What .177 or .22 barrels are most often successful in FT or HFT? Anyone using the original smoothtwist.177?
Best barrels for FT and HFT?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
LW, but any barrel with reasonable accuracy will work. CZ or BSA, but the rest of the gun has to like it too, and the guy pulling the trigger makes a big difference.
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2015 National's Hunter Class was won with a ST barrelled Evanix Rainstorm. The barrel was one of the early ones imported 6 years earlier that had a reputation "on the net" as inaccurate. That same barrel placed 8th in HV class at Bench Rest World Championships in 2010. L/W is probably the widest used bbl in FT in the USA.
Will Piatt
Will Piatt
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G
Guest
Guest
Not trying to be a smart ass here. It will be the barrel and gun that shoots best for you in a FT match. I know it's a broad response but it's no less correct than any other.
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I have a couple of guns that may make a good candidate to get me started in HFT but only one has a .177 barrel for it (an original ST). Before I went too far down the rabbit hole I was just looking for a general direction. For example if I asked a similar question in 100 yd bench right now the general consensus is .22 LW polygon with JSBredesigns or STX .25 with JSB's. Of course there are a lot of other combinations that work equally well but either of those would be a great place to start.
I understand the shooter on the day makes the difference but it takes both. I haven't seen any red ryder's in the winners circle.
It is a true statement that a gun capable of perfect accuracy will be limited by the shooter but the inverse is also true. For what it's worth, I have nowhere near the skill level to compete but I'm still having fun. Most guys don't spend a bunch of money on a fly fishing rod just to save money on fish, they like fishing! I love shooting even if i'm only competing against the last time I shot.
I understand the shooter on the day makes the difference but it takes both. I haven't seen any red ryder's in the winners circle.
It is a true statement that a gun capable of perfect accuracy will be limited by the shooter but the inverse is also true. For what it's worth, I have nowhere near the skill level to compete but I'm still having fun. Most guys don't spend a bunch of money on a fly fishing rod just to save money on fish, they like fishing! I love shooting even if i'm only competing against the last time I shot.
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All my HW rifles shoot really well so I would agree they must make good barrels. I also agree BSA, CZ, and LW make great barrels. I don't have a Smooth Twist barrel so I can say but the concept behind them sounds good and am sure they are. I will also add Diana rifles seem to have good barrels. Now if only Crosman would spend a few extra $$ in the barrel department.....
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Nation and Brazos,
You can debate the barrel issue forever, I doubt you'll get any definitive answer one way or another.
That being said, the old standbys are always up in the running. Lothar Walther, CZ, older BSA barrels, and some others that are proprietary to the brand, such as Steyr.
What one seems to forget, is what is done, (or not) to a barrel to make it shoot even better than out of the box. There is a LOT more to it than just a good barrel, with a good shooter, along with good projectiles.
Extreme benchrest is probably the best example. If I had to guess, well over 50%, if not more of all the competitors guns that entered, were anything but the stock barrels. There were barrels from all walks of life, even one off custom barrels. These barrels were specifically designed for one use.......supreme accuracy. They were measured, slugged, lapped and honed. And polished. And polished some more. They were heat treated, cold treated, some with special coatings that go beyond this shooters conception. Theve been indexed, harmonically balanced and tuned. They've been ported, machined and modified. And those are only the things that pop into my mind, I'm sure I have left out a bunch.
This year, I've "rediscovered " my TM 1000's awesome accuracy, particularly when feeding it H&N brand lead. With this combo, the gun shoots better than me, when it is operating properly.
That being said, I've also used my Benjamin Marauder with the old choked barrel, to great effect in Field Target competition. I've since upgraded to a newer design Crosman barrel, and in my opinion, with the proper velocity and tuning, will rival any LW barrel. All barrels coming from Crosman/Benjamin in .177.22 are of new design, and should not be ignored. I placed second at the Pyramyd Air Cup 2 years ago, next to World Champion Greg Sauve, using an old choked Crosman barrel that was actually damaged in the middle, but it shot lights out in the wind.
It goes to show, that it is the combination that works for you, and what the individual is happy and content with. Yes, even an old, damaged choked Crosman barrel.....
Tom Holland
You can debate the barrel issue forever, I doubt you'll get any definitive answer one way or another.
That being said, the old standbys are always up in the running. Lothar Walther, CZ, older BSA barrels, and some others that are proprietary to the brand, such as Steyr.
