Big game with limited power, .177 or .22?

[Buddy2023]

A member here ( can't remember the name ) took down a huge boar with his Maverick .177 I think tuned in the 60 FPE range but not sure.

A precise brain shot with a .177 at that power is devastating,......we have been brainwashed by the gun industry ( and by the archery industry too ) that you need XXX power minimum to achieve your goals,

But if you do everything right these goals can be achieved with much less,.....key word is everything right.

As Sam Fadala once said " You have to start with something." Even a 45# recurve bow is better than these pea shooters. I think using game animals as experiments to see if a certain air rifle will kill them is deplorable. In addition, I don't want to be anywhere near you when you shoot a wild boar with one of these air rifles and he ends up charging you and snuffling around in your guts with his tusks. Look, I love air rifles and I think it's facinating how far they've come in their development, but they have their limitations. Of course there are air rifles made today that are perfectly capable of reliably taking large game, but that's beyond the scope of this thread. I don't mean to be "that guy" but as a hunter I have grave reservations about using air rifles at this power level for big game hunting.

 

[Emu]

First jabalina I took was with an Evanix .22 AR6 at 60 fpe and H&N baracudas. Dead on it’s feet with a brain shot.

ALL OTHERS have been taken with.25, 30 and .357.

.30 and .357 are much adequate.

I would never try to kill anything bigger than a rabbit with a .177. The wound could be very small notwithstanding it gets a pass through.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

As Sam Fadala once said " You have to start with something." Even a 45# recurve bow is better than these pea shooters. I think using game animals as experiments to see if a certain air rifle will kill them is deplorable. In addition, I don't want to be anywhere near you when you shoot a wild boar with one of these air rifles and he ends up charging you and snuffling around in your guts with his tusks. Look, I love air rifles and I think it's facinating how far they've come in their development, but they have their limitations. Of course there are air rifles made today that are perfectly capable of reliably taking large game, but that's beyond the scope of this thread. I don't mean to be "that guy" but as a hunter I have grave reservations about using air rifles at this power level for big game hunting.

We are talking Brain shots here, not talking Heart/Lung if that was the case I'm the biggest proponent of Caliber, I always suggest .50 and up.
Look caliber is irrelevant as long as you have the right projectile and enough power behind it to penetrate the skull and go deep into the brain....at that point it's all over wether you use a .177 or a .50 ( just look at the video I've posted of the .177 kill, a 700 FPE .50 cal wouldn't have been any better )

you do not experiment on live game, you do a ton of testing a t home before you go in the field ....or at least that is what I used to do until I was confident that if I did my part the gun/pellet combination was a go.

Been charged a couple times by boars and both times was when I was bowhunting , with airguns they have just dropped on the spot and I've taken a boatload of hogs with airguns, a boatload.


The game is simple :

Know the anatomy of your prey,
know exactly the angle you need to have to take the shot,
Be extremely patient,
get close,
be prepared to pass the shot unless it's perfect.



If you follow these guidelines you'll be alright.

 

[Buddy2023]

We are talking Brain shots here, not talking Heart/Lung if that was the case I'm the biggest proponent of Caliber, I always suggest .50 and up.
Look caliber is irrelevant as long as you have the right projectile and enough power behind it to penetrate the skull and go deep into the brain....at that point it's all over wether you use a .177 or a .50 ( just look at the video I've posted of the .177 kill, a 700 FPE .50 cal wouldn't have been any better )

you do not experiment on live game, you do a ton of testing a t home before you go in the field ....or at least that is what I used to do until I was confident that if I did my part the gun/pellet combination was a go.

Been charged a couple times by boars and both times was when I was bowhunting , with airguns they have just dropped on the spot and I've taken a boatload of hogs with airguns, a boatload.


The game is simple :

Know the anatomy of your prey,
know exactly the angle you need to have to take the shot,
Be extremely patient,
get close,
be prepared to pass the shot unless it's perfect.



If you follow these guidelines you'll be alright.

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about, you have to make all these stipulations before hand to justify your choice of weapon. Frankly I'm surprised Hawaii allows you to use a .177 in the first place, most States have caliber restrictions on large game. Here in Michigan in order to hunt deer with an air rifle it has to be a minimum of .357 caliber. Some States even have energy requirements. What you do and what you're encouraging others to do are two different things. Somebody is certainly going to wound an animal with the rifle you're advocating and I just think it's a bad idea to recommend such a small caliber of such limited power. I'm not trying to start an argument, these are just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[weevil]

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about, you have to make all these stipulations before hand to justify your choice of weapon. Frankly I'm surprised Hawaii allows you to use a .177 in the first place, most States have caliber restrictions on large game. Here in Michigan in order to hunt deer with an air rifle it has to be a minimum of .357 caliber. Some States even have energy requirements. What you do and what you're encouraging others to do are two different things. Somebody is certainly going to wound an animal with the rifle you're advocating and I just think it's a bad idea to recommend such a small caliber of such limited power. I'm not trying to start an argument, these are just my thoughts on the matter.

