Best way to level a scope

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You can use wedges... You can use fix it sticks scope jack.. you can do levels on the turrets... But all those ways are WRONG. That will level the scope body to the rail... But it may not level the reticle and adjustment. All that isn't necessarily perfect with the reticle/turrent tracking. So I use those methods as a baseline before I go ACTUALLY get the scope leveled

I do this at a indoor range. You sight it in at 35 or 50y or whatever. Then put a target out at say 70-100y with the target leveled perfectly. Up down and left right have to be perfectly level on the target.
Sit down with the rifle in a vise so you can hold it still and level. Then dial in your elevation for 100y and shoot at the target. If the scope is still unlevel, you will have picked up windage from the elevation adjustment. Adjust scope and shoot again. Do this till elevation change on the turrets doesn't move your pellet left or right.
 
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I set up the permanent mounted bubble level first and foremost, making certain it is true with the cross hairs and then dial to the bottom of the tracking elevation to double check the bubble to the verticle line. Only then do I move to the actual mounting set up and shooting it in (for proper cant with relation to the barrel). Using a plumb line, eyeball or the flashlight method, I don't even start with the scope mounted on a rifle sometimes.

IMG_20230110_155737863~2.jpg
 
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Triggers and 4X4s said:
Assuming that each shot is at the exact speed (fps), barometric conditions, wind speed, rifle position, etc.

It is practically impossible to do an exact ladder shoot test, too many factors at play.
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Well, I must be doing it wrong after all these years of shooting long guns with optics. Let me know when you achieve the perfect description of everything you just described.

I guess I'll just stick with my experience, and you stick with yours.

OIP (2).jpg
 
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nervoustrig said:
Most scope mounting strategies that involve the use of levels or wedges are making a variety of assumptions about the perfectness of critical features of the gun, scope, and mounts. Granted, frequently these items are close enough that you’ll get a better result than by just eyeballing it, but it’s frustrating to see expensive “professional” jigs that will leave you with an improperly aligned scope if something isn’t perfect. For example, it’s not uncommon for the reticle to be rotated a couple of degrees relative to the turret caps, or for 3/8mm or 11mm rings to be offset slightly, or a variety of other issues.

What matters is that the reticle is aligned to the bore. The good news is it can be done with no special tools. All you need is a mirror.

But first let's establish that the requirements to eliminate cant error are:

1. Align the scope's reticle with the rifle's barrel.
2. Hold the reticle level when shooting.

Item 1 deals with scope cant…i.e. mounting the scope incorrectly.

Item 2 deals with gun cant…i.e. holding the gun incorrectly.

To correctly align the scope to the barrel, set up a mirror at a distance of, say, 5 yards and set your AO to 10 yards. Look through the scope at your reflection in the mirror. Twist the scope in the mounts until the vertical bar of the reticle simultaneously bisects both the muzzle and objective bell. Then lock it down. At this point you have eliminated scope cant (item 1). If it's hard to see your muzzle, add a little dot of White Out or take a dot from a hole punch and tape it to the muzzle with clear tape.

Now to eliminate rifle cant, install and use a level. View a known good plumb line (e.g. hanging string) through the scope and orient the rifle so it precisely aligns to it. Now affix your level so it shows level. From now on when you're shooting, hold the rifle so it shows level and you can be sure you've eliminated both potential sources of cant error.

By the way, don't buy a level that attaches to the scope rail. There is no guarantee it will show level. Instead, get one that attaches to the scope tube so you can rotate it and lock it down where it shows the proper level.
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I don't consider $30 expensive

Bore Sight Kit Scope Leveling Kit Precise Scope Mounting Kit Universal and Precision Bubble Leveling System with Storage Case for Maintenance​

Brand: GOWQUAS
Amazon

Level gun, attach barrel level, attach rings/scope, level, torque, done Personally I like levels on my gun/scope. I've gone from awful to mediocre.
 
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FWIW I don't consider $30 expensive either, but neither would I spend $30 on a tool that is fundamentally incapable of guaranteeing the scope is installed correctly. And certainly not when the mirror hanging on the bathroom wall will guarantee it.

The Gowquas jig appears to be a copy of the Wheeler jig discussed here:

Wheeler Engineering Scope leveling kit

Hey guys! I've been eyeing up the Wheeler leveling kit for quite some time so, I decided to make a video review on it and some other tools from Wheeler. (The video's down at the bottom if you want to skip right to it.) I'll share some quick thoughts on each tool set here but, for more details...
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com
 
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Here is a situation that I am facing. I was at the range today working on my dope and I have a cant issue. Zeroed at 25 yards. All of my close shots were hitting left, every shot from 10 yards to 19 yards, so every time I clicked. Every shot from 30 yards to 50 yards was hitting right.
I understand the principles of scope cant and rifle cant. I set up this scope the same way that I always have: use a mirror to check bore alignment, level the cross hairs to a plumb bob.
But this year I'm going back to dialing instead of holding over. Someone in this thread said something about levelling to the elevation turret if dialing rather than levelling to the reticle. And then my head exploded.

