considering both ,and after research notice bullshark has a large following. trying to learn and figure out. thx.
N/A Best newbie air rifle? bullshark .22 or avenger .22 ??? and why?
- Thread starter Joshua777
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Stoeger Bullshark might have large following somewhere, not here. Had to look it up, after seeing, recalled this is the one that stressed the importance of different colored changeable grip inserts with an odd drop-down front grip. Non-regulated, 200 Bar, advertising 1,000 FPS with non-lead pellets, not even in same league as Air Venturi Avenger. Avenger has been at, or near, top of list for "starter" PCPs for some time, 300 BAR fill, externally adjusted HS/regulator and solid accuracy. The recent release of an upgraded version, the Avenge-X, will further solidify this platform's importance towards value-oriented PCP ownership. WM
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I have the XM1 Bullshark in .22 caliber. The gun is regulated. It can be safely filled to the 250 bar and has a 265 cc air tube. The regulator is set at140 at the factory. The hammer spring is easily adjustable. It is located in the rear of the gun just above the shoulder pad. I shoot with the factory tune and get 60 good shots before re-filling. I shoot JSB and JTS 18.3 gr pellets very accurately at 890 fps on a 30 yard range in my backyard. The gun weighs 6.2 pounds with out a scope. It also has a side cocking lever. The gun is made by Snowpeak for Stoeger. It is the P-35 with a different stock and a barrel which is a little longer. The gun has baffles built in the barrel shroud which I find to be backyard friendly. If you want to add a moderator there is a standard built in adapter. There is a Stoeger Bullshark thread which you may find helpful. Also, Jim D has a world of information about these guns. I am very happy with my Bullshark .22 caliber.
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I find that when everyone seems to be praising one particular gun that it's usually a good idea to just get on that bandwagon. In this case, that's the Avenger. I can't recall a single bad review of that particular rifle and many of the people praising it have a lot of knowledge about airguns, folks like Tom Gaylord.
The Bullshark may very well be an exemplary rifle, but I'd go with the Avenger simply because the conventional wisdom seems to be that it is an exceptionally good value for the price.
The Bullshark may very well be an exemplary rifle, but I'd go with the Avenger simply because the conventional wisdom seems to be that it is an exceptionally good value for the price.
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It seems like we cant go anywhere, without hearing great things about the Avenger, and the Avenger X!
Even though its looked at as a entry level, "beginer" gun, its very appealing due to its accuracy, rave reviews, and very low cost.
If Air Venture ever introduces a short, carbine version of the Avenger, they would have me hooked!
Even though its looked at as a entry level, "beginer" gun, its very appealing due to its accuracy, rave reviews, and very low cost.
If Air Venture ever introduces a short, carbine version of the Avenger, they would have me hooked!
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The Stoeger XM1 Bullshark .22 is an excellent gun. The price per performance is outstanding. I've had all the more expensive guns (Taipan, FX, Daystate. Huben, Edgun, etc), and for the money, the XM1 Bullshark cannot be beat IMHO. It's not in the same category as the above expensive guns, but compared to the other under $500 guns, this one is great. Yes, we are probably on our own if it breaks, but Snowpeak has a fairly good reputation for making guns.
Here is a link to my post in the Stoeger XM1 Bullshark thread in this forum:
The Stoeger MX1 Bullsharks are here
I have all three calibers and there has been no need for any "tinkering". I have made a very few adjustments to the hammer spring and lighten the trigger a bit but that's it it's already regulated, no need to replace it, my shot to shot is extremely consistent if you want let me know I can show...
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I have an original Avenger (25 caliber) and 3 P35s. If you do not like the looks of the bullshark you should look at the P35s, the stock is different and is plain black plastic. But not cheap thin plastic like my original Avenger. The P35 stock is OK IMHO. The original Avenger stock is not. Usable but that's about it.
Not sure if the OP is comparing the Avenger bullpup to the Stoeger bullshark or the long Avenger like I have. The Avenger bullpup is rear cocking which would not work for me, I shoot from my left shoulder. Most people do not like rear cocking, I think. The Avenger has an externally adjustable regulator, however. The reg on the P35 or bullshark is not hard to adjust but you have to take the large nut the manometer is on off the end of the airgun (after degassing). Then you loosen a 12mm nut and turn a screw with a straight slot. The nut and screw are at the other end of the airtube so it's a bit fiddly but I've done it a dozen times or more and it isn't really a big deal. The Avenger has a gauge for the regulator pressure which the P35 and bullshark do not have. My avenger does not really use it's shroud for sound regulation and it is pretty loud. A DonnyFL Tanto and adapter solved that but it was about another $150. I have inexpensive 3D printed moderators in my P35s which are just as quiet, didn't make the gun so hugely long, and cost less than $20.
