HW/Weihrauch Broken Spring

[Croxton63]

The short questions: When springs break is it subtle or dramatic? Do they often look like the one below? If not and you have some examples please post them to satiate my curiosity, and perhaps help educate newbies like me.

The background: I bought a HW50s .177 in the late fall and fitted a Hawke air max 2-7 x 32. Then a fellow member, Ugly John, suggested I get a chrono which I did. The gun chrono’d at 9.5-10 ft lbs. It seemed to shoot fairly well, but every now and then I’d hear a metallic click which made me wonder if I was imagining something. The new gun “twang” went away and i thought it had settled down. Nonetheless, after watching a bunch of videos and seeing a few posts i thought I’d set myself up with winter projects which may seem like a morning’s work to you experienced folks. I didn’t want to start breaking it apart until I’d got all the tools for the job.
Last week I started at it. When I opened the gun I found the spring broken, which surprised me because it was shooting quite well. It seemed that after it broke the longer piece wrapped itself around the shorter piece. The inside of the tube looked pretty clean with no gouging, just a few light scratches.
I’ll post a few photos of the broken spring and the new TBT spring kit side by side - it was buying the new kit which prompted me to open the gun up.

Followed by a photo of the 10 shot chrony string showing its performance with a broken spring.

 

[JP806TX]

For me, most of mine failed without warning. My experience has been with my Tx200. Shooting under 12 FPE. 8.44 grain
I shoot competition Field Target.
Hector M suggested regular monitoring with a chrono.
He said prior to failure most spring would display some erratic numbers.

Haven't had the chance to document one yet.
Life span of the spring in my primary gun is going on 1.5 years? close to 7-8K shots? I just started documenting ... Just waiting and watching
The back up spring is already broken in and ready to go.

 

[JohnL57]

I have an R9/HW95 that had a broken spring at around 6000 shots. It still shot accurately but would not sink a pellet into a 2x4. I did start hearing noises during the cocking cycle. Upon disassembly, it turned out the spring was in 7 pieces. I no longer have pics, but with the installation of Vortek kit it's shooting strongly again.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Yes exactly like that. They break at the trigger end a couple coils up and hump over in the piston. Yours broke a bit farther up the spring.

The guide was really sloppy. Nowhere near in contact with the unloaded spring. And lots of play up inside the piston.

This is my second factory HW spring in 4k shots. Both were pretty much identical and both failed about 1000-1500 shots.

 

[Croxton63]

Thanks for the explanation. I love that jig by the way. That would have made getting the spring in and out a lot easier. That’s something I’ll have to make.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Thanks for the explanation. I love that jig by the way. That would have made getting the spring in and out a lot easier. That’s something I’ll have to make.

Thanks! I love that jig!

It's a scrap of 3/8" plywood for a base and a couple pine 2x2's for push rods. I set the whole mess in a bar clamp. Easy as pie.

I cut a couple maple "dogs" that fit each rifle. They fit in a joint in the push rods. I have a set of maple blocks to adapt the jig to fit several rifles. It's easy to cut an adapter block to fit just about anything perfectly. Just dog it in there with some snug fitting hardwood.

Your replacement spring will last much longer and you will be happy. My HW95 shoots dandy after I replaced the spring.

I bet your new spring works great. It's a beautiful thing and it looks like the guide and top hat are snug.

Did you get a dab of Bumslide to grease it up with?

 

[marflow 777]

it is my assumption that many rifle get shot after a spring breaks and the shooter has no clue
i also think the vast majority of shooters do not have a chronograph to check
and like yours the broken spring ends just screws itself around the spring body
i would think cocking effort would be the key but ?????

 

[Croxton63]

Thanks! I love that jig!

It's a scrap of 3/8" plywood for a base and a couple pine 2x2's for push rods. I set the whole mess in a bar clamp. Easy as pie.

I cut a couple maple "dogs" that fit each rifle. They fit in a joint in the push rods. I have a set of maple blocks to adapt the jig to fit several rifles. It's easy to cut an adapter block to fit just about anything perfectly. Just dog it in there with some snug fitting hardwood.

View attachment 519170

Your replacement spring will last much longer and you will be happy. My HW95 shoots dandy after I replaced the spring.

I bet your new spring works great. It's a beautiful thing and it looks like the guide and top hat are snug.

Did you get a dab of Bumslide to grease it up with?

Thanks for the explanation. I did use the Bumslide. I had my laptop open and followed the TBT videos. I didn’t do the anti-galling fix because I got lucky in that regard - no marks or scrapes on the gun where the surfaces interact. I have a set of bar clamps I’m not using. I’ll take one and mimic your design. I also took advantage of this forum’s classifieds and got a Beeman HW95 from Alsky - a great person to do business with. I figured it would be a good idea to have a back-up gun if something blows up with this one.

