25 yards, from a rest on my window sill. recently, I not only shoot more like a 4 inch group, but the group has moved from off center to 5 inches high, or low! Similar results for the model 34. The Baikal 46M, a pneumatic, has remained consistently my most accurate gun ever, even better than my custom made firearms from my completion youth! It will consistently shoot a 5 shot, 25 yard, bench-rested group at well under 1 inch, and has never gone several inches off target like the others have!

I have learned that springers often act like this because they are very sensitive to 'hold' and any inadvertent change in position, tightness, hand placement, shoulder placement, thickness of the window sill, etc.etc.

Well I am too old and too tired to put up with this crap! So I am looking for help here!

I need a new .22 caliber airgun, pistol or rifle, which is capable, if I do my part, to shoot at least a 5-shot 1 1/2 inch group at 25 yards, bench rested. It must also be able to move a .22 pellet at at least 600 or 700 fps, preferably faster. It can be single-shot. the Baikal is more than capable as for the accuracy part, but at about 400 or 500 fps, and .177 caliber is not near powerful enough for clean, humane kills on Groundhogs and Squirrels.

PCP's would fill the bill as well as many CO2's, but since I can't shoot once or twice and lay them up until next week when the next shot comes along, PCP's and CO2's are not practical!

So what would recommend to solve my problem?

Thank you for any help that you can offer a very frustrated old-timer!

Stay safe, regards, gkenny. 
 
I have a RWS 54 and a RWS 56 in .22 .It is a spring gun but shoots like a PCP because it is a recoilless rifle. The action rides on rails to reduce the kick in the shot cycle. It isn’t hard to shoot 1/2” to 5/8” groups at 50 yards at about 23 ft lbs. The only down side is it takes about 45# of cocking force to cock the gun and weighs 10 #. This gun is not for the wimpy. MM
 
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Sell your stress inducing springers then...buy ...

Cheap hand pump with decent filter and a 22 Benjamin Maximus Hunter direct from Crosman with 25% AGNATION discount code ordered only Friday mornings for free shipping. TKO22.com LDC and Crosman Challenger trigger group from Crosman. Specifically this PCP due to only 2000psi fill requirement using only a hand pump to fill. Any other gun that requires 3000psi or more is a chore to pump unless it's a pistol with tiny air cylinder. The Maximus gives you longer reach than a P-Rod too. Easy sub one inch at 65 yards. Probably 100 yard 1.5 inch spinner target 9/10 times with the right ammo. Good news probably shoot cheap Crosman Hollowpoints pretty darn accurate too.

OR

22 RWS model 54 or 56. They are the most accurate modern day magnum power springers IMHO out to 100 yards and beyond and even to around 175-185 yards (give or take) under ideal conditions believe it or not. 50 yards Is just too easy for these springers...




 
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"PCP's would fill the bill as well as many CO2's, but since I can't shoot once or twice and lay them up until next week when the next shot comes along, PCP's and CO2's are not practical!"



I wonder if maybe you have a misconception about PCP rifles here. Because in fact they need to be left filled or at least partially filled so pumping up PCP, taking a couple shots and putting it away, and shooting again a day or two later seems like a perfectly good way to use it (unless there something that I don't know).


The amount you are comfortable spending would probably have a pretty big effect in terms of what your options are.


How much would you be willing to spend on a PCP air gun if the only expense is the gun and a sub-$100 hand pump?
 
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My grateful thanks to MetalManiac, Odoyle and MrP for their valuable input!

I now have a much better idea of what to do. The consensus is either an RWS 54 or 56, or a PCP with a hand pump.

MrP is correct, I did have a misconception about PCP rifles and he set me straight! Metalmaniac and Odoyle both gave me information about the RWS 54 and 56 that I didn't know.

Now I am going to have to take some time and decide what I want to do, but thanks to you three, with a far better knowledge base than I had before!

One other gun I have and forgot to mention, is a .20 caliber Sheridan Silver Streak in mint condition. Am I correct that this gun would qualify as a multi-pump pneumatic and not a springer? If so, could this be a possible candidate along with the PCP and RWS that you have mentioned? What is your opinion on this gun?

Thanks again, you guys have nailed this one for me and I can't wait to get into the investigation starting now!

Regards, gkenny.


 
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I've learned a lot here thanks to some helpful people.


I have an airgun I think is fantastic but some people aren't crazy about it. You mentioned single shot being acceptable so it's a really really excellent single shot gun. At least as far as I can tell from my perspective. I really am enjoying the heck out of my TalonP "pistol" which I have configured more like a rifle. Under $500 and I have come to see why airforce calls it a "utility airgun". It shoots all kind of pellets and slugs equally well, lots of power and easy to adjust power level, it is easy to take apart, modify, repair. I mean it is so simple. Nothing is contained in complicated housing only a small number of screws need to be removed for all parts to come out. Reassembly is very easy. I sucked at this kind of thing and I was able to pull it off and I feel comfortable completely breaking down and rebuilding it now.

