What are the advantages / goals in buttoning a piston ? is it Shot cycle ?
N/A Buttoning ?
- Thread starter beerthief
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Sometimes I think folks do these things cause there board and got nothing better to do and can post they did it .. ( likes
)
I don't and shoot the loving hell out of this one r9 . Maybe I'd the bore was bad and I see scraping or a alignment issue .
Anyway seems a something to do cause you got nothing better to do ..lol
Just do one up and judge for yourself if it's a benefit or worth it . Everyone looks at things differently or hsa there opinion . Only you know from your own personal experience..
Good luck
) I don't and shoot the loving hell out of this one r9 . Maybe I'd the bore was bad and I see scraping or a alignment issue .
Anyway seems a something to do cause you got nothing better to do ..lol
Just do one up and judge for yourself if it's a benefit or worth it . Everyone looks at things differently or hsa there opinion . Only you know from your own personal experience..
Good luck
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That’s a very soft sale of bad information.. BUTTONING when done right will dead center the piston in the chamber ,never allowing the piston skirt to rub the walls which will eventually happen as springs weaken and bend in one direction.. it’s not if ,it’s when. The center rod is never dead centered on Hw pistons and a custom guide fitted and centered with buttons locks everything parallel with the chamber.Sometimes I think folks do these things cause there board and got nothing better to do and can post they did it .. ( likes
I don't and shoot the loving hell out of this one r9 . Maybe I'd the bore was bad and I see scraping or a alignment issue .
Anyway seems a something to do cause you got nothing better to do ..lol
Just do one up and judge for yourself if it's a benefit or worth it . Everyone looks at things differently or hsa there opinion . Only you know from your own personal experience..
Good luck
Is it going to make the gun shoot better ,yes pending the shooter stays consistent. It’s not a I’m bragging ordeal. It’s a fact.
. I just received an HW50 , new in the box . Shot a few pellets and it is everything people say it is .(a very good experience ) SO i am thinking about finding a tuner that will do a FULL polishing parts and buttoning Job on this gun . Like Motorhead did on his own HW30 . ( hint hint ?)Sometimes I think folks do these things cause there board and got nothing better to do and can post they did it .. ( likes
I don't and shoot the loving hell out of this one r9 . Maybe I'd the bore was bad and I see scraping or a alignment issue .
Anyway seems a something to do cause you got nothing better to do ..lol
Just do one up and judge for yourself if it's a benefit or worth it . Everyone looks at things differently or hsa there opinion . Only you know from your own personal experience..
Good luck
Upvote 0
ThankyouThat’s a very soft sale of bad information.. BUTTONING when done right will dead center the piston in the chamber ,never allowing the piston skirt to rub the walls which will eventually happen as springs weaken and bend in one direction.. it’s not if ,it’s when. The center rod is never dead centered on Hw pistons and a custom guide fitted and centered with buttons locks everything parallel with the chamber.
Is it going to make the gun shoot better ,yes pending the shooter stays consistent. It’s not a I’m bragging ordeal. It’s a fact.
Stan in KY .
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Hint hint .. please explain ..lol
P.s..
Oh "SO i am thinking about finding a tuner ". Ok then your not going to do the work . I find folks know more on what I want the me .. man what's that going to cost ? $$
Send it to motorhead or that Jon in pee a .. lol.
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Well I don't own any break barrels, they're a completely different animal. But my recent buttoning job on the compression tube and piston on my 97K, did improve it. The cocking and closing is smooth with no play, seems a more solid lock up. The shot cycle is dead and straight back. Now, I've shot it for years without any problems, but when I look at the wear marks on top of the compression tube mainly in the rear, but some on the front. Also the piston body had wear marks. I decided it would benefit from buttoning. I should've done it long ago, it does take some time and work to do it right. Time will tell, but my 97K is shooting really well after the buttoning job.
Does it have to be done, no. Will it benefit from doing it, yes.
Air Arms, Vmach, Venom wouldn't go to the trouble of doing this if it had no benefit. Look at any of the serious tuners from back in the day that were looking to get all they could get out of a piston gun, they were buttoning them among a long list of other modifications.
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I'm thinking it's like a piston skirt on an engine. If it's too loose the skirt galls against the piston wall. If there is the correct amount of clearance it will work forever.
The buttons insure a correct fit with the bore on the tail of the piston. If that is a problem then I guess buttons are the solution.
Getting the working parts to fit and operate perfectly is great. Some guys really focus on those details. A perfectly tuned air rifle is really important to some shooters. Those guys need buttons!
The buttons insure a correct fit with the bore on the tail of the piston. If that is a problem then I guess buttons are the solution.
Getting the working parts to fit and operate perfectly is great. Some guys really focus on those details. A perfectly tuned air rifle is really important to some shooters. Those guys need buttons!
