BRK Ghost Review

Ron's Textreme matches must be a real hoot with you guys ribbing each other back and forth!
Always a blast if you can keep Ron from talking so much in the shooter's meeting. Oh, and don't give him a chance to brag on his accolades. Can you say looooooong winded?!?! Holly smokes, humility is not his strongest virtue :ROFLMAO:

Back to regular scheduled programming please..................The Ghost is just so good!!! 👊
 
Somebody was wondering about orings in the grooves of the cocking handle....

A110 are a good place to start.

These have a slight brown tint, black would look better.
PXL_20221017_193022494.jpg
 
Franklink - I'm curious about the hardness of the cocking action you experienced. As I understand one of the advertised features of a balance valve is the lighter cocking action for a given power level. I am surprised that you initially had an issue. Can you explain how the hammer throw length affected the valve and cocking hardness?

I look forward to your reviews. You seem to be the only reviewer I have found that takes the time and effort to do a comprehensive written review of an airgun under various conditions.
 
Franklink - I'm curious about the hardness of the cocking action you experienced. As I understand one of the advertised features of a balance valve is the lighter cocking action for a given power level. I am surprised that you initially had an issue. Can you explain how the hammer throw length affected the valve and cocking hardness?

I look forward to your reviews. You seem to be the only reviewer I have found that takes the time and effort to do a comprehensive written review of an airgun under various conditions.
The greater cocking effort required to get the jsb 10.34 up to desired speed was multifactorial. Partly because I had the regulator set so low, but also because I had reduced the length the hammer could travel. Typically a reduction in overall hammer travel results in imparting less energy on the valve, ie, it doesn't open as much or as long, ie. less fps. . So that meant I needed the hammer spring tension at MAX in order to get the speed I wanted.

All of the above is just PCP functionality, as I understand them.

As for the balanced valve, I don't think that was even a factor in the stiffer cocking I mentioned with that particular tune. Hopefully you saw that I continued "tuning" and got the desired fps with a very minimal cocking effort, measured at under 3lbs with a trigger gauge.

I played with a balanced valve in the JSAR Raptor and, again in my opinion, the gains to be had with a balanced valve are in the higher power tunes. It a crazy how little dl cocking effort was required to get that Raptor to shoot 50 foot pounds. I hope I'll find similar effects with the Ghost, once tuned correctly for high power.

Robert from AOA commented in the other Ghost thread that with playing with a .22 they found....
  1. Wider ranges of fps can be achieved via the hammer spring tension adjust as reg pressure goes up
  2. The gun is more efficient with a higher reg pressure.
Ive only begun to play with the .177 but Ive seen similar effects. At 90 bar, and with where I had the adjustments, the gun sounded like crap, brraaaatttt, with a slow and sluggish shot cycle. At 105 bar, I was able to make other adjustments to get a clean and crisp shot cycle with a "snap" of air. That's not to say the gun can't be tuned to run with a reg pressure of 90 bar and lighter projectiles than 10.34gr, just that it's going to need different hammer stroke length, hammer spring tension settings, and I suspect even moving to a lighter hammer spring.

I've not seen a diagram of the balanced valve for the Ghost, but in studying other designs my minimal understanding is that they typically employ a design that allows for a small portion of the used air to cycle back through a passageway in the valve that helps to close the poppet quicker. In other words, they're kind of like an assisted valve, in that it's not just the poppet return spring getting it closed, but also some of the air shutting it. So, I have no idea if something similar is going on with the Ghost valve, but it makes sense, with the greater efficiency coming from higher reg pressure.

There are so many adjustment and combinations of those that I think we'll see people really taking it to the max in air efficiency and power output with th Ghost. For me and my personality, all of the experimentation is to arrive at established tunes for specific pellets that meet a specific need for me. I don't love tuning just for the sake of tinkering, although many do. I've already gotten a sub 20fpe tune and documented I carefully enough that I can return to it. I still want a high power .22 tune but I'm going through all this testing as part of the review and information sharing process.
 
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PRS bag rider

Had a few different chrono and bench sessions throughout the day today. All of it with the borrowed bad rider. I've seen these bag riders before and thought they were cool, but personally not really into benchrest much, I'd never envisioned buying one. Well, I gotta admit that they really improve the experience, when shooting from a bench and using a bipod and a rear bag. I mean REALLY improve the experience.

bag rider 1st photo.jpg


Couple niggles with it though....
I adjusted the buttpad down, to fit me better, and it does. I usually like them lowered, when possible. I shot the ft match on Sat with it lowered as far as it will go. Like this...

bag rider 2nd photo.jpg



Well, that bag rider won't attach with full engagement on the pic rail unless the buttpad is raised all the way up....
bag rider 3rd photo.jpg


With the butpad slightly lowered it'll attach with probably enough engagement to be solid. But I'd sure like the buttpad lowered all the way.

