barrel harmonic end goal?

[daddypaddy]

with regards to barrel harmonics, what is the end goal?
like what is the tuner aiming for?
dampening vibrations as much as possible or altering those vibrations to a specific frequency?

 

[daddypaddy]

also, does harmonics come into play at what length barrels?
i’m just trying to get a better understanding of this topic.

 

[Franklink]

End goal is accuracy.

Most of the harmonics discussions I see revolve around thinner barrels...

 

[MongooseV8]

Basically all barrels that propel a projectile will have some degree of a harmonic frequency, and you want the projectile to exit the bore at the middle of its peak. That is when the muzzle is at its most true neutral position. A tuner can both lower the total frequency, and adjust the timing of the harmonics and project.

 

[daddypaddy]

true neutral position as in close to or no vibrations?
is a barrel tensioner also a barrel harmonic tuning accessory?

 

[Dairyboy]

Longer thinner barrels will have more harmonics/be more sensitive to a tune than a shorter thicker barrel. A true tensioned barrel will stretch the barrel which will reduce said harmonics more than a bare barrel which makes them even less sensitive to tunes. Also generally the more power you put out the more the harmonics there will be. Accuracy is the main goal getting that projectile to exit the barrel at the exact same harmonic node every time.

 

[RM.510bigbore]

My 510 Texan is a big spring and hammer with lots of.vibrations at different times... A heavy barrel or tension system on barrels help.harmonic s. Airgun s.have alot of extra.things going on....

 

[Nico5999]

true neutral position as in close to or no vibrations?
is a barrel tensioner also a barrel harmonic tuning accessory?

I disagree with the “neutral position” assumption mentioned above. The goal should be for the projectile to exit at an inflection point in the barrels movement so that it is as close to motionless as possible (or slowing down and preparing to change direction) when the projectile exits the bore.

I wrote a blog post that explains this in more details a few years ago

Barrel Harmonics 101 - American Airgunner

Barrel Harmonics 101 Part 1: Good Vibes Only – Vibrations, Carbon Fiber Sleeves, Barrel Tension and Barrel Tuners Whether it’s somebody’s auntie sending “good vibrations” on Facebook, TikTokers talking about “the Vibe”, or airgunners writing forum posts about barrel tuners, optimizing vibrations...

americanairgunner.com

 

[daddypaddy]

I disagree with the “neutral position” assumption mentioned above. The goal should be for the projectile to exit at an inflection point in the barrels movement so that it is as close to motionless as possible (or slowing down and preparing to change direction) when the projectile exits the bore.

I wrote a blog post that explains this in more details a few years ago

Barrel Harmonics 101 - American Airgunner

Barrel Harmonics 101 Part 1: Good Vibes Only – Vibrations, Carbon Fiber Sleeves, Barrel Tension and Barrel Tuners Whether it’s somebody’s auntie sending “good vibrations” on Facebook, TikTokers talking about “the Vibe”, or airgunners writing forum posts about barrel tuners, optimizing vibrations...

americanairgunner.com

i just read the article. it sounds like less vibration is the goal and no vibration is the unicorn.

 

[thomasair]

It should be noted that the most accurate 50y rifles in the world (Unlimited Rimfire)....which also happen to be our closest relative due to their projectile material (lead) and weight....do not support any of the theories so far listed and explained in the above posts.

The 100% dominant explanation that is actually supported by real world results on 100% of top Rimfire BR rifles is the stopped muzzle...produced only by adding the proper amount of weight in the proper position in front of the muzzle. Bill Calfee invented the Rimfire muzzle device like 25 years ago and it forever changed Rimfire BR. Do a search on stopped muzzle Rimfire and you'll find plenty to read.

Mike

 

[MongooseV8]

I disagree with the “neutral position” assumption mentioned above. The goal should be for the projectile to exit at an inflection point in the barrels movement so that it is as close to motionless as possible (or slowing down and preparing to change direction) when the projectile exits the bore.

