BRK Ghost Review

[Franklink]

Bumped the regulator and moved on to HEAVY stuff (relatively).

Chrono data is collected and trying to get some groups in here in the next hr or so. More detailed post late tonight.

 

[Franklink]

I think only time will tell since it is a new release and not too many people have them yet.

My report will continue. And I'm not being paid to do this, so it can be considered rather impartial. If I find negatives I report them.

 

[Centercut]

Cole’s Airgun reviews are the best, most detailed and unbiased reviews on AGN. That’s probably why he only does a couple per year. It takes much time and effort, in addition to his family and full time job. Keep up the good work Cole!

 

[Franklink]

Cole’s Airgun reviews are the best, most detailed and unbiased reviews on AGN. That’s probably why he only does a couple per year. It takes much time and effort, in addition to his family and full time job. Keep up the good work Cole!

Thanks Centercut.

Yes, they're very time consuming. I've turned down a couple requests for reviews between the Ghost and the prior review gun, specifically because they're so time consuming and my wife and I were remodeling a house in that same time frame.

I do enjoy doing them though, and take them on with the mindset of creating a reference for potential buyers as well as future owners to stumble upon the information and to be able to understand the gun better.

 

[Peskådot671]

My report will continue. And I'm not being paid to do this, so it can be considered rather impartial. If I find negatives I report them.

You're doing an awesome job at it. Very detailed and informative especially with all the pics.

 

[Franklink]

Valve Photos

These were sent to me by an industry contact, so I've not pulled the valve from the review Carbine... I usually understand function better if I can hold it and look at it from various angles.....

My first question to the contact was....what's this hole? (Atypical place for a hole on a valve, in my limited experience)

The response "The vent to atmosphere. In the straight down view, you can see the oring that seals the valve stem to the back end. That is why there's no closing force added from the plenum pressure. "

I already shared the next two photos earlier in the review, but it'll give some context for the valve photos above.... especially my text bubble starting with "5th fastener." Also, the flat on the rear of the valve body that can be seen above, and in the last picture here. That flat is what "5th fastener" (grub screw) secures to.

Hopefully that answers some questions and perhaps satisfies the curiosity about the valve.

I'm working nights right now so can't confirm but I think I remember being told that the Ghost and the Delta Wolf and Alpha wolf all have the same valve. I'll update tomorrow when I know for sure.

 

[SorenDrost]

I'm working nights right now so can't confirm but I think I remember being told that the Ghost and the Delta Wolf and Alpha wolf all have the same valve. I'll update tomorrow when I know for sure.

The BRK Ghost has got the updated balanced valve from the Daystate Alpha Wolf

 

[Franklink]

Since it's being tested extensively, I'm curious, how does the ghost compare to other PCP rifles in terms of quality, reliability and performance?

Between review guns and those I own or have owned, I've spent large amounts of time with some of the best that exist: BSA Gold Star, Red Wolf, RTI Prophet, Veterans, USFT, Weihrauch and FWB springers, as well as various Brococks, I've also shot multiple "demo" specimens of EVOLS and LCS SK19s in different calibers and configurations. I've also shot friend's RAWS. There may be some more in there that aren't coming to mind right now.

As for how the Ghost compares to all of those.....

• reliability is simply too soon to comment on
• quality, as judged by machining and design.....superb. I'm big on SOLID being synonymous with quality. If a gun feels chintzy, no matter the price, I'm out. And by chintzy I mean fragile, or giving the impression of easily broken or damaged. The only guns in the list above that feel more solid to me than the Ghost are the USFT and the EVOL. Some of what I listed above are equal in "solid" as the Ghost. And the Ghost gives the impression of being more "solid" than some of them. As a specific example, and to further clarify (when taking ALL components into consideration) the Ghost is a more solidly built rifle than the Red Wolf (thin battery wires are the first thing that comes to mind).
• performance, it did mighty fine in that first field target match I competed in. Accuracy is impressive with certain projectiles. It's also been impressive to see how consistent the extreme spreads have been over the chronograph.

One last comment on this line of thought.....I owned a Brocock Concept Elite S6 for a couple years. It was my first step up from Crosman/Benjamin products. A fine rifle. I also reviewed a Concept XR Lite, much as I'm doing now with the Ghost. And spent another couple weeks with a different specimen of a Concept XR Lite that a friend bought. Also great guns. I understand me saying the following may upset some owners of previous Brocock guns, but the Ghost is better made than those two other models of Brococks I'm familiar with. And I'm basing that on having been inside them. The old (wood stock) and newer XR Lite versions of the Concept had rough triggers, with what seemed like stamped out components. Their trigger designs are also crudely simple. They could be made into very good triggers, but their OEM feel was not as good as the OEM Ghost's.