A key difference for me is in the use of plastic. The P35 and bullshark have plastic stocks but the working parts of the gun are metal. My Avenger has plastic nuts at both ends of the shroud which are plastic and a flimsy shroud support on the barrel that is also plastic. There is a plastic cover over the action but I don't think it's functional. It looks like part of the trigger mechanism is plastic on my Avenger. It all works but I like the greater use of metal in my P35s. I think the Avenge X probably fixed some of my issues with my Avenger but I'm not sure which. Seems like I read the action is all metal now. I also like the caliber changing capability of the Avenge X.
Original Avenger versus bullshark or P35 I would definitely go with the P35 or bullshark. Avenge X it depends to me on whether you prefer a long gun or bullpup. If you are OK with a long gun the Avenge X might be the way to go.
Accuracy is probably similar for these guns. The are all made in China. My 3 P35s seem to have a range of accuracy. I shot a 200 with my P35-22 on the 30 yard challenge but there is an Avenger that also shot a 200 with more Xs than me. But only one Avenger seems to have shot this well. My P35-177s best is a 194 I think. I just retuned my P35-25 and put a power plenum on it and shot a 194 with it too. But I think I can raise this some. The best of either the P35s or Avengers seems like it is right there with much more expensive guns but I don't think it is realistic to think that each copy of either gun will shoot this well. The 10 ring on the 30 yard challenge target is only about 1/8th of an inch in diameter and the X is just a dot. So a gun that will shoot in the low 190s is still pretty accurate from my point of view. I doubt even all $1000 airguns will shot a 200. I don't think you can count on better accuracy from an Avenger or a bullshark. I think you should pray about it or hope to get lucky if you want one that will shoot a 200.
Not sure if the OP is comparing the Avenger bullpup to the Stoeger bullshark or the long Avenger like I have. The Avenger bullpup is rear cocking which would not work for me, I shoot from my left shoulder. Most people do not like rear cocking, I think. The Avenger has an externally adjustable regulator, however. The reg on the P35 or bullshark is not hard to adjust but you have to take the large nut the manometer is on off the end of the airgun (after degassing). Then you loosen a 12mm nut and turn a screw with a straight slot. The nut and screw are at the other end of the airtube so it's a bit fiddly but I've done it a dozen times or more and it isn't really a big deal. The Avenger has a gauge for the regulator pressure which the P35 and bullshark do not have. My avenger does not really use it's shroud for sound regulation and it is pretty loud. A DonnyFL Tanto and adapter solved that but it was about another $150. I have inexpensive 3D printed moderators in my P35s which are just as quiet, didn't make the gun so hugely long, and cost less than $20.
A key difference for me is in the use of plastic. The P35 and bullshark have plastic stocks but the working parts of the gun are metal. My Avenger has plastic nuts at both ends of the shroud which are plastic and a flimsy shroud support on the barrel that is also plastic. There is a plastic cover over the action but I don't think it's functional. It looks like part of the trigger mechanism is plastic on my Avenger. It all works but I like the greater use of metal in my P35s. I think the Avenge X probably fixed some of my issues with my Avenger but I'm not sure which. Seems like I read the action is all metal now. I also like the caliber changing capability of the Avenge X.
Original Avenger versus bullshark or P35 I would definitely go with the P35 or bullshark. Avenge X it depends to me on whether you prefer a long gun or bullpup. If you are OK with a long gun the Avenge X might be the way to go.
Accuracy is probably similar for these guns. The are all made in China. My 3 P35s seem to have a range of accuracy. I shot a 200 with my P35-22 on the 30 yard challenge but there is an Avenger that also shot a 200 with more Xs than me. But only one Avenger seems to have shot this well. My P35-177s best is a 194 I think. I just retuned my P35-25 and put a power plenum on it and shot a 194 with it too. But I think I can raise this some. The best of either the P35s or Avengers seems like it is right there with much more expensive guns but I don't think it is realistic to think that each copy of either gun will shoot this well. The 10 ring on the 30 yard challenge target is only about 1/8th of an inch in diameter and the X is just a dot. So a gun that will shoot in the low 190s is still pretty accurate from my point of view. I doubt even all $1000 airguns will shot a 200. I don't think you can count on better accuracy from an Avenger or a bullshark. I think you should pray about it or hope to get lucky if you want one that will shoot a 200.