Notice in the first photo how the clamp doesn't have the usual picatinny crossbar to fit in the slots. Seems to be plenty solid without the crossbar though.

I think Daystate/BRK probably chose to only put a two slot pic rail on here so that it doesn't extend out past the max width of the butt portion of the gun. And that makes sense, cuz a sharp-edged pic rail (and yes, I find all pic rails sharp edged) extending wider would just create a place for everything to snag, for any non-bench use. Compromises.

Overall, I found the bag rider concept a big enough improvement to warrant adjusting the buttpad up when I'm going to have a bench session. The buttpad adjusts with just one bolt, so it's not too big of a deal.

I'll be working on the write-up for the .177 pellet testing until I run out of steam this evening. If I get 'r done I'll post up later. Otherwise....not.
 
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105 BAR
Here is the pellet testing. As previously mentioned, I was curious to see what the current settings could do, with only messing with the hammer tension adjust, leaving the regulator and hammer stroke length the same. Weights from 7.87grains up to 16.2.
2022-10-17_23h30_18.jpg


Test design was as follows....(remember 13 shots in .177 magazine and why I did it this way makes more sense)13 shots over the chrono in the garage first (less lighting issues than outside and no chrono errors). Then outside to where I had two target traps at 50 yards, the first 3 shots were used in one trap to get the impact points roughly near a crosshair I could use as an aimpoint. The following 10 shots were then shot into the other trap, holding on the nearest crosshair to the impact point. So, 10 shot groups at 50 yards. There were no "fouling" shots or letting the barrel get accustomed to the new pellet. Quick and dirty (well not really, it still took forever).
I did not clean the barrel at any point in this testing, in fact, I haven't cleaned it since before the field target match on Saturday. I also only shot 1, ten shot group at 50 yards with each pellet (except for the 13.43s since I shot it at two different speeds, shot 1, 10 shot group with each speed for that pellet). So these are NOT the "best of the best" or cherrypicked "good" groups. These are the only groups I shot today. The only thing not shown here are the first 3 shots from each magazine shot at the other trap, to get an idea of impact points.

Chrono first.....refer back to this table when analyzing the photos of groups shared next. Those groups were taken with the hammer tension setting shown here.
graph.jpg

  • Some of those speeds are simply too fast for the pellet, and some are too slow. With only one exception, the accuracy results support that conclusion.
  • Overall, the consistency was pretty good.
    • The Beasts were tight loading, but they have been in every gun I've tried them in.
      • the magazine wells were plenty deep for the 16.2gr Beasts, anyone familiar with them knows how long they are, like a tiny little dart.
    • An interesting thing to note is the ES on the 13.43 with two different hammer tension settings. At first glance one would assume the hammer tension had something to do with it, but I don't think that's the case. With the spread of 16.29 I didn't seat the pellets all the way into the magazine wells. And with the spread of 7.4 I did seat them the entire way (ball point pen). I noticed the loading into the barrel wasn't as smooth with the pellets not seated into the magazine entirely. And the magazine lid will shut just fine without fully seating the pellets. These photos were taken as an attempt to show fully seated, and not. I think I'll seat them the entire way now, seems to be better consistency, and for sure loads smoother. And some pellets just drop all the way to the bottom, some have a large enough skirt to not fall to the bottom.
    • Seated and not seated.
    • not seated.jpg
      seated.jpg


Here are the groups from the 7.87 to 8.64 grain pellets. Shot around noon and wind speeds were 3-7mph and shifting from right to left and left to right during this session, per NWS.
light stuff.jpg

Those 8.44s were amazing at this speed. This was the surprising one to me, as I would have assumed that was too fast for that weight. The Sniper Mediums weren't too bad.

Here are the groups from the 9.1gr to 10.65gr pellets.... also shot around noon and wind speed were 3-7mph and shifting from right to left and left to right for this session.
medium.jpg

About what would be expected, the gun was tuned to shoot a midweight pellet, so not surprising that these did so well. The FX/10.34 in the lower left was actually the tune used at the field target match on Saturday. I don't think I'd hesitate to shoot any of these four pellets at a field target match. Plenty sufficient accuracy for that game from all four of these pellets. In that regard, not very pellet picky, assuming gun is tuned for that window of pellet weights.

This is the Monster RD. Shot around 4pm and winds were 7-10mph during this session, again shifting from various directions.
mrd.jpg

Really quite decent accuracy, given the greater wind during this session, perhaps the best shooting pellet of the day.

Finally, the groups from the 16.2gr Beasts....taken at 9pm and winds were 6-7mph, per NWS.
beast.jpg

7 of the 10 went into a pretty decent group, the other 3 were definite flyers. Take a close look at the holes from those three flyers and you can see more lead smear on one side of the hole, as well as slightly oblong (non round) holes. My thoughts are that the 16.2s just weren't going fast enough to be stabilized with these settings.