The rifle is still zeroed from this morning at the range, so I just went into the other room to do a little test. I drew a fine horizontal line with 4 cross hatches and hung it at 11 yards, making the line level.
First shots were to the left, just like at the range. I shot while canting the rifle in each direction to figure out which way to turn the scope. Then I loosened the mounts and twisted a little clockwise, levelling the crosshairs on the horizontal target line. I eventually got the pellets hitting straight (and a little high). Then I levelled the scope level to the level target line. (I just used level three times in a sentence and I'm ok with that).
Then I put out a vertical line and I shot while turning the turret back and forth between the zero and the 11 yard mark.

I'll go to the range tomorrow to confirm that I've removed the cant at the longer ranges.

Thanks for this discussion. I forgot that setting up a scope for clicking is a little different from holding over.
 
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Racenviper said:
Looking through the scope at a mirror will show the alignment of the reticle to the barrel.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, it doesn't show the alignment of the elevation mechanism to the barrel. The issue I found was that after aligning the reticle to the barrel and to a plumb bob, the tracking on the elevation was 1 or 2 degrees off. So when I gave the turret 50 clicks, it was no longer centered. This wouldn't matter if you are holding over because the reticle doesn't move, but if you are sliding the reticle up and down you can introduce another element that has to be square to the bore.

After correcting the issue last night at 11 yards, I went to the range today and confirmed it at 50 yards. I also made sure the the dope was still accurate. So that's one less excuse for me.

My future scope levelling procedure for scopes that will be "clickers" will be to align the reticle to the bore, then shoot at a plumb line with different turret rotations. Once I'm shooting in a straight vertical line across a full turret rotation, I'll set the scope level to that line and confirm at distance.
 
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Clicking up and down from a zero at distance is an interesting idea. If you can shoot a totally straight vertical line, ever, you shoot better than I do, however. I'm not saying that it is a bad way to set your scope. But I think any way you set the scope has one or more sources of error at least potentially. But if your method gives you results you like, then it is a good method for you. I would be worried about my shooting throwing things off with this method.

Personally I like using a spacer and feeler gauge to get the scope level to the rail. I know the rail may not be flat and the bottom of the scope might not be flat but I think it's easier to hold machined parts to a tight tolerance than it is to use a tiny level to a tight tolerance or look at a plumb line and align to it with a tiny tolerance. Leveling to the rail may not work well for you but it's working well for me.
 
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Deerstalker said:
Excellent scope info at this site. https://www.rimfirecentral.com/thre...ounts-super-sticky-questions-try-here.496141/
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One of the first links I clicked on was the exact procedure I am talking about. This person had some improvements, but the overall was right on. I'm doing the process at 11 yards because I can do that in my house (no wind) and my gun gives one hole precision at 11 yards.

I'll paste the info from the link below:

"Staple a large sheet of paper to your target holder. I just use the back of an A-23/5 target. Haul your target stand out to 50 yards, get it situated so it won't wobble around in the wind, then use a 2' long or longer spirit level and wide-tip marker to draw a perfectly plumb line. Down near the bottom of the line, about 2" above the bottom, use a level (or square) to draw a perfectly level horizontal line. I usually set up a few vertical lines all at once, about 2" apart, then run one long horizontal line across the bottom.

Back at the firing line, shoot groups and adjust your scope until you are sighted in right on the intersection of the horizontal line and one of the vertical lines. Use the lines to align your crosshairs... that way you'll know that the scope is being held perfectly plumb and level even if your mount to the rifle isn't.

Once you're sighted in right on the intersection of the lines, turn your scope's elevation knob at least one complete revolution in the "up" direction. Now shoot another set of groups while still aiming at the same intersection of the two lines; make sure your scope is still being held level by using the lines on the target to align your crosshairs. If your scope is mounted perfectly plumb and level to the rifle this latest set of groups is going to fall right on your vertical line a few inches above your aiming point. If they do not, your scope is not perfectly centered above the bore of your rifle -- which will lead to some cant problems when you try to align your sights on target, especially at long ranges.

If your groups are off the line you need to twist your scope to get them where they should be. First, put a small piece of masking tape on the scope tube, right where it meets the ring. Use a pencil to make a witness mark showing the scope's current alignment with the upper edge of the bottom ring (this one isn't going to move around when you loosen the top half, eh?). Loosen the top half of the rings and twist the scope in the direction of the errant groups. If the groups were right of the line, twist the scope to the right. It won't take much twisting to have a major effect, so go slowly.... a little bit at a time works better than having to see-saw back and forth with large adjustments. Start wtih no more than 1/16" movement of the witness mark, and less would be fine too.

After twisting your scope in the proper direction and getting everything tightened down, turn your elevation knob back "down" to where it was when you started and get sighted in on the intersection of the lines again. Once sighted in there, give the knob at least one complete turn in the "up" direction and czech again. Repeat as necessary.

