Brocock TAC pistol at AOA

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Sawney Bean

Sawney Bean

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Oct 21, 2023
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Tacoma, Washington, USA
There's one for sale there now. These things have fascinated me for years, but I've already exceeded my airgun spending for the month due to other used guns they had for sale.

For those of you that aren't familiar these were extremely realistic replicas that fired precharged air cartridges. They were quite popular in the UK until the government there banned them.
 
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markhooper said:
I had the brocock 522 snub nose.. I think 3 sets of reloads and the slim Jim.. 22 caliber..I loved that gun.. but had to sell years ago 😔..
I think it shot around 500 fps with RWS domes..
Mark
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500 fps in .22 from a replica pistol is really impressive. That must have been an export model. I imagine the difference would either be in the cartridges or in the pump.
 
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Sawney Bean said:
500 fps in .22 from a replica pistol is really impressive. That must have been an export model. I imagine the difference would either be in the cartridges or in the pump.
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yes it was imported by spot on air.. it had the side of the cylinder turned out so it would be impossible to convert it back to firearm.. probably 1/2" wide about where it would transition from cartridge to lead if it was a firearm, hopefully I explained it correctly.. other models that I have seen like the one that AOA had didn't have the side turned out and I think it was their downfall.. it looked different but I thought it was nice, I'll try to attach a picture of it from the brochure pack I have..
it was a pain when I first got it.. blowing o rings and leaking down.. but I replaced them with the top of the line industrial o rings,I think 90* and then it was great pump them up and they would hold until you shot it.. the same day or months later..
I wish I still had it and connections to a good CNC machine shop, get a batch of cartridges made from stainless steel..
I had the 22 caliber, always wanted the single six and the golden boy lever action, but it didn't come out when I had it.. and later on when I tried finding out about them brocock was out of business..
later on when I got back into airguns I saw that brocock was back in business but I have been disappointed that they haven't brought back the TAC cartridge line at least for the USA..I understand it's still outlawed over there but a lot of things we have are illegal there.
I have even thought if I could get ahold of a cartridge and find a CNC machine shop that would make a batch, then get real firearms and convert them to air guns..it would just be a matter of rebarreled in a 357 single six and lever action
Mark

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markhooper said:
yes it was imported by spot on air.. it had the side of the cylinder turned out so it would be impossible to convert it back to firearm.. probably 1/2" wide about where it would transition from cartridge to lead if it was a firearm, hopefully I explained it correctly.. other models that I have seen like the one that AOA had didn't have the side turned out and I think it was their downfall.. it looked different but I thought it was nice, I'll try to attach a picture of it from the brochure pack I have..
it was a pain when I first got it.. blowing o rings and leaking down.. but I replaced them with the top of the line industrial o rings,I think 90* and then it was great pump them up and they would hold until you shot it.. the same day or months later..
I wish I still had it and connections to a good CNC machine shop, get a batch of cartridges made from stainless steel..
I had the 22 caliber, always wanted the single six and the golden boy lever action, but it didn't come out when I had it.. and later on when I tried finding out about them brocock was out of business..
later on when I got back into airguns I saw that brocock was back in business but I have been disappointed that they haven't brought back the TAC cartridge line at least for the USA..I understand it's still outlawed over there but a lot of things we have are illegal there.
I have even thought if I could get ahold of a cartridge and find a CNC machine shop that would make a batch, then get real firearms and convert them to air guns..it would just be a matter of rebarreled in a 357 single six and lever action
Mark

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One of the reasons I jumped at this purchase was because I’m fascinated by the history of these guns, and the information online is spotty at best. Specifically, I’m curious about what structural differences—if any—other then bore diameter, the Brocock Orion 6 has from the original Weihrauch .38 firearm? Obviously I’m not going to FAFO (I’ll stick with the real thing lol) but I am going to take a really close look. It’s curious to me that Brocock would have essentially sold a functioning revolver as an airgun with the knowledge that conversion was going to be so attractive to a lot of people in the UK. And I can’t figure out if all the conflicting information online about illegal conversions is just urban legend or rooted in fact.
 
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MLE said:
One of the reasons I jumped at this purchase was because I’m fascinated by the history of these guns, and the information online is spotty at best. Specifically, I’m curious about what structural differences—if any—other then bore diameter, the Brocock Orion 6 has from the original Weihrauch .38 firearm? Obviously I’m not going to FAFO (I’ll stick with the real thing lol) but I am going to take a really close look. It’s curious to me that Brocock would have essentially sold a functioning revolver as an airgun with the knowledge that conversion was going to be so attractive to a lot of people in the UK. And I can’t figure out if all the conflicting information online about illegal conversions is just urban legend or rooted in fact.
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so I actually do know a bit about what you are saying..on my revolver it was a actual firearm except for the smaller barrel bore, and turned out cylinder, and one other important detail, the firing pin is squared on the end.. so a special firing pin that was flat on the end to depress the valve on the cartridges..
I think for prevention of what actually happened it could have all been prevented of they would have been satisfied with having the side turned out.. because to convert that you would have to replace the revolving chamber and the time the new one..
so the way that the crime was committed was to use a revolver that didn't have the side turned out and replaced the firing pin with a round one and a larger barrel bore.. they actually did the barrel when they made the illegal firearms out of them by just crudely drilling it out.
the criminal didn't care about accuracy, just about breaking the law.. it seems to me that brocock could have gotten back to turning the sides out like mine and been ok . but everything got out of hand and then it was too late.
I posted some more pictures.. I'll have to double check, I'm not sure if I posted the end field rifle,I think it was called but it used a larger cartridge and had more power..
I'll try to check back through the pictures..
I didn't understand what you meant by fafo but I assume that you meant something about the conversion process..
I'm definitely not interested in converting air to powder.. but I have given it a lot of thought about getting ahold of a cartridge somehow and converting firearms into airguns permanently making them airguns.. so to explain on a lever action you could easily bore view holes in the side of the action similar to turning out the side of the cylinder and the then it wouldn't be practical for it to ever fire gunpowder cartridges again..
plus it would be rebarreled to 177 or 22 caliber.
Mark
 
