N/A Bullpup Vs. Pistol

[beerthief]

SO , your saying a 42 inch traditional rifle but built like a bullpup with a long air tube and barrel ? that would be a long time to hold on target till the pellet leaves the muzzle .
OR are you thinking just a long air tube to the butt ? doesn't FX build something like that or Air Force ?

 

[jarmstrong]

top, SPA P15 bull pup w/21 " LW barrel 25 cal 54 ft/lb
middle, Zbroia Kozak compact semi bull, with 330 mm barrel, out dated model my daily shooter de-powered to about 20ft/lb 22 cal
bottom, HW44 pistol w/Rinks stock 22 cal all stock internally as to power settings, but aftermkt air cylinder with a picatinny support under it w/rubber cover and an old spook mod

 

[Dairyboy]

I find the Taipans to be very very quiet for a bullpup action wise. R5M are ear ringers so was the Vulcan 3 at least before depingers. Uragan wasn't bad but not as good as the Taipans. One could imagine how nice a carbine Taipan could have made.

 

[JungleShooter]

Matt,

you are not alone...!
Unless someone is just driving their truck up to a range (or shoots on their home range) — bullpups are just awesome!!

Because when the airgun must travel in check-in suitcases with the airlines, on overland busses, motorcycles, and hike in backpacks, and in sheaths camouflaged-for-anti-gun-people — then their reduced size while maintaining full power is just AWESOME!

● At 26" (66cm) my .22cal P1 shoots 18gr with 36FPE. No silencer needed.
● And the same length P2 in .25cal shoots the 34gr with 63FPE. It needs to wear a DFL Shogun, unless I'm out in the countryside.



A few years ago on AGN, I had a photo comparison of 40 bullpups, singing their praises, here:

40 Bullpups Photo Comparison Chart – For Size and Looks

UPDATED -- EXPANDED LIST!!! 40 Bullpups Photo Comparison Chart – For Size and Looks (the photo chart is at the end of this post) If we believe what’s in the internets..., then “a bullpup is a firearm* with its action and magazine behind the trigger. This creates shorter weapons in...

www.airgunnation.com

And back then, I complained about about Bloat Stocks in bullpups — stocks of bullpups that were unnecessarily long despite the fact that they were bullpups.
(That probably strikes a cord with you, Matt.)
Here:

Bullpup Butts(tocks) – Cut Them Off! – Why Are They Not Shorter?

Bullpup Butts(tocks) – Cut Them Off! – Why Are They Not Shorter? OK, I’m being serious here – WHY are the buttstocks of bullpups often so long? Disclaimer: Please, if you don’t like bullpups, that’s quite all right, but reading this thread probably is going to be a waste of your precious...

www.airgunnation.com

I just want to express my thankfulness:
Because — for my personal preferences, being
▪ bullpups,
▪ modernized guns (what some belittle at "tacticool"),
▪ highly sophisticated scope operations, and
▪ long range shooting
—
we live in the Golden Age of Airgunning!

Really.
I just have to look at old airgun magazine articles and forums to see what kind of guns and scopes and ammo were available just 10 years ago — and compare that to what we get to revel in today — and at prices often far below those from a decade ago (adjusted for inflation).
➠ The Golden Age.
Or is it Platinum?


I am very thankful that I stumbled into this airgunning rabbit hole just a few years ago. It's been a great slide down — and as far as I can tell, there is no bottom in sight.


Cheers,

Matthias

 

[JimD]

If you have not missed a shot with an bullpup due to the scope height you are not taking shots inside 20 yards on squirrels or other game. The approximately 1 inch greater bore to scope center line makes them shoot low close to 10 yards further away. It also helps them not shoot low further away. But it has caused me to miss multiple times on short shots. I've also remember to adjust and made those shots, of course.

I still prefer bullpups but the scope height is an issue for me at short range. I'd rather deal with the gun shooting low than carry around a gun a foot or more longer.

Another minor issue I notice mostly on my Caiman is the action noise. Since it's right next to my ear (I shoot from the left shoulder I suspect the Caiman is quieter for righties) I hear the spring twang for each shot. Not a big deal but I've never noticed it with my conventional rifles.

 

[JungleShooter]

The approximately 1 inch greater bore to scope center line makes them shoot low close to 10 yards further away.

Jim,

that is an interesting observation.

I was always under the impression that non-bullpup PCP's had the problem of scopes being mounted very high — because of the magazine sticking up so high....?
I might be wrong, though, I don't own a non-bullpup PCP.


Well, for comparison and to understand your argument:
➧ What are the typical scope hights you are shooting with?

➧ I just checked my bullpup profiles Strelok, and these are the scope heights I shoot with:
▪ 2.36" (6.0cm), scope with 50mm objective, with dovetail-to-picatinny adapter, with adjustable rings at 35 moa
▪ 2.05" (5.2cm), scope with 56mm objective

Matthias

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Jim,

that is an interesting observation.

I was always under the impression that non-bullpup PCP's had the problem of scopes being mounted very high — because of the magazine sticking up so high....?
I might be wrong, though, I don't own a non-bullpup PCP.