What one seems to forget, is what is done, (or not) to a barrel to make it shoot even better than out of the box. There is a LOT more to it than just a good barrel, with a good shooter, along with good projectiles.
Extreme benchrest is probably the best example. If I had to guess, well over 50%, if not more of all the competitors guns that entered, were anything but the stock barrels. There were barrels from all walks of life, even one off custom barrels. These barrels were specifically designed for one use.......supreme accuracy. They were measured, slugged, lapped and honed. And polished. And polished some more. They were heat treated, cold treated, some with special coatings that go beyond this shooters conception. Theve been indexed, harmonically balanced and tuned. They've been ported, machined and modified. And those are only the things that pop into my mind, I'm sure I have left out a bunch.
This year, I've "rediscovered " my TM 1000's awesome accuracy, particularly when feeding it H&N brand lead. With this combo, the gun shoots better than me, when it is operating properly.
That being said, I've also used my Benjamin Marauder with the old choked barrel, to great effect in Field Target competition. I've since upgraded to a newer design Crosman barrel, and in my opinion, with the proper velocity and tuning, will rival any LW barrel. All barrels coming from Crosman/Benjamin in .177.22 are of new design, and should not be ignored. I placed second at the Pyramyd Air Cup 2 years ago, next to World Champion Greg Sauve, using an old choked Crosman barrel that was actually damaged in the middle, but it shot lights out in the wind.
It goes to show, that it is the combination that works for you, and what the individual is happy and content with. Yes, even an old, damaged choked Crosman barrel.....
Tom Holland
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Let me start out by saying I’m no expert in barrels! And I don’t disagree with all that you’ve said about barrels Tom, but my opinion is there is only so much you can do to a barrel!, if it doesn’t shoot from the beginning ( providing it’s straight, has a properly machined crown and lead) cyro treating, heat & Reheat treating, lapping-over lapping, muzzle brakes, air strippers, internal coatings etc. are all probably a big waste of time and money!, most manufacturers sponsoring shooters, with the Resouces available to them will just keep fitting barrels until they find that “Hummer” of a barrel!, now all this being said brings up a interesting point for me... that is if a Manufacturer wants me to buy his gun based on EBR or whatever competition! It better be exactly as it would come off the assembly line and into that shipping box! So maybe they should start an all stock un-modified class with a limit on Ftlbs? Honestly I don’t put alot into EBR, because I truly believe there are 100’s of shooters you don’t hear or see on utube that could win these events with some pretty standard equipment! And I’m sure you would do well there to Tom, it’s more about the shooter skill set than the latest gadget! Just my humble opinion.
Joe
Joe
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Nomo,
I do agree with you 100% on the barrel needs to be a shooter from the get go, without the basic attributes of a barrel, that you mentioned above, a barrel is, well, just another barrel. I know a couple of benchrest shooters that keep trying barrel after barrel, until they get the "sweetest" one in their opinion. They'll index it and shoot it in the wind for the tightest possible groups. I also know personally many of the shooters that did compete in EBR, and there are a good many of them with highly modified versions of regular rigs, and the others I know with just stock out of the box setups. Don't get me wrong, both groups have won medals all around, but as far as EBR is concerned, I'm willing to bet that most of the top finishers had tricked out custom rigs and barrels. This would be an interesting survey of all the EBR competitors on what they did to their equipment........or didn't.
As for me, I'd like to try a benchrest match or 2, but I know that the accuracy of the rigs that I have, just won't cut it. I'm an avid FT competitor, and I do a lot of testing at the bench. Accuracy to me is a ragged hole at 30 yards, and even with some of my high end setups won't produce anything like that most of the time.
Ahhhhhh, the continuous search for supreme accuracy is always a chore, sometimes rewarding, sometimes not. It's probably the one thing most of us strive to do in order to find that one perfectly tuned and performing setup.......so, the search continues.........
Tom Holland
I do agree with you 100% on the barrel needs to be a shooter from the get go, without the basic attributes of a barrel, that you mentioned above, a barrel is, well, just another barrel. I know a couple of benchrest shooters that keep trying barrel after barrel, until they get the "sweetest" one in their opinion. They'll index it and shoot it in the wind for the tightest possible groups. I also know personally many of the shooters that did compete in EBR, and there are a good many of them with highly modified versions of regular rigs, and the others I know with just stock out of the box setups. Don't get me wrong, both groups have won medals all around, but as far as EBR is concerned, I'm willing to bet that most of the top finishers had tricked out custom rigs and barrels. This would be an interesting survey of all the EBR competitors on what they did to their equipment........or didn't.