With the Ghost, I'm so far liking what I'm seeing, in the context of comparing it to other PCP rifles in terms of quality and performance. Reliability is yet to be determined.

(Please don't be offended by any of my above comments, I'm not trying to "throw shade" on anybody's favorite gun or manufacturer, but rather to simply compare it to other's I've spent time with, which is what the question was).

 

[Franklink]

The BRK Ghost has got the updated balanced valve from the Daystate Alpha Wolf

Thanks for confirming.
Arzrover told me that he's not needed to replace a single oring or seal on his Delta Wolf valve in two years, and that includes a bunch of disassemblies. And he shoots A LOT.

 

[Airfuture]

Here is the valve and hammer weight I think about 8 grams and 14 CC plenum on the Altaros M24, it works efficiently at 180 bar, if it was driven by a solenoid it would be a fantasy...

 

[zx10wall]

Very good valve design and materials used. I wouldn’t call it a “balanced” valve and in my mind, that’s a good thing. Baddass valve is more appropriate.

Thanks for the hard work, Cole. I’m keeping tuned in.

 

[Franklink]

Yesterday evening I did some testing with heavier projectiles and increased regulator pressures.

I'll try to explain my process in a logical manner.....

I had already confirmed that the regulator pressure of 105 was just about perfect for 9-13grain pellets, but was inadequate for the 16.2gr Beasts. From past experiences, I figured the 105 bar wouldn't be enough to push the 12.5grain slugs either, since similar weight slugs usually take more energy to get them up to speed.
So, I bumped up the regulator. It's easy to go up or down with this design, but especially easy to go UP b/c the bottle doesn't need unscrewed/plenum degassed like it does when going down. A very small turn of the regulator adjustment knob, perhaps moving it 1/8th of an inch, nothing even close to 1/4th of a revolution produced a reg pressure of 125bar. Which was the first testing point. I wanted to find out at what regulator pressure I saw diminishing returns in energy output. Remember this is only a 17 inch barrel, so there's only so much oomph to be had.

I used the 12.5grain NSAs for the max fpe output vs regulator pressure test projectile, as I assumed it would be the most likely slug to produce decent accuracy. This all with the hammer stroke set for maximum travel.

• 125bar
  • MIN on hammer tension-630fps (not what we're looking for)
  • MAX on hammer tension-837.3, 837, 831, 834.8, 830.4

Need more oomph! so bumped the reg again.

• 135bar
  • MIN-659.7 (not what we're looking for)
  • MAX-864.6, 865.4, 866.1, 863.4, 863.9

Still need more oomph! UP WITH THE REG PRESSURE!!!

• 148bar (gauge is in 10bar increments, halfway between graduations would be 145, but it was closer to 150 than halfway, so roughly 148)
  • MIN-675.6
  • MAX-879.4, 874.3, 880.3, 872.3, 874.7

Maybe need more reg pressure? Up again.

• 165bar
  • MIN-672.2
  • MAX-877.7, 877.5, 879.6, 874.8, 885

Okay, at that point it looked like there wasn't any gains to be had at 165 bar over 148 bar, so I unscrewed the bottle, shot the air out from the plenum and readjusted regulator back to about 142 bar. Settled on 142 bar because even the couple extra fps from 135 to 148 wasn't very substantial. Now that I had found the point where an increase in reg pressure wasn't increasing energy output (ie the barrel length is now the limiting factor) I could chrono all 4 "heavy" .177 projectiles.

• 142bar
  • NSA 12.5gr on MAX-13 shots, LO of 864.8fps HIGH of 874.5, ES of 9.63
  • Howler 12.6gr on MAX-13 shots, LO of 861.3, HIGH of 874.6, ES of 13.3
  • NSA 15gr on MAX-13 shots, LO of 759.3, HIGH of 767.3, ES of 8
  • JSB Beast 16.2gr on MAX-13 shots, LO of 791.4, HIGH of 806.4, ES of 15

I then went outside for 50 yard accuracy testing....and it wasn't pretty.

The 12.5 NSA/Howlers did the best, that Howler group was 10 shots at about 1.25inches. The 15grains are just too slow. And the Beasts were curve balling pretty bad-also probably pretty slow. There wasn't enough wind for it to be causing what I was seeing.