Once you get your scope perfectly centered above the bore (groups going straight up that vertical line) get your crosshairs lined up with the lines on the target and mount one of those anti-cant, bubble level devices to your scope. "
 
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Flashlight method…….I used two sticky notes on a wall marked with a level. I put the rifle in gun vise on my table and level it according to the picatinny rail. After mounting the scope I put the sunshade on and place a flashlight in the front of the scope which will put a shadow of the reticle onto the sticky notes marked with lines drawn to show level. Image shows back to the eyepiece of the scope like the old fashion projectors. The darker the room the better it works. I tried to load a short video I have but it will not load. My previous post shows three pictures. Hope I explained well enough, lol. I know it sounds goofy and I’m sure I will here about it but I am 63 and my dad taught me this a very long time ago. Fixit Sticks makes an interesting looking scope jack I may try also. Good luck, Chris
 
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There is a lot of time spent "leveling" scopes. And for the great majority of shooters, it's not always time well spent. If it's a BR rifle get the rifle in the rest, and then align the vertical cross hair with a plumb bob or similar weighted string. Even high dollar BR stocks are sometimes not perfectly inlet, and this method removes that as a variable. If a field rifle, just use your most likely shooting position, and align with the string. If you have a natural cant, it doesn't matter, the vertical cross hair is the important variable, not the position of the stock.
 
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After spinning around on the carpet for a few days, I've come up with my procedure for setting up a scope in the future.
I've come to two conclusions:
1) the scope level has to be set to the reticle, not the gun. Once the scope level is set for a scope, it's set for that scope.
2) the scope has to be aligned to the bore of the gun it's on. You can align it to the action, but the bore is more accurate.

Here's my new procedure:
Step 1 is to align the scope level to the reticle. So I take the scope off the gun, take a carpenters level and draw a thin vertical plumb line on a piece of paper taped to the wall, put the level on the floor, put the flat bottom of the scope body on the level (facing away from the wall) and shoot a flashlight into the objective end. Then I shim the level that the scope is sitting on until the reticle matches up with the line on the wall. Then I set the scope level and confirm a couple of times. So now the scope level should indicate the alignment of the reticle without any bearing as to the way it's mounted on the gun or if the reticle or turrets are misaligned. In other words, if the scope level indicates level, the reticle is level.

Step 2 is to align our now levelled reticle to the bore. For some guns you can do an in-between step and level the scope to the action, ie most break barrels have a nice flat spot near the breach where you can clip a magnetic level. Get the gun level, then rotate the scope (not the scope level, we are done touching that) until the level on the gun matches the scope level. This should get you pretty close, but the true test of reticle to bore alignment is to check it with a mirror. I set up a mirror at 5 yards and look through the scope. If the reticle is not going through the center of the bore, I rotate the scope until it's as exact as I can get it. Then I lock it down and confirm it.

Step 3 is field testing to make sure close shots and far shots are all centered. If close shots are hitting one direction and far shots are hitting the other direction, there's some cant in the system. The easy fix would be to adjust the scope level until the cant goes away, but I think the more accurate solution would be to confirm the scope level to reticle alignment in step 1 and rotate the scope itself to remove the cant. If the scope level is aligned to the reticle, any cant has to be from the relationship between the scope and the gun.

Most of this is re-hashing other posts in this thread, but I wanted to write this out so that the next time I get a new scope I don't have to sit through 50 contradictory youtube videos to remind myself of how to setup a scope. There are a lot of "special forces experts" out there that are happy to tell you how level the tops of the turret knobs are, or how precisely machined the picatinny rails are. This hasn't been my experience, so I wanted a procedure that just deals with the reticle and the bore because those are the two things that matter to me.
 
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Lot of methods expressed on this thread... all of which are assuming or eyeballing something is level, square, or true. Mirror, Brownell tool, bubble levels, etc... I've seen a couple of skewed barrels throw all that attention to detail right back into the tool bin only to end up canting the scope to compensate.

When I first got into shooting airguns, I would simply set up the scope to my eye then confirm on paper and adjust as necessary. It worked, but I wanted to be more efficient so I tried the bathroom mirror trick, its clever, but I'm still eyeballing the intersection. A scope mounted level still needs to be calibrated to the barrel and action. I'd love to get my hands on the brownell tool but they've been out of stock for years. I've often considered fabricating one but ultimately convenience has triumphed.

With most of my shooting a rail level is what I can see without breaking cheek contact so that's what I use. A rail level and a plumb line are my go to set up. Machining tolerances exposing themselves at target have been rare and in my case, were due to the barrel or scope not being true.
 
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Suggested reading on the Wheeler kit:

Wheeler Engineering Scope leveling kit

Hey guys! I've been eyeing up the Wheeler leveling kit for quite some time so, I decided to make a video review on it and some other tools from Wheeler. (The video's down at the bottom if you want to skip right to it.) I'll share some quick thoughts on each tool set here but, for more details...
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com

Like many scope mounting jigs, it relies on a variety of assumptions about the perfectness of the gun, mounts, and scope that may or may not be true.
 
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