 

[Croxton63]

it is my assumption that many rifle get shot after a spring breaks and the shooter has no clue
i also think the vast majority of shooters do not have a chronograph to check
and like yours the broken spring ends just screws itself around the spring body
i would think cocking effort would be the key but ?????

I see that many of the folks on this forum have multiple guns and shoot them a lot which I expect would give them the experience to make comparisons by feel. I bet you’re right, if I hadn’t taken it apart I wouldn’t have known there was a problem. I didn’t have a baseline-spring- intact set of chrono results and the experience to know what to expect.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

it is my assumption that many rifle get shot after a spring breaks and the shooter has no clue
i also think the vast majority of shooters do not have a chronograph to check
and like yours the broken spring ends just screws itself around the spring body
i would think cocking effort would be the key but ?????

I've jokenly said when my HW shoots it's best it's fixing to ether break the spring or it already broken ..lol

I most times can catch a slight snap or click when cocking and clue in broke or just broke it . Then a slight pot drop then chrony a 100fps loss +/-.. lol.. still just a small sight adjustment up and it's still shooting spot on target .

Like you said if you just did not know you'd just keep on shooting it it can't ..lol

 

[Mycapt65]

I see that many of the folks on this forum have multiple guns and shoot them a lot which I expect would give them the experience to make comparisons by feel. I bet you’re right, if I hadn’t taken it apart I wouldn’t have known there was a problem. I didn’t have a baseline-spring- intact set of chrono results and the experience to know what to expect.

Yeah if you shoot your guns alot you'll immediately know when a spring breaks. My first two Weihrauchs broke their springs the first summer i bought them. I didn't own a chrono and had no idea what was wrong. My 95 spring was broken in three pieces and my 30 in two. Both guns still shot pretty strong.

Now I shoot my guns enough i can tell exactly when a spring breaks. The beginning of the cocking stroke starts later or is easier and there's usually a tell tell click or crunch in the last half of the cocking stroke. This happened to my favorite 30 on my first full day of vacation in AR. The first crunch noise was followed by some real choice words. All my tools and air gun parts were 1200 miles NE. I used the wife's 30 for the duration of the trip.

My experience is the Weihrauchs springs stay strong right up until they break. Other springs like the Vortek will just go soft when they fail. The Weihrauch springs don't seem to last long but that may have to do with the excessive dieseling those guns usually experience new. Excessive dieseling is tough on a spring. Detonation (like the loud crack you get from dry firing) will greatly shorten the life of a spring. The only Vortek springs I've had break were on guns I accidentally dry fired.

 

[Temesvar]

New to air guns but have some experience with springs in molds. They get "tired" over use/time.
Just like everything else, there are better and not so much. Leaving the gun cocked repetedly
for longer periods of time will shorten springs life.
Wonder if anybody with aftermarket springs like TBT or Vortex had a better experience?

 

[A.G.R]

They all break at the rear guide.. Where is the rear washer on the new guide?

and eventually they all WILL break.

 

[Croxton63]

They all break at the rear guide.. Where is the rear washer on the new guide?

and eventually they all WILL break.

It was still in the box. Those components are back together. Later today I’ll get the trigger in and a stock on it.

 

[Croxton63]

They all break at the rear guide.. Where is the rear washer on the new guide?

and eventually they all WILL break.

It was still in the box. Everything is fitted and in the action.

 

[Mycapt65]

New to air guns but have some experience with springs in molds. They get "tired" over use/time.
Just like everything else, there are better and not so much. Leaving the gun cocked repetedly
for longer periods of time will shorten springs life.
Wonder if anybody with aftermarket springs like TBT or Vortex had a better experience?

I've had better luck with Vortek and ARH springs than Weihrauchs. I haven't used them, but the Titans have a good reputation. I know nothing of TBT springs.

I wouldn't recommend using a Weihrauch brand spring as center of a rebuild. They just don't last. IMO full kits from ARH or Vortek are a better solution when available.

 

[Temesvar]

I've had better luck with Vortek and ARH springs than Weihrauchs. I haven't used them, but the Titans have a good reputation. I know nothing of TBT springs.

I wouldn't recommend using a Weihrauch brand spring as center of a rebuild. They just don't last. IMO full kits from ARH or Vortek are a better solution when available.

Was hoping for that comment! Have ordered a Vortek kit.

 

[A.G.R]

Was hoping for that comment! Have ordered a Vortek kit.

For what gun ?.. you may have to do some fine tuning the cocking shoe to not gall. But once done they shoot well.

 

[Temesvar]

For what gun ?.. you may have to do some fine tuning the trigger shoe to not gall. But once done they shoot well.

HW 97. Trigger is good.

 

[A.G.R]

Not the trigger, I misspoke. The cocking shoes I meant. But the 97 ish mute as it has none. clean the old out well ..lube the outside of the comp tube and wipe after install ..