To be completely fair to the .177 slugs, and before I move on to the .22 barrel (which I'm just itching to do), I really should scrub the barrel and retest the 12.5NSA and 12.6gr Howlers at 50 yards. If results are better I'll stretch it out further, but I'm not overly optimistic.

It's hard to choose a projectile that is producing 1.25inch groups at 50 when I've got at least four different ones that'll AVERAGE 0.75inch groups and occasionally shoot 10 into 1/3rd of an inch.

But next step will be retesting accuracy (after a good barrel scrub) with the 12.5 and 12.6 grain slugs at 50yds (and maybe further if the second go-around @ 50 is better than the first.)

After that, I'll put that .22 barrel and probe on this thing and see what it can do!

 

[fernando Aquino]

Fotos de comportamento

[Anexar=completo]298852[/Anexar]
[Anexar=completo]298854[/Anexar]
[Anexar=completo]298855[/Anexar]
[Anexar=completo]298857[/Anexar]
Estes foram enviados para mim por um contato da indústria, então eu não puxei a válvula da revisão Carbine...

Minha primeira pergunta para o contato foi... o que é esse buraco? (Lugar atípico para um buraco em uma válvula, na minha experiência limitada)
[Anexar=completo]298858[/Anexar]
A resposta "A ventilação para a atmosfera. Na visão direta, você pode ver os orifícios que a pressa da extremidade inferior. É por isso que não há força de fechamento adicionado da pressão do plenum."

Eu já algumas fotos próximas no início da reunião, mas isso vai incluir o contexto para as fotos da coleção... especialmente minha bolsa de texto da reunião com "5º prendedor". Além disso, o plano na parte traseira do corpo da válvula que pode ser visto acima e na última foto aqui. Esse plano é o que o "5º prendedor" (parafuso sem cabeça) prende.
[Anexar=completo]298867[/Anexar]
[Anexar=completo]298868[/Anexar]

Espero que isso responda a algumas perguntas e talvez satisfaça a curiosidade sobre a válvula.

Estou trabalhando à noite agora, então não posso garantir, mas acho que me lembro de ouvir que o Fantasma, o Lobo Delta e o Lobo Alfa têm a mesma válvula. Atualizar amanhã quando tiver certeza.

Obrigado Franklin, como sempre nos ajudando a entender o Ghost, informações muito esclarecedoras.

 

[Franklink]

Obrigado Franklin, como sempre nos ajudando a entender o Ghost, informações muito esclarecedoras.

De nada Fernando. Sou feliz que 'ce ta' desfrutando meus divagacoes.

 

[Franklink]

Dope data and scope height

The following is pretty specific to folks with an interest in field target, so if that's not you, maybe skip this installment.

Back in post #92, in reference to the dope data I used for the FT match, I stated the following: "The design of the gun puts the scope above the barrel quite a bit. I used higher than necessary mounts because they were already on the spare scope, so the scope was EVEN higher than it would have been otherwise. Once a guy has set up a handful of field target guns, you get a feel for how trajectory plays out. Well, with that scope so far from the barrel, it threw me for a loop because the dope data was quite different than what I see with most guns. The whole thing meant that I had a nice straight neck for seeing through the scope, but the close shots needed much more elevation than I'm used to seeing on ft guns."

There's a discussion going on in the field target area right now about the challenge of ranging with 16x. Some of the participants have commented how hard it is to determine distance at 45+ yards when only using 16x. All of that got me thinking it might be interesting, and maybe even beneficial to folks for me to share the following. So this post will not be specifically about the Ghost, but rather using it as an example to illustrate how strategically setting up a gun for field target matches can result in higher scores.

This first table is the dope data I used for the Ghost at the field target match on Sat. This is with JSB 0.177/10.34gr going 890-900fps, using a zero of 35 yards, a BC of 0.032, and a scope height of 3.3inches. (I haven't collected a BC but eventually will, this data was arrived at by using impact points shot at 10-55 yards and then reverse input into Strelok to get a matching table.)

The following is the dope data Colben used for the gun he shot. It is with JSB 0.20/13.73gr going 800-810fps, using a zero of 30 yards and, a BC of 0.045, and a scope height of 2.3inches.

I want to point out the 45 and 55 yard clicks required.