The rest of this post is stuff I learned recently (so pros correct the errors please) and which would have been gibberish to me 5 months ago. I will lay out here why I think this is an excellent airgun, maybe you can use these points later on for comparison in case any of them sound like something that would be of value to you in making a choice. 


There are all kinds of modifications that are simple to install as a result of its excellent design. For example multiple transfer ports (aka top hats or valve caps In the case of this airgun) that can be quickly swapped out to tune it down to shoot in the 15 FPE range or all the way up to 50+ with the stock barrel and with a slightly longer barrel, up at around 65-75 at least. I haven't finished testing out my 18 inch barrel but I am getting 75FPE no problem without being at full power.

Swapping barrels doesn't take long at all so you can change the caliber or you can change the length of the barrel easily. The transfer port and the valve and the pressure gauge are all connected to the air tank as a removable unit and can be quickly removed and swapped out. Between being able to change the barrel and being able to change the valve and transfer port and tank in just a few minutes you can turn this from a mellow tin can plinking pistol that is not too bad to pump by hand into a 150FPE long-range / bigger bore airgun that will have you scrambling to get a scuba tank or compressor I imagine 


Of course all of the stuff isn't cheap so all the money you save getting your $475 over powered oversized pistol quickly get eaten up by extra tanks extra barrels different valves different hammer springs but if that's your kind of thing I can't think of a better gun to be working on. And, it all only adds up to the price of one really expensive gun, you can end up with a set of modules that can be configured into what feels like a few very different air guns. Seriously these guys deserve some kind of industrial design award.

I don't know I feel like a fan boy gushing over this thing here but I think if you're looking for a platform that is flexible and easy to understand and to experiment with really I can't think of anything better. American made, so there's that as well


 
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I had to buy a Talon Tunes 9 inch silencer for my Talon P pistol. It was super loud like shooting a firearm and couldn't shoot it at home and only at the gun range before that. My Talon P is a super long pistol now. At least it's quiet now. When my hardcore firearm only buddies tease me that I spend too much on airgun toys I take off the Talon P silencer and let them hear how loud it is then they shut up. LOL!!!

Good news it's super powerful around 50 foot pounds thats more than enough to kill raccoons, opossums and foxes and possibly coyote if close enough. One of the most powerful hunting air pistols money can buy and it's a 25 caliber specific pistol carbine too! 

Got pasty critters or neighbors pets encroaching on your property doing their nasty? Just dry fire it outside and guarantee they go running from the loud blast. Your neighbors probably keep them chained after that after hearing the (dry fire) shot.
 
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The TalonP is super loud for sure. Like even shooting in my garage with everything shut up I worry about it freaking out my neighbors type loud. In fact what I worry about is that without the moderator it probably sounds like a suppressed firearm. But I have no experience with firearms. 


I've been able to greatly suppress the sound with relatively small homemade 3-D printed LDCs But they have to be pretty tough to handle the huge burst of air. Some of the ones at work on my Artemis can't handle the air blast from the talon. If your goal is real sound suppression, you'll definitely need like a 9 inch moderator with a nice big volume. But if all you want to do is have it so your ears don't ring and it doesn't sound like a firearm, a smaller moderator will work just fine and tone it down to an acceptable pop

Try adding an 18 inch barrel and hearing how loud that thing is. It turns out the shroud actually dampens the sound quite a bit on this gun - The front barrel bushings are vented and the air expands back into the shroud. I've noticed a lot of lead gets pushed back into there. actually I noticed something wild after one of my plastic core LDC's shattered. Backflow into the shroud is actually pretty strong and it actually sucked in little bits of plastic from the LDC through the adapter and back into the shroud. Trying to figure out how that even happened.

And again I am just so pleased that a quick barrel change has me shooting up at around almost 80 FPE. 

my daily shooting is indoors range, close in, but the other thing is I can shoot a hole through some thing, switch to a totally different pellet and shoot it through the same hole, Changing the weight doesn't make a difference on the point of impact in my 11 to 12 m range in my garage. I recognize that this has a little bearing on a 50 yard shot or whatever.So I can shoot a 30 grain diablo and follow up with a 47 grain slug through the same hole. Contrast this with my gamo spring piston where each brand has its own poi and One brand can be 3 inches off from another even as close in as 11 or 12 yards. That gun just always made me nervous I never felt like I understood what was going on with it.
 
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Hey the Sheridan would actually work fine for your needs if you don't mind pumping. However you need to do a few extra things to attach a scope. I would agree that a Benjamin maximus would work great for you. I have 2 of the cheapest hand pumps off Ali express and they have worked for 2 years of hard use. Buy this cheap Inline filter as well as some desiccant beads to remove water from the air. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_dp_s_mw_0?ie=UTF8&search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Creation+Core really the maximus is plenty capable for your needs. For a little bit more you can get the fortitude with its regulator and multishot receiver and sound reduction. It is also accurate but probably sends a 14.3g pellet a little slower than the unregulated maximus. I'm guessing you can get 600 to 700 fps. Others who own one can chime in and give a realistic fps. 
 
