Big bore and DIY Suppressors

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Nitro-Nasty

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Mar 9, 2022
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Texas, United States
So for the sake of being concise, I'll try to keep it brief.
Background:
- I would like to be able to do more suppressor designs and builds without having to deal with the Alphabet org and Form 1 applications. I have experience with this already.
- From my research so far it appears that a big bore air rifle is not considered a firearm and therefore does not have the same NFA restrictions as centerfires and rimfires.
- Therefore, something like a big-bore Texan might make for a good platform to try new suppressor designs with, and still have enough power for hunting Texas hogs and deer.
- I currently own two centerfire suppressors, one bought, one built (Form 4 and Form 1 respectively). Both are COMPLETELY legal. The DIY is my favorite... on a 6mm CM shooting 109 gr bullets at ~2900 fps (2000+ fpe) it can just about be shot with no hearing protection for the shooter. It's amazing.
- I am an experienced Engineer by trade with lots of design and implementation experience working in a very technically difficult field. I only mention this so it is clear I am not some dumb kid :).

So, the questions are:
- Are there any practical (legally speaking) issues with building DIY suppressors for a large bore PCP that I am overlooking?
- Is anyone aware of someone who got in trouble for owning and using PCP and centerfire suppressors, OF COURSE KNOWING THAT ONE IS NEVER USED ON THE OTHER? You never know sometimes with some of the LEOs out there. I have noticed that some of the PCP suppressors use completely different threading than those for centerfires, which is a really good idea IMO. Make them incompatible by design.
- Anything else I should consider?

Thanks in advance
 
I should also mention I am already into hunting with larger, subsonic ammo in suppressed rifles and really enjoy that. I handload 300 AAC Blackout using Lehigh max expansion 190 gr bullets which are very effective within 100 yards or so. So I understand the basics of the subsonic hunting game, and that is another appealing part of the PCP big bore area.
 
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Yeah I get that. In fact you should read about the Alphabet org shenanigans going on with Form 1 applications right now. In the opinion of many, including some NFA attorneys, they are basically violating due process. It's a mess. And I am not holding my breath on the Hearing Protection Act.

But I'd rather know going in what the deal is. I want to do this legally. I have seen discussions about suppressors here, but no DIY stuff so far. Is that verboten here?
 
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There are different allowed designs for airguns, but I'm not sure what makes them different. Obviously places like DonnyFL have worked out what is allowed and what isn't allowed without a tax stamp. Basically prototyping on an airgun with end result for firearm is going to land you in jail.

If you are really interested, should probably contact your closest Alphabet org office and start a conversation. They may be able to give you guidelines for making airgun devices legally without needing the tax stamp. I would also retain a firearms oriented lawyer, just in case. The retainer will be a small cost for peace of mind.



After that, on another forum specific talk about any kind of noise reduction device construction is prohibited. You can discuss owning them, and buying the permitted types, but not building them yourself. I assume the same goes for here, no forum owner wants a court order to turn over IP addresses and specific posts.
 
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Thanks. I am not interested in cross-pollinating between air rifles and firearms. I could see that being an issue.

There are a few forums where construction techniques for firearm suppressors are discussed openly, and legally. But not all allow that like that like you said, and it can be a touchy area.

Are there any DIYers here? If not, I can take this thread down and kill the discussion. 
 
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First, I am not a lawyer. Any advice herein is strictly the opinion of an uneducated person expressing unresearched opinion

As I understand it, if you contact the Alphabet org, they are required to provide an opinion (though not legally binding) whether your design is a silencer or not. Now having said that, they can take 6 months to get back to you.

Suppressors are a grey area as while airguns are not covered by Alphabet org, if you build a suppressor that can be used on a firearm that does come under the Alphabet org. It all comes down to the design. Intent becomes important and showing intent never to use on a firearm can help the cause, but not guaranteed.

Companies like Donny FL usually obtain letters from Alphabet org stating that their moderators when unmodified, are not silencers under FFA.

As for using a legally registered PB silencer on an air rifle, it is registered with Alphabet org, so I am unaware of any legal problems.

It is a grey area, so there is always risk. My son keeps telling me to be extremely careful when I print a new moderator for my airguns. (I have one on my printer for an Avenger right now) While they are plastic, legally if it can suppress a Powder Burner 1 db for 1 shot, Alphabet org could consider it a silencer. Courts consider intent, but that all depends on the judge and your lawyer. Keep the threading different, do not have any adapters to PB's on hand and if you need to deaden it more, perhaps use materials like felt as a sound deadener that a PB would destroy on the first shot. while not sure to convince Alphabet org, it goes a long way to show that the intent was an airgun only.

Or just build a new one and register it with Alphabet org. That should take all the issues of legality out of it.

such a weird world.

and remember, I am not a lawyer. Any advice herein is strictly the opinion of an uneducated person expressing unresearched opinion
 
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An expansoin chamber as big as you can get it and 5-7 K-baffles!