• For the Ghost, with the scope height of 3.3 inches, 45 yards needs 2 clicks and 55 needs 6 clicks. (a vertical difference of 4 clicks on a 1/10 click scope is all going to be within a legal kill zone at 45+, so calling it 45 or 55 won't matter, the pellet will hit the kill zone either way, assuming a steady hand).
• For the .20, with the scope height of 2.3 inches, 45 yards needs 7 clicks and 55 yards needs 13 clicks (the vertical difference is 6 clicks, over half a mil now, assuming steady hand, some of the shots will still fall into the kill zone if it is mis-ranged, but less wiggle room.)

Also note how much more elevation is needed for the 10-15 yard shots with the high scope height Ghost, when compared to the elevation required for the same distance with the lower scope height .20.

There's quite a bit to glean from all that. A couple big ones though.....

• First, trajectory. Many in ft have moved to the loopier .177/13.43grain pellets at about 800fps (to stay legal). The argument being that it bucks the wind better. In my comparison here the .20/13.73 is comparable to the .177/13.43 as it also needs to be kept to just about 800fps to be legal. With that loopier trajectory, there's less wiggle room on the ranging of the far targets, because the heavier pellet is dropping more quickly than the lighter 10.34s.
• Second, scope height. An exaggerated scope height will result in less holdover/elevation for the far shots, but will require more elevation for the 10-20 yards. In the case of a 16x Hunter shooter that knows his scope ranges well from 10-20 yards, but not so hot at 45+ yards, it would make sense to set the scope higher.
• Third, take a look at the zero range, for the 10.34grain pellet, 26-46 (20) yards is within 0.2mils of zero. For the 13.73grain pellet, 22-36 (14) yards is within 0.2mils of zero.

"But the BC is better with the 13.43s." Yeah, maybe, but just learn how much to hold for varying wind values and that becomes a non-issue. We're shooting at large targets in field target. It's more a game of knowing your gun and having it be dependable by maintaining its impact point and consistent velocity than ultimate precision.

I'll conclude with commenting that my 0.177 pellet stash has a WHOLE LOTTA 10.34s, and very few 13.43s.

(and find a barrel that'll push the 10.34s up to 930fps and the difference becomes even more profound than the example used above).

 

[zx10wall]

Looks similar to the ranging for my Pulsar. It also has a high scope. I am, almost exclusively, a bullpup PCP shooter. Bullpups inherently have their scopes mounted high.

Many a folk hate a high scope. I know things are more simple with a scope mounted closer to the bore. I’ve always felt that as long as all is worked out for ranging, it doesn’t matter. I didn’t sign up for “more simple” anyway

 

[Franklink]

Looks similar to the ranging for my Pulsar. It also has a high scope. I almost exclusively a bullpup PCP shooter. Bullpups inherently have their scopes mounted high.

Many a folk hate a high scope. I know things are more simple with a scope mounted closer to the bore. I’ve always felt that as long as all is worked out for ranging, it doesn’t matter. I didn’t sign up for “more simple” anyway

Yep, high scope height isn't a negative, and can even be used for the shooters benefit. Good scores in field target come from knowing where that pellet is going at any range from 10-55 yards, which is familiarity, and of course shooting a gun that can consistently do that.

 

[SupremaRatio]

Yesterday evening I did some testing with heavier projectiles and increased regulator pressures.

I'll try to explain my process in a logical manner.....

I had already confirmed that the regulator pressure of 105 was just about perfect for 9-13grain pellets, but was inadequate for the 16.2gr Beasts. From past experiences, I figured the 105 bar wouldn't be enough to push the 12.5grain slugs either, since similar weight slugs usually take more energy to get them up to speed.
So, I bumped up the regulator. It's easy to go up or down with this design, but especially easy to go UP b/c the bottle doesn't need unscrewed/plenum degassed like it does when going down. A very small turn of the regulator adjustment knob, perhaps moving it 1/8th of an inch, nothing even close to 1/4th of a revolution produced a reg pressure of 125bar. Which was the first testing point. I wanted to find out at what regulator pressure I saw diminishing returns in energy output. Remember this is only a 17 inch barrel, so there's only so much oomph to be had.

I used the 12.5grain NSAs for the max fpe output vs regulator pressure test projectile, as I assumed it would be the most likely slug to produce decent accuracy. This all with the hammer stroke set for maximum travel.

• 125bar
  • MIN on hammer tension-630fps (not what we're looking for)
  • MAX on hammer tension-837.3, 837, 831, 834.8, 830.4

Need more oomph! so bumped the reg again.

• 135bar
  • MIN-659.7 (not what we're looking for)
  • MAX-864.6, 865.4, 866.1, 863.4, 863.9

Still need more oomph! UP WITH THE REG PRESSURE!!!