This is the thread NP was thinking of, FYI

Maverick .177 Porker Down

**Before anyone gives me crap about the caliber: I put in the work to make sure this gun is a laser, and to make sure I know what shots I can take with the highest percentage of success. I do my best to put myself in as close as I can to the hogs(under 50 yards), so there is less room for me...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[Buddy2023]

This is the thread NP was thinking of, FYI

Maverick .177 Porker Down

**Before anyone gives me crap about the caliber: I put in the work to make sure this gun is a laser, and to make sure I know what shots I can take with the highest percentage of success. I do my best to put myself in as close as I can to the hogs(under 50 yards), so there is less room for me...

www.airgunnation.com

This is what that fella said in the first paragraph of his post "**Before anyone gives me crap about the caliber: I put in the work to make sure this gun is a laser, and to make sure I know what shots I can take with the highest percentage of success. I do my best to put myself in as close as I can to the hogs(under 50 yards), so there is less room for me to screw up. I don't recommend everyone thinking they can go hog hunting with their .177! **" I think it was very responsible of him to make this cautionary statement

 

[MysticalDragon]

The game is simple :

Know the anatomy of your prey,
know exactly the angle you need to have to take the shot,
Be extremely patient,
get close,
be prepared to pass the shot unless it's perfect.



If you follow these guidelines you'll be alright.

The problem is that so few will do that. They wont put in the work and effort required. They will be irresponsible and not realize that often times the best shot is the one not taken. They will wound or worse yet maim an animal. This is why there are so many places with restrictions.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about, you have to make all these stipulations before hand to justify your choice of weapon. Frankly I'm surprised Hawaii allows you to use a .177 in the first place, most States have caliber restrictions on large game. Here in Michigan in order to hunt deer with an air rifle it has to be a minimum of .357 caliber. Some States even have energy requirements. What you do and what you're encouraging others to do are two different things. Somebody is certainly going to wound an animal with the rifle you're advocating and I just think it's a bad idea to recommend such a small caliber of such limited power. I'm not trying to start an argument, these are just my thoughts on the matter.

And still there's tons of animals being injured all the time even using overwhelming power, at the end of the day is not the gun but the shooter behind it,
How often do you even hear of other hunters being shot, guns with a ton of power make people thing they can take any shot even if they hardly can see the animal often screwing up royally,...with lower power and having to get close and precise you will never shoot an other hunter by mistake.

My biggest fail was with a 200 FPE .357 because I rushed the shot thinking that power could bail me out, I would never taken that shot if I had a lower powered gun.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

The problem is that so few will do that. They wont put in the work and effort required. They will be irresponsible and not realize that often times the best shot is the one not taken. They will wound or worse yet maim an animal. This is why there are so many places with restrictions.

And still animal get maimed all the time regardless of how much power the gun has because people think they can take all kinds of shots.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

I tell you one thing if a lower powered pellet do no penetrate the skull and just bounces off the injury to an animal is is minimal, basically a scratch.

Compared to the devastating injuries that high powered guns inflict when miss that scratch will not harm the animal one bit.

 

[MysticalDragon]

And still animal get maimed all the time regardless of how much power the gun has because people think they can take all kinds of shots.

Its far less common than those going out with an underpowered gun.

Yes people should be putting in the effort and practice but we all know the reality of that is far less likely to happen.

A person skilled in their trade or hobby will be able to use subpar equipment to get positive results.

However sadly those not putting in the effort is why there are more regulations and restrictions out there.

Its also very irresponsible to suggest lower calibers and power as being suitable because few make the effort required to use them properly.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Its far less common than those going out with an underpowered gun.

Really ? ......and how would you know that ?

One time I was called in to put down an injured hog, when I got there I realized the poor animal got shot by what was obviously a high powered gun,......the round penetrated the side of the nose, broke the jaw and carried on to break the front leg at the elbow.

the poor thing was suffering big time, that would not have happened with a pellet gun.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Why do you think you have to wear bright orange ?

Because people with high powered guns think all they need to do is shoot in the direction of what they see, often shooting at something they barely see and don't even recognize, the horror stories of hunters being shots are out there.

 

[Buddy2023]

And still there's tons of animals being injured all the time even using overwhelming power, at the end of the day is not the gun but the shooter behind it,
How often do you even hear of other hunters being shot, guns with a ton of power make people thing they can take any shot even if they hardly can see the animal often screwing up royally,...with lower power and having to get close and precise you will never shoot an other hunter by mistake.

My biggest fail was with a 200 FPE .357 because I rushed the shot thinking that power could bail me out, I would never taken that shot if I had a lower powered gun.

I think you're missing the point, although you eluded to it in your post "because people think they can take all kinds of shots." That's why I said "what you do and what you're encouraging others to do are two different things" "My biggest fail was with a 200 FPE .357 because I rushed the shot thinking that power could bail me out" Don't you think people are going to do the same thing with lesser powered rifles? Even a 200 FPE .357 air rifle is the equivalent of a non +P 38 Special, in many States a handgun has to produce a minimum of 500 FPE in order to be legal for deer hunting. How many people walk into a gunstore looking for a new deer rifle that only produces 200 FPE? NOBODY!. Look, I'm glad you're successful with your setup but I would be really cautious about advocating others do the same thing. In regards to hunting accidents, here in Michigan they are very rare and we have one of the largest population of deer hunters in the country. Take care pal

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Why would anybody go through the pain of getting an expensive PCP and fill equipment unless they want to put the time in when they could buy a far less expensive way more powerful gun that only requires bullets to shoot ?

