Big game with limited power, .177 or .22?

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Buddy2023 said:
In your first reply to my post "While being able to accurately hit your target is important, having enough velocity and energy is equally important. The weapons you're refering to have ZERO margin for error and their power levels are inappropriate for large game animals.",

you said this "That entirely depends on your dedication to precision and your ability to make shots at that level of precision. Not to mention knowing the anatomy of your target and where to hit it for a clean kill, be that a heart or head shot. From ANY angle" That's why I responded the way I did.

Have a nice day pal.
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I understand your frustration, however, I never said anything about not having enough "velocity and energy" to take any animal.

Re-read what I actually DID post and think about it. NP66 has a long history of taking larger game than I would ever try to take with a .177, but then again, he is in a different situation than you or I am in.

Don't get your feathers ruffled. Just read what I posted as it was posted. Stop trying to impose things I didn't say on me.

Friends? Let's not be like MD and Stubbers... (chuckle)

All my best!

Kerry
 
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Savagefox said:
Hi lads, I live in a country with very stupid gun laws, fortuntelly (for the moment) they don't pay much attention to airguns, but that may change in a near future.

I have some airguns for the hobby, but none of them specially powerfull cause I don't want to surpass the country legal limit, but you can have a full power air gun as long as it is limited. I have the chance to aquire a 30 FPE gun in .177, or a 40+ FPE in .22, of course both are limited to legal specs, but it will be really easy to put them on full power, I have no intention to do so, BUT... I'm also a bit prepper, not zombie apocalipse level... but more like medium to long term shortages and gradual turdtholation of my already struggle to grasp to ''1rst world'' category country.

In an extreme situation that may never happen, I would consider to hunt for food, mainly small game, there is plenty around here, but I also prefer to have the option to shoot a hog, there is plenty of them also, they truly are an infestation and a problem that would solve if gun laws and hunting permits where more reasonable to get. Yes, I see the infamous .177 sub 20 fpe hog kill and I know it can be done, and I also know that those power levels are far beyond the recomended to take efectivelly anything big, but we are talking on SHTF situation, you, your airgun, a hog on sight... .177 30 fpe or .22 40+fpe?
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How about a crossbow, bow and arrows, a spear or snares…? In your SHTF situation they would all be effective. A well place arrow will skewer and kill a porker, deer, elk, etc.
 
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BackStop said:
I understand your frustration, however, I never said anything about not having enough "velocity and energy" to take any animal.

Re-read what I actually DID post and think about it. NP66 has a long history of taking larger game than I would ever try to take with a .177, but then again, he is in a different situation than you or I am in.

Don't get your feathers ruffled. Just read what I posted as it was posted. Stop trying to impose things I didn't say on me.

Friends? Let's not be like MD and Stubbers... (chuckle)

All my best!

Kerry
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I'm not upset at all and I hope you aren't either, I'm not trying to impose anything I'm just basing my comments on what the OP said in the beginning of this thread. The person you mention is doing this under ideal conditions and we'll never hear about the failures. ;) 👍
 
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L.Leon said:
I missed that… but agree with you a #45 recurve would get it done. I love my recurves…
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Not really a recurve but I test fired a Bear Montana 45# at Three Rivers Archery in Indiana, kind of a far drive for you to just visit, but they're only about 90 miles from me. Their shop is more like a warehouse, but upstairs they have more bows than you can shake a stick at and they'll let you shoot as many as you want and the people there are really nice. They have an online store, if you like traditional archery the stuff they have will make you drool LOL!
 
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Buddy2023 said:
I'm not upset at all and I hope you aren't either, I'm not trying to impose anything I'm just basing my comments on what the OP said in the beginning of this thread. The person you mention is doing this under ideal conditions and we'll never hear about the failures. ;) 👍
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I can't speak for NP66 or you, but I have always tried to be honest about not only my successes, but also my failures.

Here is one and if you are interested you can go to the start of this thread and see for yourself, pal.

Tally to date, chippers and tree rats.

Try some Daisy/Winchester/Gamo HPs around 13 fpe on those house hugging chippers. They won't exit if you hit them. My HW30 blows wadcutters through squirrels. I use 1701 and 1720 with RWS Supermags. Pass through chippies.
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com

All my best!