Well, for comparison and to understand your argument:
➧ What are the typical scope hights you are shooting with?

➧ I just checked my bullpup profiles Strelok, and these are the scope heights I shoot with:
▪ 2.36" (6.0cm), scope with 50mm objective, with dovetail-to-picatinny adapter, with adjustable rings at 35 moa
▪ 2.05" (5.2cm), scope with 56mm objective

Matthias

Jim is correct, back several years ago I got bit hard by the BullPup fever but soon realized that the scenario that Jim talked about is indeed real,
If I zero a standard rifle and a bullpup at 30 yards then while hunting I have a 10 yards shot opportunity the Bullpup POI will be way, way lower then the POI of the rifle and that is why ultimately I stopped hunting with Bullpups because I get those unexpected close range shot opportunities and in the heat of the battle ( getting suddenly into a situation with a wild boar at close range ) it's hard to remember to place the crosshairs way above your intended target.


What forces the greater scope hight on a Pup is the fact that your cheek weld is the action and if the pup has any kind of additional cheek rest it will force the scope even higher.


After hunting several decades in thick jungles and rainforests I found no practical advantage with a Bullpup vs a standard rifle and I definitely want to have that scope as close to the bore as possible for the reasons mentioned above.

Bullpups also aren't any lighter then standard rifles contrary to what many people believe, so to me for hunting I rather have a light carbine rather then a Pup anyday, .......I consider weight way more important then size.

 

[Dairyboy]

I think it really depends on the gun. My Taipan Long with 50mm scope is 2.25" scope height. Difference between that and my Evol Mini same scope and rings mounted as low as possible is around 1.95". It's only .21" difference at 10yds. So a pellet width difference as I shoot .22s. So I think it really depends on the bullpup. I too by the way mount scopes as close as I can to barrel

 

[Vetmx]

When I first got into bullpups, maybe 2015-16, I tried to mount my scope as low as possible. I adapted to the weirdness of a pup but could never adapt to a scope mounted too low. When I get any gun I throw the lowest or highest rings I have on it. I shoulder it with my eyes closed and get comfy. When I open my eyes I can tell what I need to do next. To be natural and comfortable, all my pups are in the 2.60-2.90” range. My traditional rifles, around 1.85”. Hold overs with them? Not in their vocabulary. So I try to avoid the short range stuff with my pups. I’m talking real hunting where there’s no time to do calculations and clicking or reticle gymnastics.

 

[Dairyboy]

When I first got into bullpups, maybe 2015-16, I tried to mount my scope as low as possible. I adapted to the weirdness of a pup but could never adapt to a scope mounted too low. When I get any gun I throw the lowest or highest rings I have on it. I shoulder it with my eyes closed and get comfy. When I open my eyes I can tell what I need to do next. To be natural and comfortable, all my pups are in the 2.60-2.90” range. My traditional rifles, around 1.85”. Hold overs with them? Not in their vocabulary. So I try to avoid the short range stuff with my pups. I’m talking real hunting where there’s no time to do calculations and clicking or reticle gymnastics.

Interesting. On my Taipan even with 2.35" scope height I had to add a cheek piece for it to feel comfortable otherwise the scope felt too high for my liking.

I also do "real" hunting and never use a range finder. Mainly just to sight in and verify my strelok data. I never knew it was a big deal to people but consider me enlightened to that. My shooting consists of birds, squirrels and rabbits and my rule of thumb was always aim top of head on fur or throat area on birds up close and ill always get them. The 1/4-1/3" difference between my bullpups or rifles don't make much difference to me on up close shots. But hey to each their own.

 

[Vetmx]

Interesting. On my Taipan even with 2.35" scope height I had to add a cheek piece for it to feel comfortable otherwise the scope felt too high for my liking.View attachment 472250 I also do "real" hunting and never use a range finder. Mainly just to sight in and verify my strelok data. I never knew it was a big deal to people but consider me enlightened to that. My shooting consists of birds, squirrels and rabbits and my rule of thumb was always aim top of head on fur or throat area on birds up close and ill always get them. The 1/4-1/3" difference between my bullpups or rifles don't make much difference to me on up close shots. But hey to each their own.

We all have different shaped heads and faces. A 2.35” isn’t bad for a bullpup. My best and still comfortable without a 20 MOA rail is my P15 at 2.39”. I would love to keep all mine in the sub 2.40 range. My Taipan w/o a 20 MOA rail is 2.60”. My face could let me mount it lower but I would have to get an offset butt bad like I did on my P15. It’s probably an over pickyness thing. Some guys just adapt better

 

[JimD]

The values I have in Chairgun for my Prod and Avenger, conventional rifles, is 1.5 inches. I am not sure how closely I measured this but the chairgun results match my shooting results pretty well. I have refined my results for my 3 P35s and it is 2.65 inches. Again it agrees with shooting results. I was pretty careful when I measured my Caiman and I got 2.67 inches. I use Westhunter one piece bases on my bullpups to make it easy to swap scopes around and they control the height more than the bell of the scope getting too close to the shroud. So maybe I could get the scope a little closer with different mounts but the bullpups cannot get to 1.5 inches.