Conclusion(s)
Too fast for the light pellets and too slow for the heaviest (16.2 Beasts). Just right for the 9-13grain stuff. Further adjustments would be needed for a better work-up of those lighter pellets, and the 16.2s. I think the solution to getting the 16.2s to behave is just a higher reg pressure. But I think the solution to getting the light stuff to behave can be found in the fine stroke length settings that I'll discuss in the next post.

Generally, the shot cycle CAN be oh so sweet on this gun! And it can also be pretty nasty. When everything is balanced to the pellet weight and the desired speeds, it's just a gentle little "tink" with everything happening quickly and crisply. BUT, when you're trying to force the gun to shoot something lighter or heavier than appropriate for the settings, it's not such a sweet behaving gun. The shooter can "feel" wasted air with less than optimal settings for that particular pellet. And it's a very definite "YUCK, something needs adjusted" impression.
 
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Hammer Stroke Length

Post #23 had some inaccuracies (ie I was wrong). This post will hopefully clear them up. I'm learning this gun as I go but I do apologize for spreading false information back in #23.

The correct way to adjust the stroke length will be presented here.

There was an earlier request for photos and measurements of the hammer, those will also be presented here.

This level of disassembly is not required for hammer stroke length adjustments, but I needed to "see" what I was doing so I took it apart again. Hopefully these photos will help any future Ghost owners also understand how their gun works.

For adjustment of stroke length (again, disassembly not required).
cheek piece.jpg

grub screw access.jpg


This is the rear sub assembly, removed from the gun as describe in the 3rd photo on post #57
1st rear assembly.jpg

With hammer spring tension at max, the 2mm allen key can be inserted in these holes to access the hammer stroke adjustments. You'll need a LOOOONNGGGG 2mm allen key.
2nd rear assembly.jpg


And the rest of the photos will hopefully help visualize what is in there.....

retaining bolts for retaining collar.jpg

removed retaining collar.jpg

i was wrong.jpg


The grub screw being pointed at in the following photo is what needs loosened by accessing through the hole under the cheek piece (second photo in this post)
loosen this grub screw.jpg

hammer out of gun.jpg


I replaced the L bracket with the hammer out of the gun in the next couple photos, again for visualization.
hammer.jpg

hammer1.jpg


hammer3.jpg

hammer4.jpg


Max and min hammer length (max considered to be where the grub screw still has full engagement)
oal length of hammer at max1.jpg



Clear as mud.

I predict that we'll see the wildcatters with machine skills like Derrick (that's a compliment) fit peek tips/inserts on the end of the hammer to see if there's any gains to be had by doing such.

The Carbine in my possession came to me with the threaded insert at the front of the hammer completely recessed (max hammer travel). I suspect that is the default.

I think that I could extend that threaded insert, and do nothing else to the adjustments, to get the gun to shoot the lighter weight pellets much better. It would impart less energy on the valve and thereby reduce the fps down to a reasonable value for the light stuff. I suspect that too low of a reg pressure with this balanced valve is not a good thing and will hurt efficiency. That's why I think the road to low energy happiness with the Ghost is a reg pressure no lower than 100-105 bar but with this threaded hammer insert extended. That combination will allow the high reg pressure (relative to fpe output) to keep the balanced valve happy, shutting it quickly, but also allow the light pellets to be shot a speeds they like. And I could also prove to be completely wrong, this entire review is just my late night ramblings and hypotheses.

hammer2.jpg
 
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Scratch some of my assumptions about the balanced valve......Just spoke with an industry contact who had a conversation with the head engineer for the Ghost development and we've received further clarification on the valve.

So, it is a type of valve that walks the line between traditional and balanced. When I heard "balanced valve" I assumed that some of the air is shunted back around to close the poppet quicker, like I've seen explained with other balanced valves. That is not the case with the Ghost valve. The "end of the stem is open to atmosphere so it generates no closing force and dramatically lowers the cocking force." In other words, none of the air released when firing, cycles back around to aid in closing the valve. "The only closing force is from the return spring." "Light cracking force but little closing force for now."

Would be nice to see a schematic or a valve cut in half, and while I'm a curious guy, I'm not curious enough to cross section the valve with a saw. Furthermore, I'd suspect BRK and parent company Daystate, consider the valve innards squarely in the middle of "intellectual property."
 
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Hammer Stroke Length

Post #23 had some inaccuracies (ie I was wrong). This post will hopefully clear them up. I'm learning this gun as I go but I do apologize for spreading false information back in #23.

The correct way to adjust the stroke length will be presented here.

There was an earlier request for photos and measurements of the hammer, those will also be presented here.