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Just noticed question references a "newbe". My Avenger came with a decent manual, my P35s came with a brochure promoting SPA guns with almost no information on the P35. I have been able to figure things out. Fortunately the P35 is a redesigned P15 which has been around awhile and there are good youtubes on how to work on it. The bullshark is pretty much a cosmetically changed P35. I try to help others when I can. But a newbe could find a P35 (or bullshark) a bit frustrating. The confusion over regulation is because the documentation with the gun doesn't say one way or the other. Let alone how to adjust it. It's a pretty straight forward gun but SPA should provide better documentation.
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Crazy that they don't even mention really any of the functional attributes on the Stoeger site. Honestly like WM mentioned they market it like nerf markets their guns, like a toy. I learned from this thread that I kind of want a Bullshark now!The Stoeger XM1 Bullshark .22 is an excellent gun. The price per performance is outstanding. I've had all the more expensive guns (Taipan, FX, Daystate. Huben, Edgun, etc), and for the money, the XM1 Bullshark cannot be beat IMHO. It's not in the same category as the above expensive guns, but compared to the other under $500 guns, this one is great. Yes, we are probably on our own if it breaks, but Snowpeak has a fairly good reputation for making guns.
Here is a link to my post in the Stoeger XM1 Bullshark thread in this forum:
The Stoeger MX1 Bullsharks are here
I have all three calibers and there has been no need for any "tinkering". I have made a very few adjustments to the hammer spring and lighten the trigger a bit but that's it it's already regulated, no need to replace it, my shot to shot is extremely consistent if you want let me know I can show...
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Have you considered the Benjamin Akela bullpup? I have had both the .177 and .22. I recommend the .22 cal. Benjamin is a huge company and stands behind their guns. There are plenty of YouTube videos on the Akela. Sub 12 airgunners in particular has a series of excellent videos on the Akela.
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OK..... thanks guys really appreciate......love the bullshark , but prefer the longer full length rifles. also really liken the adjustability of the avenger, and LIGTHNESS. leaning towards the synthetic stock. BUT!!!! have heard a few negative reviews about stock? i hear they can be tinny/hollow...and even PERHAPS EFFECT ACCUARCY???. i dont think this is the case from my studys??? loving the light 6 lbs.???? but anyone out there really think the wood is much more superior ??? ive heard its hollow ,but verys sturdy and well made?
again thanks one and all . appreciate your help and input. j
again thanks one and all . appreciate your help and input. j
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If you like full length rifles, take a look at the regular Stoeger XM1 as well. I picked one up a couple years ago from MidwayUSA with a coupon code for just under $200. It's a great rifle at that price. Definitely entry level, but it'd be a fine starter rifle or just something to use for plinking in the yard. I don't shoot it regularly, but I haven't had any problems with it. It's ugly but less so than the Bullshark.
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Avenger gets my vote. Probably the best bang for the buck going. They shoot great out of the box with zero tuning needed but it has screws to turn if you so desire? I’ve recommended them to several of my friends and they have been really happy with theirs. I’d spend a few extra bucks to get the wood stock as it’s a bit more accurate than the synthetic stock. Because it’s a bit flexy.
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If you prefer the full length rifles then you can’t go wrong with a first gen Avenger wood stock or any of the new second gen Avenge-X. Currently I own 4 one first gen and three second gen Avenge-X two .22 and two .25 cal but only one of them have the synthetic stock, the rest are in wood. The synthetic stock of the new X it’s much better quality than the hollow one that came in the first gen Avengers. But I consider the wood stock to have a greater fit and finish than the synthetic stock, but maybe my opinion it's a little biased since I am a huge fan of the wood stocks.OK..... thanks guys really appreciate......love the bullshark , but prefer the longer full length rifles. also really liken the adjustability of the avenger, and LIGTHNESS. leaning towards the synthetic stock. BUT!!!! have heard a few negative reviews about stock? i hear they can be tinny/hollow...and even PERHAPS EFFECT ACCUARCY???. i dont think this is the case from my studys??? loving the light 6 lbs.???? but anyone out there really think the wood is much more superior ??? ive heard its hollow ,but verys sturdy and well made?
again thanks one and all . appreciate your help and input. j
The accuracy between my two .25 cal Avenge-X are exactly the same despite one have the synthetic and the other the wood stock, but if you ask me what caliber has better accuracy than the other then definitely the .25 it’s more accurate than the .22 cal. PS a word of caution sometimes the pellets of the .22 can get jammed randomly between the barrel and the oem mags, but I solved this issue with the aftermarket high capacity Maple magazines made in Canada.