As for me, I'd like to try a benchrest match or 2, but I know that the accuracy of the rigs that I have, just won't cut it. I'm an avid FT competitor, and I do a lot of testing at the bench. Accuracy to me is a ragged hole at 30 yards, and even with some of my high end setups won't produce anything like that most of the time.
Ahhhhhh, the continuous search for supreme accuracy is always a chore, sometimes rewarding, sometimes not. It's probably the one thing most of us strive to do in order to find that one perfectly tuned and performing setup.......so, the search continues.........
Tom Holland
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Agree 100% Tom, common goal for most of us is the best accuracy we can achieve within are means!
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When I posted above I thought the root of the questions was what barrels are most likely to be considered good FT barrels. EBR seems to be taking this to a whole new level. I would like to see a post on what steps are taken to take a good barrel to a great barrel, EBR worthy, as that would be quite interesting. I shoot FT so whatever I can learn about the steps to make a great EBR barrel surely would be good for FT. I would also like to learn more about why one barrel would shoot better in the wind than another barrel? Don't take than the wrong way I am just trying to process this in my mind. If I have a barrel that shoots lights out without any wind what would make it not a good wind barrel compared to other barrels (that don't shoot lights out with no wind) in the wind? Again I do not know anything about EBR and am just trying to understand and learn something. Like I said above this is probably better to start in a new post and not hijack the original post by the OP. There are so many barrels made by so many manufacturers, some good some bad no matter who made them, this would be a good new thread to start.
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the further a person shoots twist rate and fps become a factor. and poly barrels and smooth twist are good shooting barrels.
the poly barrel on my raw is more accurate than the lw barrel on the same gun.
so it all come down to testing as well as finding the right lot# on the tin... and test test and more testing!
the poly barrel on my raw is more accurate than the lw barrel on the same gun.
so it all come down to testing as well as finding the right lot# on the tin... and test test and more testing!
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AA and Brazos,
You are 100% right. As I said in my above post, I used a damaged Crosman choked barrel, along with H&N Sniper Mediums that were from their initial run of those pellets. I have NEVER shot a more accurate gun, in the wind or otherwise. Those pellets were soon depleted, and I was never to achieve that same accuracy out of that gun ever again. A lot more of the FT game relies on the right peller, with the right compatible barrel.
As for just a barrel for FT, there are SO MANY different types of rigs and setups, it's almost impossible to say which are better. You'll have a Steyr shooting lights out over a TM 1000, and the next match, the guy shooting an FX Royale 400 will run away from them. Next match, you might not even see any of the above guns and respective barrels in the mix at all.
All of that said, most accurate barrels used for FT usually have been slightly modified for the game. A light polishing of the barrel, inspection with a borescope, and thousands of pellets being tested of every size, shape, weight and brand. As I said before........the neverending quest for supreme accuracy continues.......good luck and good shooting
Tom Holland
You are 100% right. As I said in my above post, I used a damaged Crosman choked barrel, along with H&N Sniper Mediums that were from their initial run of those pellets. I have NEVER shot a more accurate gun, in the wind or otherwise. Those pellets were soon depleted, and I was never to achieve that same accuracy out of that gun ever again. A lot more of the FT game relies on the right peller, with the right compatible barrel.
As for just a barrel for FT, there are SO MANY different types of rigs and setups, it's almost impossible to say which are better. You'll have a Steyr shooting lights out over a TM 1000, and the next match, the guy shooting an FX Royale 400 will run away from them. Next match, you might not even see any of the above guns and respective barrels in the mix at all.
All of that said, most accurate barrels used for FT usually have been slightly modified for the game. A light polishing of the barrel, inspection with a borescope, and thousands of pellets being tested of every size, shape, weight and brand. As I said before........the neverending quest for supreme accuracy continues.......good luck and good shooting
Tom Holland
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I like LW poly for jsb pellets, and HW barrels for crosman pellets in FT hunter and freestyle class.
My first post... The spellcheck sucks.
My first post... The spellcheck sucks.
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