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I sent my HW97 to john in PA and just said i wanted around 11 FPE and the smoothest shot And that is the way it came back very smooth and tight @ 11.6 FPE . I have no idea exactly what he did . That was long ago and thousands of pellets ago , still a magnificent gun .
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John did my D34. It shoots great. Smooth as glass. It's not as accurate as my untuned hw97 but the shot cycle is better by far.
He knows what he's doing. If a piston needs buttoning he's the guy to button it.
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I have had a couple guns tuned by pros that buttoned the pistons. I also own a few where I've done it myself with a drop in kit. There is a difference with buttoning that I notice, but it is not substantial.
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Great post. Unknown to me. This makes a lot of sense. Controlling the friction. I like it. When I sharped ice skates deepth of the cut ( friction ) made a HUGE difference in gliding, stopping, turning and holding an edge.
Looking forward to opening the Venum to see.
Bustachip posted a procedure a short ago, but it didn’t completely sink in. Is there a mini mill to do this easier than a drill press? Would like to set up an assembly line and include when changing the spring and piston. Crow
Looking forward to opening the Venum to see.
Bustachip posted a procedure a short ago, but it didn’t completely sink in. Is there a mini mill to do this easier than a drill press? Would like to set up an assembly line and include when changing the spring and piston. Crow
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I see the little button kits you glue on and turn down for a perfect fit.
I also see where guys mill a little dimple in the piston and put a button in the recess.
It seems trapping that button in a machined recess would be the best way to do it.
I've also seen where guys machine a groove in the piston tail and put an o-ring around it. If the bore is true that seems an even better solution than buttons.
I also see where guys mill a little dimple in the piston and put a button in the recess.
It seems trapping that button in a machined recess would be the best way to do it.
I've also seen where guys machine a groove in the piston tail and put an o-ring around it. If the bore is true that seems an even better solution than buttons.
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Yes I considered machining a groove in the tail of the compression tube like Air Arms does it. After examining the compression tube most of the wear is on the top, opposite of the cocking slot, So I went with three buttons on the wear areas, as well as one on top, right behind where the loading port is, then four on the bottom, two on the back and two near the front. You have to place them where they don't interfere with the cocking slot or the loading port.
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A mini mill would be better than a drill press, also, most drill presses the RPM's will be too fast. I've been wanting to get a mini mill for some time, but haven't done it yet. I do have two nice drill presses though, that are capable of low RPM's. You will also need a lathe in order to turn to size for a correct fit, a 4 jaw chuck so you can indicate the runout before turning, depending on how accurate you want it, I suppose it could be done with a 3 jaw scroll chuck, 4 jaw chuck should have a bigger thru bore. Also a small lathe like a 7x something won't have a big enough spindle bore to allow you to insert the piston or compression tube, so it's not hanging out a mile. I have a 10x22 lathe with a 6" four jaw chuck that has room to insert the piston or compression tube. There are other ways of doing it, but to me this is the easiest. Need to do your homework before buying anything.
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Gotcha.
Is the wear on the comp tube a result of firing or cocking?
It seems to me the cocking action would be more likely to put lateral force on the comp tube than the shot itself. Especially on a rifle like the HW97 with a sliding tube?
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Also with compression tube guns the piston will only need buttons on the front of the piston, because when it's cocked the rear of the piston hangs out of the compression tube.
You see I've only got two on top and four on the bottom of the piston, and they're at the front. When cocked no button is hanging out of the compression tube. and they don't interfere with the cocking slot. A break barrel piston I suppose, you would put buttons on the rear of the piston, as the heavy wear would be on top opposite of the cocking slot.
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Compression tube wear is from cocking and mainly on top opposite the cocking slot. The piston wear is from firing and rubbing the inside of the compression tube.
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"Well I don't own any break barrels, they're a completely different animal. But my recent buttoning job on the compression tube and piston on my 97K, did improve it." sorry but a 97 Is a break barrel ! same mechanism just uses a cocking lever instead of a barrel lever .Well I don't own any break barrels, they're a completely different animal. But my recent buttoning job on the compression tube and piston on my 97K, did improve it. The cocking and closing is smooth with no play, seems a more solid lock up. The shot cycle is dead and straight back. Now, I've shot it for years without any problems, but when I look at the wear marks on top of the compression tube mainly in the rear, but some on the front. Also the piston body had wear marks. I decided it would benefit from buttoning. I should've done it long ago, it does take some time and work to do it right. Time will tell, but my 97K is shooting really well after the buttoning job.
Does it have to be done, no. Will it benefit from doing it, yes.View attachment 502198
Air Arms, Vmach, Venom wouldn't go to the trouble of doing this if it had no benefit. Look at any of the serious tuners from back in the day that were looking to get all they could get out of a piston gun, they were buttoning them among a long list of other modifications.
Upvote 0