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there's another thread somewhere on the forum of a guy over there that had made semi auto AR-15 and like 1911 guns that used the same cartridges as the 177 caliber you have.. I found it very interesting.. I don't know if they still exist or if he's still around, because he got them permitted but only for him and his lifetime.. after that they have to be destroyed..I guess he can't even transfer them out of the country to where it's legal to own them.. kind of the end of the line for very interesting air guns..
if you want to talk more about them, you can PM me and I'll share what I know about them..
also if you need to rebuild the cartridges it takes some special tools..
Mark
 
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here's the picture of the rifle, it shot the middle cartridge .. I don't have any information on the larger cartridge to the left..
I was very interested in the aea defender and cartridges but they work a bit different.. apparently they used a burst disc and the firing pin puncture it and it has to be replaced every time..
I can't find any parts diagram or breakdown or even a diagram on how that cartridge works..I got discouraged with them after watching several reviews and they misfired or totally failed to work..best I could guess is they leaked down the air..
I think the brocock BAC or TAC cartridges are and were a much better design..
they even had a fill station to charge 6 at a time with scuba tank..
would be pretty nice to be able to get them.. fill 6 at a time on the compressor would probably take less than a minute..
the hand pump was 8-10 pumps like a Benjamin pump up
Mark
 
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sorry I somehow didn't get this picture attached previously.
in case there's any doubt, I'm really interested in this type of replica gun..I think it was a great design that could have even been scaled up to like a 12 gauge shell to shoot maybe 28 gauge shotgun cartridges..
it's basically a PCP cartridge that dumps all the air when fired..
the original o rings were terrible and I think that's one major reason why they were not so popular here in America. they were pretty expensive back in the day too .. and at current prices the kit with just one set of cartridges and the gun and pump would probably retail for at least $1500..
I think I paid around $500 for the gun kit and enough extra cartridges for two reloads.. so like 15 total cartridges..
that was 35+ years ago and before they did the lever actions.. they also around the time of the lever actions had pietta make replica of the Colt Navy and the Colt SAA and the Henry Golden boy and 1895? Winchester..
Mark

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WoodWelder said:
I was unaware Brocock made pistols, they look great!
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unfortunately it's not the current brocock that we all know.. the original brocock went out of business when they were outlawed over there and then more recently reformed a company into the current brocock brand we all know..
honestly I keep watching and hoping the current brocock company brings back the old line..
but I think it is pretty unlikely..
there's also another cartridge system that AEA defender uses I don't think it is very good.. you have to replace a burst disc every time you reload.. but I did see that they just came out with a mini one that is about the size of a 410 to use in a derringer..I forgot what company it is but it's just a mini of the defender cartridge.. was on one of the air gun review channel
Mark
 
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markhooper said:
here's the picture of the rifle, it shot the middle cartridge .. I don't have any information on the larger cartridge to the left..
I was very interested in the aea defender and cartridges but they work a bit different.. apparently they used a burst disc and the firing pin puncture it and it has to be replaced every time..
I can't find any parts diagram or breakdown or even a diagram on how that cartridge works..I got discouraged with them after watching several reviews and they misfired or totally failed to work..best I could guess is they leaked down the air..
I think the brocock BAC or TAC cartridges are and were a much better design..
they even had a fill station to charge 6 at a time with scuba tank..
would be pretty nice to be able to get them.. fill 6 at a time on the compressor would probably take less than a minute..
the hand pump was 8-10 pumps like a Benjamin pump up
Mark
Click to expand...
I saw a diagram or a gif of the AEA burst disc system somewhere. Basically there’s a valve that looks a bit like a balanced valve in there and when you burst the disc the pressure inside pushes it towards the rear, which simultaneously closes off the opening at the rear while opening the valve at the front. It’s a little hard to explain, but it’s quite simple and you’d grasp the concept in a few seconds if I had a diagram.
 
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Sawney Bean said:
I saw a diagram or a gif of the AEA burst disc system somewhere. Basically there’s a valve that looks a bit like a balanced valve in there and when you burst the disc the pressure inside pushes it towards the rear, which simultaneously closes off the opening at the rear while opening the valve at the front. It’s a little hard to explain, but it’s quite simple and you’d grasp the concept in a few seconds if I had a diagram.
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you explained it perfectly and I understand.. the brocock was a basically knock open valve.. very simple..I think 3 o rings and only one that kept blowing was the main valve where it opened.. there's another thread on here somewhere that has a picture diagram of the cartridge..or you can search Google for brocock BAC or TAC cartridge and see how it looks..
mine didn't have the spring inside.. so three piece housing, valve, retainer and firing pin connector..I think if I remember correctly 3 pieces inside, not counting 3 o rings..
had a hat,cone shaped tool for putting the o rings on..
Mark
 
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I really think the whole air cartridge concept has a lot of potential. Using it we could basically adapt firearms designs to run on air. I’m sure that the cartridge dimensions, spring tensions, bore sizes and many other things would have to be redesigned to accommodate the vastly different pressures involved, but who hasn’t looked at those AEA Harpoon cartridges and wondered if they could used in a pump action shotgun or a decent side by side?

It also makes me wonder about higher pressures in the future. It seems like the cartridges themselves are what limits the pressures involved.

Then there’s safety. As neat an idea as it is, I wouldn’t want to be carrying around a pocket full of 5000 psi cartridges.
 
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