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Many thanks to MrP, Metalmaniac, Odoyle, and Locker50, for your informative opinions, you are not only very helpful, but you have opened my eyes to PCP's!

I think that after reading all of your kind help, I have decided to get away from the frustration of springers, even the new, improved ones, and go to PCP. I have never owned one, but the information that you have provided indicates that this is the airgun which will fill my needs the best!

Now I have a new dilemma; Which one to purchase and what other equipment is required! Air force Talon P and Condors, Benjamin Marauder and Maximus have been mentioned here are are being considered. Can you discuss the attributes of these and are there any other suggestions which may be OK?

Thanks again, regards, gkenny. 
 
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Hi Raden 1942, thank you very much for your kind input! 

You are correct, the Sheridan might work, but it is a bear to pump up to 8 times to get the velocity I want! I am over 80 and by the time I get to 8, I need oxygen!

Old-Whats-Her-Name is much stronger than I, but she refuses to do it any more! Lol!

I have received some wonderful advice here and have decided to go PCP, which I had never even considered before you guys have helped so much.

If you read my last post, before your input, I have asked for a discussion so that I choose the best one for my needs.

What I am looking for is everything in the world and free!

No, but I would really like to have; No special holding requirements as with springers. No CO., At least .22 caliber. Speeds of at least 700 or 800 fps. And most of all accuracy of at least 1 inch, 5 shot groups at 25 yards, and 1 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards.

Since I will probably only shoot a couple of times a day, I have to have a way to spot a Groundhog in the back yard, be able to pump up the gun a few times, and be able to leave it charged for a day to two before the next shot.

Any further ideas you might have will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again, regards, gkenny.
 
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I was raised with nice Diana springers when I lived in Germany 50 years ago and I only have one springer left so what does that tell you..... In the right hands, highly tuned, custom stocked springers, can be amazing for what they are, a friend has $2000+ into his, but it's still """JUST""" a springer....

Definitely don't compromise, get a PCP, good ones are extremely amazingly wonderful! 

I'd buy a used Marauder in 22 cal and if perhaps it doesn't shoot well I'd send it off to Derrick Wall to be totally gone through. There is a ton of aftermarket support which makes rebuilding and tuning less complicated. A bud of mine bought one for $250 and it's been a decent gun for sure! I haven't had a PCP yet that wouldn't put 5 shots into 3/4" at 25Y. The best can shoot sub 1/4" consistently in calm conditions.

Pellet selection is HUGE when it comes to accuracy, more so precision!!! You'll need to try the better brands like JSB, starting with the 18gr. Some guns like certain pellets better than others.




 
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The Marauder is a great multi shot gun ( magazine fed ) that is accurate and quiet but long and barrel end heavy. The steel tank runs the length of the barrel of the gun.

The Airforce gun is a single shot gun that is very light and accurate and powerful but scope has to sit high on gun because of inline valve design of gun. They do make a tank drop down adapter to remedy that.

Hand pumping gets old quick even when you are young. If you like to shoot like I do your air is gone quick. If you are hunting only you can hand pump to top off. 

When I got my Condor the tank was empty 0 psi. To get to 2900 psi was 700 strokes no leaks either. After it was full I would shoot from 2500 psi to 1500 Psi which is about 200 strokes with a Hill MK3 pump 

I would do four sets of 50 pumps to let the pump cool and me cool. And if you try to shoot after pumping your heart rate is up. 

It didn’t take long and I bought a CF tank then could not find a business that stayed around long enough to fill it. PCPs are a slippery slope but a fun one. MM
 
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Good point MM!

I really do not want to be a slave to an air pump and I worry about the length of time between shots. Rarely do I have the luxury of two or three shots in a 30 minute period. I will have to keep the gun loaded with air until the need for another shot is required, probably at least 24 hours later!

I just can not continue with the 'picky' holding requirements with springers any longer. I have changed pellets, telescopic sights, scope bases, surfaces to lay the gun on, different holds, and still I get large groups of shots in different places on the target!

I am done with springers!

I am leaning towards the Marauder, even with it's faults.

Thank you. regards, gkenny.
 
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Once you pump up a PCP air tank it will hold air forever no problem until you need the gun unless an “O” ring is leaking. 

You can leave the gun loaded with pellet as long as you need to wait on varmint. 

Just practice good gun safety and shoot pellet out remove magazine before storage

Marauder is a great first PCP. I was just giving all the basic information so you could make an informed choice . Best wishes on your new purchase. MM
 
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Hi MM, thanks for the information. This sort of information is especially helpful considering my lack of PCP knowledge.

I have not decided what to purchase yet, I will need a little more time.

Two more that I am considering with the Marauder is the Air Force Talon, which you told me about, and the Gamo Urban.

Thanks again for all of your help, it is particularly gratifying!

Regards, gkenny.



By the way, how do I change the default font and type size?
 
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