I wrote a blog post that explains this in more details a few years ago

Barrel Harmonics 101 - American Airgunner

Barrel Harmonics 101 Part 1: Good Vibes Only – Vibrations, Carbon Fiber Sleeves, Barrel Tension and Barrel Tuners Whether it’s somebody’s auntie sending “good vibrations” on Facebook, TikTokers talking about “the Vibe”, or airgunners writing forum posts about barrel tuners, optimizing vibrations...

americanairgunner.com

Semantics mostly. A barrel will never wiggle the same every time so trying to match a peak movement with the projectile cannot be as good as a more centered/neutral position. Not to mention they dont stop moving, so there is no "close to motionless". If you ever watched slow motion video of a barrel you will see what Im talking about.

 

[MongooseV8]

i just read the article. it sounds like less vibration is the goal and no vibration is the unicorn.

Less vibration yes, no vibration is impossible. With very heavy and rigid setups you can minimize vibration, but that pesky physics monster is always insisting to be included.

 

[manabeknives]

It should be noted that the most accurate 50y rifles in the world (Unlimited Rimfire)....which also happen to be our closest relative due to their projectile material (lead) and weight....do not support any of the theories so far listed and explained in the above posts.

The 100% dominant explanation that is actually supported by real world results on 100% of top Rimfire BR rifles is the stopped muzzle...produced only by adding the proper amount of weight in the proper position in front of the muzzle. Bill Calfee invented the Rimfire muzzle device like 25 years ago and it forever changed Rimfire BR. Do a search on stopped muzzle Rimfire and you'll find plenty to read.

Mike

is a stopped muzzle the same as a muzzle brake?
Thanks
Mike

 

[thomasair]

A stopped muzzle is a condition...it's not an accessory.

The explanation has been covered a million times over and is fairly complex in all...so it's best that you just search "stopped muzzle Rimfire" and start reading.

Lots of competing theories, but none of them seem to work like Bills in practice.

Mike

 

[manabeknives]

Thanks Mike
i get forums with a lot of chatter, but difficult to distinguish what is what..like you said..it's complex
need more coffee for this

 

[manabeknives]

A stopped muzzle is a condition...it's not an accessory.

The explanation has been covered a million times over and is fairly complex in all...so it's best that you just search "stopped muzzle Rimfire" and start reading.

Lots of competing theories, but none of them seem to work like Bills in practice.

Mike

Is this the book for reading?

 

[ThomasT]

Hello everone,

I took @thomasair advice and found this, read it

Stopping the muzzle, Calfee

My centerfire friends: What I'm going to tell you now, I have never related to another human being. STOPPING THE MUZZLE When I run my range tests on the guns I build, the first thing I must do is to determine what tuner weight, and position on the barrel, is necessary,to STOP my muzzle, not...

benchrest.com

ThomasT

 

[thomasair]

Bill is somewhat of a cryptic writer. It's rare that he just comes out with a direct answer to any question. That book is ok...but everything in the book has been discussed on the forums somewhere in greater detail.

 

[manabeknives]

can the dwell time be adjusted for the pellet to leave the barrel at one of the nodes or anti-nodes?

 

[MongooseV8]

can the dwell time be adjusted for the pellet to leave the barrel at one of the nodes or anti-nodes?

As I understand it, that is the point of a tuner. You can change the barrel harmonics in many different ways to try and minimize the affect on the projectile. That includes tune, specific ammos, tuner, barrel material, barrel dimensions, barrel support, action design, etc.

And with respect to the above Barrel Stop, I read through the posts linked and have to disagree with the concept entirely. You simply cannot stop the muzzle/barrel from moving...ever. There will always be some amount of harmonic vibration movement. You can get that amount low, very low with the right design and setup but it will still move. Not to mention the idea of being able to now shoot different loads through the same barrel and the muzzle movement now has no affect on the projectile is easily proven false. Over the years I have ran into countless shooters with wild theories that kind of make sense at their range, but once you try it for yourself it is not repeatable. That is not exactly scientific, I should be able to reproduce any sound theory. I dont know, maybe Im one the crazy theory guys now lol.