Kerry
 
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BackStop said:
I can't speak for NP66 or you, but I have always tried to be honest about not only my successes, but also my failures.

Here is one and if you are interested you can go to the start of this thread and see for yourself, pal.

Tally to date, chippers and tree rats.

Try some Daisy/Winchester/Gamo HPs around 13 fpe on those house hugging chippers. They won't exit if you hit them. My HW30 blows wadcutters through squirrels. I use 1701 and 1720 with RWS Supermags. Pass through chippies.
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com

All my best!

Kerry
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You seem to think this is all about you, I've in no way questioned your integrity and I'm not calling you pal sarcastically. My whole thing with this thread is the use of unethical weapons on large game animals. Poachers use the 22 LR to shoot deer up here all the time, it's not right for all of the obvious reasons, one of which is it's a wounder of the highest order. Whatever these people claim to be able to do on an internet forum I take with a grain of salt. As I've said before I've hunted deer for 39 years, this includes mule deer, whitetails and antelope (Iknow an antelope isn't technically a deer) and I know what I've witnessed with my own eyes, chipmunks and squirrels are not the same as a deer size animal. I was very clear about what type of animals I was refering to and you responded with " It all depends". No, you didn't mention large game, but you quoted my post which did. Context my friend ;) I hope you can read this and not be upset, I'm an easy guy to get along with and I'm liking these air rifles, but I have to call BS when I see it.
 
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@Buddy2023

OK, have it your way. I am sure you always do. The way you used "pal" could ONLY be taken one way, given the "context".

No, I am not upset, just pointing out your hypocrisy.

Context my friend.

I understand your "whole thing" about what you consider "unethical weapons". Apparently, there are circumstances where larger game can be taken ethically if the shooter has the knowledge and ability to do so. I don't attempt it and neither do you. Look up NP66 posts on GTA.

I am not going to change your mind, but don't piss down my back and tell me it is raining. Pal.

I hope you can read this and not be upset. (chuckle)

All my best!

Kerry
 
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BackStop said:
@Buddy2023

OK, have it your way. I am sure you always do. The way you used "pal" could ONLY be taken one way, given the "context".

No, I am not upset, just pointing out your hypocrisy.

Context my friend.

I understand your "whole thing" about what you consider "unethical weapons". Apparently, there are circumstances where larger game can be taken ethically if the shooter has the knowledge and ability to do so. I don't attempt it and neither do you. Look up NP66 posts on GTA.

I am not going to change your mind, but don't piss down my back and tell me it is raining. Pal.

I hope you can read this and not be upset. (chuckle)

All my best!

Kerry
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The only reason you're carrying on so much is because I'M A YANKEE hahahahahahaha
 
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BackStop said:
@Buddy2023

OK, have it your way. I am sure you always do. The way you used "pal" could ONLY be taken one way, given the "context".

No, I am not upset, just pointing out your hypocrisy.

Context my friend.

I understand your "whole thing" about what you consider "unethical weapons". Apparently, there are circumstances where larger game can be taken ethically if the shooter has the knowledge and ability to do so. I don't attempt it and neither do you. Look up NP66 posts on GTA.

I am not going to change your mind, but don't piss down my back and tell me it is raining. Pal.

I hope you can read this and not be upset. (chuckle)

All my best!

Kerry
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Using what you have in a survival situation is different than testing the waters and have an animal hobble off
 
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BackStop said:
@Buddy2023

OK, have it your way. I am sure you always do. The way you used "pal" could ONLY be taken one way, given the "context".

No, I am not upset, just pointing out your hypocrisy.

Context my friend.

I understand your "whole thing" about what you consider "unethical weapons". Apparently, there are circumstances where larger game can be taken ethically if the shooter has the knowledge and ability to do so. I don't attempt it and neither do you. Look up NP66 posts on GTA.

I am not going to change your mind, but don't piss down my back and tell me it is raining. Pal.

I hope you can read this and not be upset. (chuckle)

All my best!

Kerry
Click to expand...
You're sure I "always have it my way" ?? Not hardly
 
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BackStop said:
I understand your frustration, however, I never said anything about not having enough "velocity and energy" to take any animal.

Re-read what I actually DID post and think about it. NP66 has a long history of taking larger game than I would ever try to take with a .177, but then again, he is in a different situation than you or I am in.

