Broom Pusher's Words Never Die

[Ziabeam]

beeser's recent thread on wind flags reminded me of this;


One year at Camp Perry, an aged fellow sweeping out the Rodriguez Range target shed in the pitts asked me the folowing question...
"Which flag do you pay the most attention to... the one on the firing line, or the one nearest the targets... and why??


Thinking he was humbly trying to make sense of our universe, I proffered a confident reply;
... "The one nearest the target of course, the bullet is going slower, thusly more afflicted "


He assured me, in his experience, the wind at the firing line mattered most, a puff on the line and none in the pitts will change the projectile's entire journey.

As he began that reply, I began to form my defense, as he finished, words failed me... he knew right away his words had mattered.

From then on, assuredly, I became "that guy" who people asked... "What are you thinking of for wind?"

My answer was invariably based on the broom pusher's wisdom. 5 years later he found me at a Distinguished Shooter's Banquet in Quantico Virginia, and thanked me for not letting his words die. His broom had fooled me, his legacy as a National Champion, and mentor, no longer a mystery.

 

[nomojo65]

I agree with that 100%, it's even more vital with airguns, that pellet is moving very slow compared to a centerfire bullet!, more time in flight-more of an effect that early wind will have on the pellet.

 

[I_Like_Irons]

Was his first name Lones by chance? 

 

[Ziabeam]

"I_Like_Irons"Was his first name Lones by chance?

No but I was there when he turned 40... four decades ago... and watched a few rookies paint "Over the Hill" on his RV window with shoe polish. He won that match handily.

He (Lones) told me three or four years ago at the Shot Show in Vegas he'd never wish ill on my dad, but if my dad left this earth, he'd snatch my mother. Tell him that story, and he'll tell you who I am.

 

[Kim]

This may be true in theory but not in fact. ie, might not be true in all cases. At the range where I shoot there are sun-shades and other structures that affect wind near the bench. So in some conditions the flag nearest the bench is showing less wind than others out near the target.

FWIW I try to watch all the flags and make judgments (using sighters) about which conditions are good and how to hold for them.

 

[Ziabeam]

"Kim"This may be true in theory but not in fact. ie, might not be true in all cases. At the range where I shoot there are sun-shades and other structures that affect wind near the bench. So in some conditions the flag nearest the bench is showing less wind than others out near the target.

FWIW I try to watch all the flags and make judgments (using sighters) about which conditions are good and how to hold for them.

Very good !!!

On your range "observed wind " is duly ignored where obstructed. What you observe there can be applied on any range, before any sighter (if one is afforded).

Where the wind remains intact... it is not theoretical, it is fact.

The anecdote was about unobstructed wind in the following context;

Any wind ...great or small, near or far, fore or aft, left or right, has a larger factor nearest the firing point, and a diminishing quotient closer to the target.

 

[Guest]

"Ziabeam"
Where the wind remains intact... it is not theoretical, it is fact.

The anecdote was about unobstructed wind in the following context;

Any wind ...great or small, near or far, fore or aft, left or right, has a larger factor nearest the firing point, and a diminishing quotient closer to the target.

Have you ever seen a pellet break like a curve ball? That's not from wind at the muzzle. I shoot field target and the wind on the way to and at the target is just as if not slightly more important than at the muzzle. I don't get wind flags to use in the lanes though. I've seen pellets flying straight to the target get knocked sideways, up and down within yards of the kill zone many times, on many different courses. That's not to say wind at the muzzle is ignored, just not the end all of reading it.

 

[Ziabeam]

"Ziabeam"
...fact...

...unobstructed wind ...

Any wind .... near or far.....

John_in_Ma
....ever seen a curve ball? ... the wind on the way to and at the target is...more important than at the muzzle. just not the end all of reading it.

Yes !!
All wind matters !!

Enter the curve ball...
Fortunately pellets do not have laces, yet you are correct...
...wind which people either underestimate, overestimate, or fail to notice entirely, can seem (just as if not slightly)> "more important"... near or far...
...physics prevails either way... humoring our incredulous nature 

 

[Ziabeam]

"John_in_Ma"
.... I've seen pellets flying straight to the target get knocked sideways, up and down within yards of the kill zone many times, on many different courses....

Diablo shaped projectiles are a lot like kids...
...the further they get from home, the wilder they tend to be.

 

[Windmeister]

Yes, wind early in the trajectory always have more effect on POI than wind later on. As pointed out, obstructions or structures causing eddies and wind shear can cause uncommon trajectory effects as compared to normal wind.
The other two variants that will be hard to judge is tail/head wind, and not for the obvious (relative ground speed) but what the ground effect is, as well as structures, including your target holder. I find both equally evil. 
In head wind you will have to account for the pulsing and vertical shift in wind direction caused by the ground profile as well as any structures at least 100 yards past your target as it will affect the conditions down wind, i.e. where you are shooting. Best clue I can give here is to put any wind indicator close to the target as well as close to you, the one at the target is to let you know when and what the wind is doing sooner rather than later.
Tail wind is the same just in reverse.

 

[fuznut]

Think about it, a near muzzle wind will influence the projectile for far longer
than a near target can despite the slower speed.