This level of disassembly is not required for hammer stroke length adjustments, but I needed to "see" what I was doing so I took it apart again. Hopefully these photos will help any future Ghost owners also understand how their gun works.

For adjustment of stroke length (again, disassembly not required).
View attachment 298386
View attachment 298387

This is the rear sub assembly, removed from the gun as describe in the 3rd photo on post #57
View attachment 298384
With power wheel at MAX, the 2mm allen key can be inserted in these holes to access the hammer stroke adjustments. You'll need a LOOOONNGGGG 2mm allen key.
View attachment 298385
And the rest of the photos will hopefully help visualize what is in there.....
View attachment 298389
View attachment 298390
View attachment 298388
View attachment 298391
View attachment 298392
View attachment 298393
View attachment 298394

The grub screw being pointed at in the following photo is what needs loosened by accessing through the hole under the cheek piece (second photo in this post)
View attachment 298395
View attachment 298396

I replaced the L bracket with the hammer out of the gun in the next couple photos, again for visualization.
View attachment 298397
View attachment 298398
View attachment 298399
View attachment 298400
View attachment 298401

Max and min hammer length (max considered to be where the grub screw still has full engagement)
View attachment 298402
View attachment 298403

Clear as mud.

I predict that we'll see the wildcatters with machine skills like Derrick (that's a compliment) fit peek tips/inserts on the end of the hammer to see if there's any gains to be had by doing such.

The Carbine in my possession came to me with the threaded insert at the front of the hammer completely recessed (max hammer travel). I suspect that is the default.

I think that I could extend that threaded insert, and do nothing else to the adjustments, to get the gun to shoot the lighter weight pellets much better. It would impart less energy on the valve and thereby reduce the fps down to a reasonable value for the light stuff. I suspect that too low of a reg pressure with this balanced valve is not a good thing and will hurt efficiency. That's why I think the road to low energy happiness with the Ghost is a reg pressure no lower than 100-105 bar but with this threaded hammer insert extended. That combination will allow the high reg pressure (relative to fpe output) to keep the balanced valve happy, shutting it quickly, but also allow the light pellets to be shot a speeds they like. And I could also prove to be completely wrong, this entire review is just my late night ramblings and hypotheses.
GREAT POST AND PICTURES - THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL OF YOUR EFFORT ON TESTING THIS RIG!!!
 
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Tire algumas das minhas suposições sobre a válvula balanceada... Acabei de falar com um contato da indústria que conversou com o engenheiro chefe para o desenvolvimento do Ghost e recebemos mais esclarecimentos sobre a válvula.

Então, é um tipo de válvula que anda na linha entre o tradicional e o balanceado. Quando ouvi "válvula balanceada", presumi que parte do ar é desviada para fechar o gatilho mais rapidamente, como já vi explicado com outras válvulas balanceadas. Esse não é o caso da válvula Ghost. A "extremidade da haste está aberta para a atmosfera, de modo que não gera força de fechamento e reduz drasticamente a força de armar". Em outras palavras, nenhum ar liberado ao disparar volta para ajudar no fechamento da válvula. "A única força de fechamento é da mola de retorno." "Leve força de rachadura, mas pouca força de fechamento por enquanto."

Seria bom ver um esquema ou uma válvula cortada ao meio e, embora eu seja um cara curioso, não sou curioso o suficiente para cortar a válvula com uma serra. Além disso, eu suspeito que a BRK e a controladora Daystate considerem as entranhas da válvula bem no meio da "propriedade intelectual".
Nossa, fiquei curioso sobre essa válvula balanceada, se for possível mostrá-la mesmo que seja em fotos, muito obrigado amigo, este post está ajudando muito nas nossas dúvidas.
 
Scratch some of my assumptions about the balanced valve......Just spoke with an industry contact who had a conversation with the head engineer for the Ghost development and we've received further clarification on the valve.

So, it is a type of valve that walks the line between traditional and balanced. When I heard "balanced valve" I assumed that some of the air is shunted back around to close the poppet quicker, like I've seen explained with other balanced valves. That is not the case with the Ghost valve. The "end of the stem is open to atmosphere so it generates no closing force and dramatically lowers the cocking force." In other words, none of the air released when firing, cycles back around to aid in closing the valve. "The only closing force is from the return spring." "Light cracking force but little closing force for now."

Would be nice to see a schematic or a valve cut in half, and while I'm a curious guy, I'm not curious enough to cross section the valve with a saw. Furthermore, I'd suspect BRK and parent company Daystate, consider the valve innards squarely in the middle of "intellectual property."
Thanks Cole, I'd like to see that also, since I can't imagine how the plenum pressure wouldn't aid in closing the valve in addition to the valve return spring? I understand about the "end of the stem open to atmosphere", since that's the way that most FX have been doing it for many years back to the Royale/Boss/Bobcat platforms.