Also remember that is a must to install your scope with the high rings to be able to use any of this new oem or aftermarket high capacity mags otherwise they will not fit. Also If you usually use your airgun in your backyard only like me and won’t like to disturb your neighbors, I strongly recommend the Hugget snipe moderator over the other options that are available in the market. I have done a tone of testing between the most popular moderators that are available in the market including the famous DannyFL Sumo, the FX and the 3D printed Cameron and Buck-Rail vs the Hugget. I hope this info can help you to make the right decision, I took a video shooting one of my Avenge-X .25 cal airguns at around 900 fps from my backyard, to show everyone that they’re completely backyard friendly as well
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Since someone here recommend the Benjamin Akela bullpup airgun, I am goin to share with you this very interesting review about the pros and cons that this particular unregulated airgun have.
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If you prefer the full length rifles then you can’t go wrong with a first gen Avenger wood stock or any of the new second gen Avenge-X. Currently I own 4 one first gen and three second gen Avenge-X two .22 and two .25 cal but only one of them have the synthetic stock, the rest are in wood. The synthetic stock of the new X it’s much better quality than the hollow one that came in the first gen Avengers. But I consider the wood stock to have a greater fit and finish than the synthetic stock, but maybe my opinion it's a little biased since I am a huge fan of the wood stocks.
The accuracy between my two .25 cal Avenge-X are exactly the same despite one have the synthetic and the other the wood stock, but if you ask me what caliber has better accuracy than the other then definitely the .25 it’s more accurate than the .22 cal. PS a word of caution sometimes the pellets of the .22 cal get jammed randomly between the barrel and the oem mags, but I solved this issue with the aftermarket high capacity Maple magazines made in Canada.
Also remember that is a must to install your scope with the high rings to be able to use any of this new oem or aftermarket high capacity mags otherwise they will not fit. Also If you usually use your airgun in your backyard only like me and won’t like to disturb your neighbors, I strongly recommend the Hugget snipe moderator over any other option that are available in the market. I have done a tone of testing between the most popular moderators that are available in the market including the famous DannyFL Sumo, the FX and the 3D printed Cameron and Buck-Rail vs the Hugget. I hope this info can help you to make the right decision, I took a video shooting one of my Avenge-X .25 cal airguns at around 900 fps from my backyard, to show everyone that they’re completely backyard friendly as well.
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hey ray thanks alot for info. great response and very helpful. glad to hear that theres no difference in accuracy wood vs synthetic. from my studies thats what i'd gathered. and yes hugget looks sweet....but very expensive. man you got a pretty harrem to play with. and not a bad range! congrads.... do you have any idea the amount of decibel decrease with the buck rail. gotta stick in my budget....thanks one and all for the great advice and reccomendations..j
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I haven't tried a buck rail on my Avenger but I think my DonnyFL Tanto makes it pretty quiet. I also used a buck rail on my Prod for awhile until I broke it and it was nice and quiet. My guess is it is worthwhile.
The plastic stock on the original Avenger is in 3 pieces. The butt piece bolts on kind of conventionally but the front part is in two pieces to sandwich the action. The plastic pic rail attaches poorly to the made front pieces and is wobbly. The stock works but it's the worst I've seen. I'll probably make a wood stock for mine. The double air tubes of the Avenger is a complication for the stock. It has to be high to cover the bottom part length tube and go up onto the second full length tube.
I have not shot a wood stock Avenger but I've made wood stocks for my P35s and they shoot exactly the same in them as they did in the plastic originals. The stock on an air rifle is usually nowhere near the barrel so it's not surprising they don't typically affect accuracy.
I think a wood stock original Avenger should be a nice rifle - unless you can make a stock for the plastic one. I would also assume the new Avenger is a bit better. But if you prefer a full length rifle I think the Avenger would be a great choice in this price range.
The plastic stock on the original Avenger is in 3 pieces. The butt piece bolts on kind of conventionally but the front part is in two pieces to sandwich the action. The plastic pic rail attaches poorly to the made front pieces and is wobbly. The stock works but it's the worst I've seen. I'll probably make a wood stock for mine. The double air tubes of the Avenger is a complication for the stock. It has to be high to cover the bottom part length tube and go up onto the second full length tube.
I have not shot a wood stock Avenger but I've made wood stocks for my P35s and they shoot exactly the same in them as they did in the plastic originals. The stock on an air rifle is usually nowhere near the barrel so it's not surprising they don't typically affect accuracy.
I think a wood stock original Avenger should be a nice rifle - unless you can make a stock for the plastic one. I would also assume the new Avenger is a bit better. But if you prefer a full length rifle I think the Avenger would be a great choice in this price range.
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