N/A Buttoning ?

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beerthief said:
"Well I don't own any break barrels, they're a completely different animal. But my recent buttoning job on the compression tube and piston on my 97K, did improve it." sorry but a 97 Is a break barrel ! same mechanism just uses a cocking lever instead of a barrel lever .
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The HW97 is a fixed barrel with a sliding compression tube. It's definitely not a break barrel. They are both types of springers.

There are similarities for sure. But the cocking linkage on the 97 not only cocks the spring but holds the comp tube against the breech seal before the shot. Its much different in design and function than a breakbarrel action.

I think we can all agree what a breakbarrel is. And I thought we could all agree that a fixed barrel isn't a break barrel. I can't imagine the need for debating such a premise.
 
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beerthief said:
"Well I don't own any break barrels, they're a completely different animal. But my recent buttoning job on the compression tube and piston on my 97K, did improve it." sorry but a 97 Is a break barrel ! same mechanism just uses a cocking lever instead of a barrel lever .
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whoa there THIEF,,,
95 is a break barrel the 97 is a fixed barrel with underlever
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tangerines are not naval oranges,,, same but different
 
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Bedrock Bob said:
The HW97 is a fixed barrel with a sliding compression tube. It's definitely not a break barrel. They are both types of springers.

There are similarities for sure. But the cocking linkage on the 97 not only cocks the spring but holds the comp tube against the breech seal before the shot. Its much different in design and function than a breakbarrel action.

I think we can all agree what a breakbarrel is. And I thought we could all agree that a fixed barrel isn't a break barrel. I can't imagine the need for debating such a premise.
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I was speaking about the differences in the pistons and how they're buttoned.
 
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I am saying they both use a lever to compress a spring which in turn pushes a piston to compress air to fire the pellet . One uses a separate lever to work the spring the other uses the barrel to do the same action . they are both springers, one is more complicated involving more parts to accomplish the same result .
 
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beerthief said:
" sorry but a 97 Is a break barrel ! same mechanism just uses a cocking lever instead of a barrel lever .
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O.k., I guess I misunderstood your post. Sometimes it's hard to write what you mean and to read what is meant.

Still, in the posts above its mentioned you button a 97 piston at the front because the tail hangs out of the bore at full compression. A breakbarrel would be buttoned at the rear because the comp tube is much longer.

At least that is how I understood the posts. I may have misinterpreted that too....

Do you button a sliding breech piston in the same location as you button a breakbarrel?

I just want to make sure I'm understanding it and it seems to conflict. I'm not planning on buttoning anything but I am interested in the nuances of how the rifles work.

Agreed that they are both spring piston rifles that use a lever to compress a spring. It was your statement "the 97 is a breakbarrel !" that threw me off. That means something completely different in my very limited experience.
 
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beerthief said:
I am saying they both use a lever to compress a spring which in turn pushes a piston to compress air to fire the pellet . One uses a separate lever to work the spring the other uses the barrel to do the same action . they are both springers, one is more complicated involving more parts to accomplish the same result .
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Yes that a given. But the pistons will be buttoned differently, of course they'll operate similarly.
 
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crowski said:
Great post. Unknown to me. This makes a lot of sense. Controlling the friction. I like it. When I sharped ice skates deepth of the cut ( friction ) made a HUGE difference in gliding, stopping, turning and holding an edge.
Looking forward to opening the Venum to see.
Bustachip posted a procedure a short ago, but it didn’t completely sink in. Is there a mini mill to do this easier than a drill press? Would like to set up an assembly line and include when changing the spring and piston. Crow
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Dave, I have buttoned the pistons on all my Weihrauch springers. No question, makes them smoother cocking with a better shot cycle. You’ll loose about 10 -25 fps off your velocity, but that’s the only downside.

Drilling the piston and inserting delrin buttons is the best way to go, but much more work.
I have used Jim Macarri (ARH) glue on buttons for years. If you follow his instructions, they work great. The hardest part is getting them past the receiver cut outs unscathed.

Once in the the piston chamber, they won’t come off.
 
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SpiralGroove said:
Dave, I have buttoned the pistons on all my Weihrauch springers. No question, makes them smoother cocking with a better shot cycle. You’ll loose about 10 -25 fps off your velocity, but that’s he not downside.

Drilling the piston an inserting delrin buttons is the best way to go, but much more work.
I have used Jim Macarri (ARH) glue on buttons for years. If you follow his instructions, they work great. The hardest part is getting them past the receiver cut outs unscathed.

Once in the the piston chamber, they won’t come off.
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I’ve had several guns that people sent with jammed triggers from them coming off.. cyanocrilyte does not like heat and will fail.. has yours. Sounds like no.. in the big picture ,you are better at cleaning and prepping for them it sounds like but most they will come off.
 
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jarmstrong said:
I tried the ARH buttons, but was unsuccessful with getting them to stick/stay, guess I failed to prep properly
the HW 50s has a little twang left in her, that I need to extinguish,,, maybe this winter, while I have it apart, I will try again with buttons but will inset a button instead of super glue on buttons
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Twang is loose fitting guides or Over sprung gun… buttons will help vibration felt

ring like air arms is best. But not always do able.
 
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What I have done to get them to stay, is to sand the piston where you will apply with 200 grit caborundum. Then clean off with alcohol, damp the correct side of the button with alcohol and wait for it to dry. Then using fresh loc-tite super glue (not gel) apply the buttons.

I put teflon (plumbers tape) over my finger and press/hold for 45 seconds.
I glue all 6 buttons on and then chuck the latch rod in my lathe and sand/shave down the buttons for a good fit spinning the piston at a decent rpm. I usually use 400-1000 grit paper. I probably go through 7 or 8 buttons to get 6 to adhere well.

Definitely a pain, but so worth it😎.
 
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SpiralGroove said:
Dave, I have buttoned the pistons on all my Weihrauch springers. No question, makes them smoother cocking with a better shot cycle. You’ll loose about 10 -25 fps off your velocity, but that’s the only downside.

Drilling the piston an inserting delrin buttons is the best way to go, but much more work.
I have used Jim Macarri (ARH) glue on buttons for years. If you follow his instructions, they work great. The hardest part is getting them past the receiver cut outs unscathed.

Once in the the piston chamber, they won’t come off.
Click to expand...
I didn't loose any velocity with my 97K after installing the buttons, maybe I got lucky.
 
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bustachip said:
I didn't loose any velocity with my 97K after installing the buttons, maybe I got lucky.
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You must have used the lucky buttons!

The inletting sure looks like the way to go. And I can see how it would be really nice on a sliding tube gun. Especially the cocking with the buttons on the tube.
 
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SpiralGroove said:
Dave, I have buttoned the pistons on all my Weihrauch springers. No question, makes them smoother cocking with a better shot cycle. You’ll loose about 10 -25 fps off your velocity, but that’s he not downside.

Drilling the piston an inserting delrin buttons is the best way to go, but much more work.
I have used Jim Macarri (ARH) glue on buttons for years. If you follow his instructions, they work great. The hardest part is getting them past the receiver cut outs unscathed.

Once in the the piston chamber, they won’t come off.
Click to expand...
Hey Kirk thanks for the wake-up call.
Probably talking without thinking. I’d love to get the machines, the only thing stopping me realistically is time. Have the capability to do so. Just greedy with shooting time these days. And I’m a tool nut.
I like the sounds of buttoning, it makes sense. Would like to get a 97 done to compare. Again thanks Crow
PS the muzzle ends are fantastic and are going to do their job again this winter.
 
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