At the end of the day we are talking about very, very few enthusiasts here that know what they are doing and willing to put that time in,

we aren't going out there advertizing telling people to do it, we are talking amongst ourselves a very small group about what can be done if done right,

At the end of the day it's all about patience and the willingness to pass on the shot.

This is an old video and shows exactly that, for 10 minutes this big boar didn't give me a shot and I was just expecting for it to spook and leave any second and I was willing to let him go, after 10 minutes he repositioned giving me a perfect square shot and I took it withing seconds

At the time I was using a .25 that today would be considered low power compared of the .22s you can get today

shooting about 55 FPE with the Benjamin pellet

 

[Savagefox]

Easy guys... I am no hunter, but I used to hunt with my grampa where I was a kid and also learn to tie, knife and skinned rabbits that they also breed (it friking traumatise me...).

I have no necesity to hunt, also I can't do it with an airgun or even a .22lr on my country because that is illegal (do you know that a crappy .22lr have killed elephants?) The question is just a retoric prepper one, cause there is a lot of game here and if SHTF I want to know the limits of those power figures that I have acces to. I am not that stupid to just shoot out of patience or in a way that I can put myself in danger or cause unneceary suffering to a living animal, I will prepare myself responsably if I ever have to (I hope not). That's all. As for if someone can be irresponsable with airguns.. yeah, of course, but the guy that is stupid will be irresponsible with any gun, and if it is the case, better to be stupid with an airgun than with a firearm.
Here in my country every year they kill a few people on bike or foot in the nature by 'accident' (stupidity and shooting everything it moves) with firearms.

Not long ago, I hear a bullet whistle over me on the forest, and worse than that, I can say that I AM A HEADSHOT SURVIVOR. Its not a joke... I live in a mountain region and go out a lot on the forest, and one time... something hits the top of my head hard and then moves the foliage, it friking hurts... but there was no blood, I search the object that impacts my head and I didn't found it, but I'm pretty sure it was a a loose shotgun buckshot pellet cause there is no other explanation and on that day there is many shoot sounds on the woods.

 

[BackStop]

While being able to accurately hit your target is important, having enough velocity and energy is equally important. The weapons you're refering to have ZERO margin for error and their power levels are inappropriate for large game animals.

That entirely depends on your dedication to precision and your ability to make shots at that level of precision. Not to mention knowing the anatomy of your target and where to hit it for a clean kill, be that a heart or head shot. From ANY angle!

Aim small, miss small

All my best!
Kerry

 

[Buddy2023]

That entirely depends on your dedication to precision and your ability to make shots at that level of precision. Not to mention knowing the anatomy of your target and where to hit it for a clean kill, be that a heart or head shot. From ANY angle!

Aim small, miss small

All my best!
Kerry

No, a hunter needs an adequate amount of power in addition to dedicating his time to precision and knowing the anatomy of the game he is hunting. I can tell you if you attempt a heart shot on a 200# whitetail with a 17 caliber air rifle it's most likely not going to be a clean kill. You can do whatever you want to but you'd be violating State Game laws where I live if you used the air rifles mentioned here. These minimum power levels aren't arbitrary, the people who set these minimums do this for a reason and they are highly educated individuals. I agree with those individuals. I think it's irresponsible to suggest that these specific air rifles are appropriate for big game hunting. I've hunted deer for 39 years, I've seen the punishment these animals can take with good chest hits from high power rifles, there's just no way I can get on board with this.

 

[BackStop]

No, a hunter needs an adequate amount of power in addition to dedicating his time to precision and knowing the anatomy of the game he is hunting. I can tell you if you attempt a heart shot on a 200# whitetail with a 17 caliber air rifle it's most likely not going to be a clean kill. You can do whatever you want to but you'd be violating State Game laws where I live if you used the air rifles mentioned here. These minimum power levels aren't arbitrary, the people who set these minimums do this for a reason and they are highly educated individuals. I agree with those individuals. I think it's irresponsible to suggest that these specific air rifles are appropriate for big game hunting. I've hunted deer for 39 years, I've seen the punishment these animals can take with good chest hits from high power rifles, there's just no way I can get on board with this.

Never even once did I mention trying to take large game, let along a 200 pound whitetail in my post.

I stand by what I actually DID post.

All my best!

Kerry

 

[Buddy2023]

Never even once did I mention trying to take large game, let along a 200 pound whitetail in my post.

I stand by what I actually DID post.

All my best!

Kerry

In your first reply to my post "While being able to accurately hit your target is important, having enough velocity and energy is equally important. The weapons you're refering to have ZERO margin for error and their power levels are inappropriate for large game animals.",

you said this "That entirely depends on your dedication to precision and your ability to make shots at that level of precision. Not to mention knowing the anatomy of your target and where to hit it for a clean kill, be that a heart or head shot. From ANY angle" That's why I responded the way I did.

Have a nice day pal.