• 148bar (gauge is in 10bar increments, halfway between graduations would be 145, but it was closer to 150 than halfway, so roughly 148)
  • MIN-675.6
  • MAX-879.4, 874.3, 880.3, 872.3, 874.7

Maybe need more reg pressure? Up again.

• 165bar
  • MIN-672.2
  • MAX-877.7, 877.5, 879.6, 874.8, 885

Okay, at that point it looked like there wasn't any gains to be had at 165 bar over 148 bar, so I unscrewed the bottle, shot the air out from the plenum and readjusted regulator back to about 142 bar. Settled on 142 bar because even the couple extra fps from 135 to 148 wasn't very substantial. Now that I had found the point where an increase in reg pressure wasn't increasing energy output (ie the barrel length is now the limiting factor) I could chrono all 4 "heavy" .177 projectiles.

• 142bar
  • NSA 12.5gr on MAX-13 shots, LO of 864.8fps HIGH of 874.5, ES of 9.63
  • Howler 12.6gr on MAX-13 shots, LO of 861.3, HIGH of 874.6, ES of 13.3
  • NSA 15gr on MAX-13 shots, LO of 759.3, HIGH of 767.3, ES of 8
  • JSB Beast 16.2gr on MAX-13 shots, LO of 791.4, HIGH of 806.4, ES of 15

I then went outside for 50 yard accuracy testing....and it wasn't pretty.
View attachment 298899

The 12.5 NSA/Howlers did the best, that Howler group was 10 shots at about 1.25inches. The 15grains are just too slow. And the Beasts were curve balling pretty bad-also probably pretty slow. There wasn't enough wind for it to be causing what I was seeing.

To be completely fair to the .177 slugs, and before I move on to the .22 barrel (which I'm just itching to do), I really should scrub the barrel and retest the 12.5NSA and 12.6gr Howlers at 50 yards. If results are better I'll stretch it out further, but I'm not overly optimistic.

It's hard to choose a projectile that is producing 1.25inch groups at 50 when I've got at least four different ones that'll AVERAGE 0.75inch groups and occasionally shoot 10 into 1/3rd of an inch.

But next step will be retesting accuracy (after a good barrel scrub) with the 12.5 and 12.6 grain slugs at 50yds (and maybe further if the second go-around @ 50 is better than the first.)

After that, I'll put that .22 barrel and probe on this thing and see what it can do!

So high pressures to obtain an insufficient speed. Maybe I missed that, but is it a sub12?

 

[Franklink]

So high pressures to obtain an insufficient speed. Maybe I missed that, but is it a sub12?

No it's not sub 12fpe. Bout 22-23fpe is the max for this configuration that I have ("Carbine").

I had multiple requests for slug testing but really this 17inch barrel is not long enough to generate enough energy for slugs. Soren D that is legally restricted to .177 in Denmark? does a ton of slug testing and he already has the longer barrel of the .177 high power coming his way. He also started with a 17 inch Carbine barrel.

I went through the testing and upping regulator pressure experiments just because I was asked by multiple people to do so. And since I did the testing I shared the findings. There's a point at which more reg pressure gains nothing and I arrived at and documented that point.

The .177 Carbine configuration of the Ghost is a pellet shooter. And it does that quite well. It is also an extremely compact package. It'd be perfect for barn pesting or shooting out of a blind or vehicle where overall length of the gun is a factor. And that's the compromise of it being short, maximum energy is limited when compared to longer barrels.

There's also the question of slugs simply being a crappy projectile. I've tested them from many of the best airguns that exist, and have always been disappointed with their accuracy. If you want precision in a small bore airgun then you shoot pellets. Simple as that.

With what I've been told about the potential power output of the valve in the Ghosts, I predict it'll be an eye opener to see how much more energy can be achieved from a full length .22 barrel than from a 17 inch .177. We'll know soon enough since there's a full length .22 barrel and probe sitting in my gun room.

 

[Franklink]

I don't think people realize just how compact the Carbine config of the Ghost is, partly b/c there's so few out in the wild and mostly b/c Soren and I haven't really focused on that aspect much.

So I just took some photos.

The first one here is the .177/17 inch barrel next to the .22/23inch.

The last one is with a 14mmx1mm adaptor to 1/2x20 and a short little Hugget Atom moderator. OAL
Is just about 27.5inchs. Aesthetics could be cleaned up by removing the rear shroud cap if this wasn't just for visualization purposes.

In summary, the Ghost Carbine is COMPACT.