Don't get your feathers ruffled. Just read what I posted as it was posted. Stop trying to impose things I didn't say on me.

Friends? Let's not be like MD and Stubbers... (chuckle)

All my best!

Kerry
Click to expand...
That really was uncalled for SMH
 
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BackStop said:
@Buddy2023

OK, have it your way. I am sure you always do. The way you used "pal" could ONLY be taken one way, given the "context".

No, I am not upset, just pointing out your hypocrisy.

Context my friend.

I understand your "whole thing" about what you consider "unethical weapons". Apparently, there are circumstances where larger game can be taken ethically if the shooter has the knowledge and ability to do so. I don't attempt it and neither do you. Look up NP66 posts on GTA.

I am not going to change your mind, but don't piss down my back and tell me it is raining. Pal.

I hope you can read this and not be upset. (chuckle)

All my best!

Kerry
Click to expand...
Did you ever wonder why these people are doing it? Do they use these animals for food? If I was hungry I'd use whatever I had, rich snobs using unethical weapons because there's nothing left to do after Buffy went to Harvard pisses me off.
 
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Going to jump in this one with my thoughts.

Generally, I would recommend a much higher caliber. I typically do this based on what I see in the initial post; which often is someone new to shooting and my first thought is 'if you have to ask people you dont know on a forum, then you shouldnt be doing it'

I've noticed that a lot of powder burner guys arent as concerned with pinpoint accuracy because they dont have to be. I recall a sight in session with another hunter who had a 30-06 and at 100 yards, he was pulling a 6 inch group and stated 'that's good enough'. I could never do that. I want to eliminate as much error as possible.

I think in general, airgunners are using a scalpel opposed to a machete for their work and tend to be more precise in shot placement, be it on small game or large game. That said, I would suggest you seriously look at your own abilities, your willpower in waiting on the perfect shot, your knowledge of anatomy of the game you are pursuing your ability to 'put in the work' and ask yourself if you feel comfortable with using such gear to take large game. If you are not willing to do all of that, then dont attempt it. If you are, then as far as caliber, the advice on pellets/caliber given by Manny (nomadic) is going to be what you should be looking at.

For myself, I have access to larger guns for big game and so I use them. I dont have a need, nor a burning desire to use smaller calibers and despite living in an area that most deer would be taken inside 50 yards, I just am not comfortable with going lower than 9mm.
 
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Buddy2023 said:
No, a hunter needs an adequate amount of power in addition to dedicating his time to precision and knowing the anatomy of the game he is hunting. I can tell you if you attempt a heart shot on a 200# whitetail with a 17 caliber air rifle it's most likely not going to be a clean kill. You can do whatever you want to but you'd be violating State Game laws where I live if you used the air rifles mentioned here. These minimum power levels aren't arbitrary, the people who set these minimums do this for a reason and they are highly educated individuals. I agree with those individuals. I think it's irresponsible to suggest that these specific air rifles are appropriate for big game hunting. I've hunted deer for 39 years, I've seen the punishment these animals can take with good chest hits from high power rifles, there's just no way I can get on board with this.
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Who ever advocated to shoot any big game with small caliber airguns in the Heat/lung area ?

Even with big bores I mainly did take the precise brain shot and would ideally never, ever attempt a heart lung shot with anything less then .45 and probably in the 400 FPE range.

People can try spin and spin as much as they want but it's clear that a precise brain shot to be effective does not need much power nor caliber,......at that point the biggest variable is the hunter by far and the choice of ammo.


I've taken a boatload of solid wild hogs with smaller calibers and relative low power and if you do your part they all go down on the spot.



To all those that criticize the practice maybe you should check it for yourself because to pass judgement without actual knowledge is just guesswork,...gain experiance then maybe talk.


To hide behind guidelines is the easy but well faulty way to go,....get out there and get your knowledge hands down then come back and we can talk.
 
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Put some paintballs out to the range you plan on shooting.
If you can not hit those? You have no business taking the shot!
Me? I prefer .30 slugs just to take a ground hog at 80 to 90 yards. And I've done that MANY times.
1 shot, 1 kill. But I practice alot, know my ranges, and take my time to get the perfect shot.
 
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