Did a 20" one for my 50 Texan and is is down right plesant to shoot without earmuffs.

I did try damping wool in the expansion chamber and it lasted...... well....... one shot!

Then i rebuilt most of the muffler and settled on air.



If you want i can tear it down and shoot a couple of pics.

I kept with a carbon fiber tube and all innards made of Delrin, then noone in their right mind can claim it is suitable to sit on a powder burner!!!
 
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do the words "can be converted to " and "even if destroyed on first shot " come to mind ?
Click to expand...

The problem is that there is a big push to confiscate and possible arrest people that own "solvent traps" because they can be easily converted.



If you look on Youtube, you'll find a video from a guy that got hassled because he bought a bunch of big diesel oil/fuel filters, he had to take them into his shop and show them that he repairs diesel trucks. Why someone thought making an oil filter adapter was a good idea. Yes I know, shouldn't be regulated in the first place.



Decided to look the video up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=270sLN5WL2I&ab_channel=TruckMaster
 
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First, I am not a lawyer. Any advice herein is strictly the opinion of an uneducated person expressing unresearched opinion

As I understand it, if you contact the Alphabet org, they are required to provide an opinion (though not legally binding) whether your design is a silencer or not. Now having said that, they can take 6 months to get back to you.

Suppressors are a grey area as while airguns are not covered by Alphabet org, if you build a suppressor that can be used on a firearm that does come under the Alphabet org. It all comes down to the design. Intent becomes important and showing intent never to use on a firearm can help the cause, but not guaranteed.

Companies like Donny FL usually obtain letters from Alphabet org stating that their moderators when unmodified, are not silencers under FFA.

As for using a legally registered PB silencer on an air rifle, it is registered with Alphabet org, so I am unaware of any legal problems.

It is a grey area, so there is always risk. My son keeps telling me to be extremely careful when I print a new moderator for my airguns. (I have one on my printer for an Avenger right now) While they are plastic, legally if it can suppress a Powder Burner 1 db for 1 shot, Alphabet org could consider it a silencer. Courts consider intent, but that all depends on the judge and your lawyer. Keep the threading different, do not have any adapters to PB's on hand and if you need to deaden it more, perhaps use materials like felt as a sound deadener that a PB would destroy on the first shot. while not sure to convince Alphabet org, it goes a long way to show that the intent was an airgun only.

Or just build a new one and register it with Alphabet org. That should take all the issues of legality out of it.

such a weird world.

and remember, I am not a lawyer. Any advice herein is strictly the opinion of an uneducated person expressing unresearched opinion
Click to expand...

I am inclined to believe anything plastic or 3D printed couldn’t even be considered a silencer for a firearm. Especially if you avoid carbon fiber nylons/polycarbonate and keep the threads to something that will not install on a firearm, It would explode instantly and do zero silencing under the pressures/heat a powder burner silencer is subject to. Even the more exotic printing materials wouldn’t live (but they may for one shot, so therefore a silencer made with such may possibly fall under the NFA jurisdiction). 


Sad part about it all… is every single gun law ever enacted is illegal and unconstitutional. Unalienable and shall not be infringed. It did not have a foot note that said “Till we change our mind in 1968”. The constitution, bill of rights, and all related founding documents were not written to tell you what your rights are, they were intended to limit and grant only certain powers to the government. They have gone far past their legal authority and have been tyrannical for a long long long time.

A felon cannot own a firearm due to the 1968 gun control act. BUT, did you know a felon can become a police officer and while on duty legally can posses and use a firearm? These laws were not created to protect the public. They were created to disarm them.

You can boil a live frog without it knowing it if you heat the water up slowly. And that is what has happened to this country. 


FYI I’m not a anarchist. I’m not anti government. But I am anti tyranny/socialism/communism. And we are living under it. It just has a “Land of the free” costume on it. 
 
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I've been asked this question more times than I can count. The answers are many, depending on the states you live in and in your knowledge of airguns, firearms, laws, and manufacturing. I believe the best answer to this question is to frankly steer clear of the topic altogether both in content and in practice. As for moderating an airgun, there are several options commercially available that are affordable. If you are talking big bore? Big bore airguns, even when moderated, are hardly quiet, and the problem with a big bore is (making an assumption here) that you are trying to shoot it in your backyard when neighbors are near? Correct? If you live in a fairly normal housing area, say >.5 acres, I would advise leave the airgun shooting to smaller calibers anyway because big bore airguns do introduce more than just the noise but safety concerns as well. So I guess what I am saying is, for big bore moderators shouldn't matter so much anyway. As for the small calibers, 0db, Orion the Igauna Hunter, Donnyfl and others provide products now that will fit your needs. I know that isn't necessarily the answer you wanted, but it is the one you deserve, to quote The Dark Night.

Kind regards,
-Atlas
 
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